�Can we trust Huawei?�

The headline of a Panorama programme at 8:30 tonight. That link comes from this article, which does add a little to what we already know about the network security questions.

Whether the programme will be any good I don�t know. I have my doubts, but I think the article is worth a read.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 08-Apr-19 10:32:47)

Oh dear me it will affecting all Huawei cabinets in UK? What is Openreach going to do about it.

Not just cabinets, the headends too, thats FTTP as well!!!!
Guess that just leaves Nokia?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Oh dear me it will affecting all Huawei cabinets in UK? What is Openreach going to do about it.

Nothing - unless ordered by the gov they won't go through the nightmare of even trying to extract H from their network. Though I think perhaps they should from a sec perspective.

Oh dear not looking good for Openreach. I bet they are watching it careful tonight and could stopped all Huawei for future use.

I bet they are watching it careful tonight and could stopped all Huawei for future use

I doubt it

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I bet they are watching it careful tonight and could stopped all Huawei for future use

I doubt it

Unless or until they have a liability consequence for using the hardware and its misused why would they care.

They are talking about 5G radio kit. BT has already removed Huawei kit from EE's core and never used it in the 'fixed line' core.

FTTP / FTTC is only the edge and therefore a different element.

There is a view that says the Core is important as this can affect the complete network whilst the edge elements only effect individual customers and everything is configured and routed through more secure 'core' equipment so can only do what the core allows.

That is pretty much how I understand it kitcat . Nothing at all to do with Huawei cabinets. Possibly not a problem for 5G masts either though I'm less sure of that.

Re the core network AUIU there is still some other Huawei kit, nothing to do with the EE stuff you mention, in the BT Group network, but that BT have been replacing it gradually for many years. It won't just be Openreach.

I think I have posted previously about that on these forums, with the "since" year, but not sure when or where. My brain isn't coming up with a search term that would easily find the post.

That's all correct but the Q you have to ask is do you want it anywhere.

We are trusting the Chinese to build Nuclear power stations which could potentially do a lot more harm than Chinese made telecom tech.

In reply to a post by lincsat:

We are trusting the Chinese to build Nuclear power stations which could potentially do a lot more harm than Chinese made telecom tech.

I think its rather easier to validate safety on a PS. Tracking what code does (assuming you find it) is tricky

And that's why the NCSC continues to look closely at Huawei products
Huawei cyber security evaluation centre oversight board: annual report 2019
A long read. Have fun!

Page 4 of the PDF Report "the Oversight Board can only provide limited assurance that all risks to UK national security from Huawei�s involvement in the UK�s critical networks can be sufficiently mitigated long-term."

BBC panorama are FAKE NEWS watch #PanoDrama an expose on the BBC the bbc can't be trusted to tell you the truth
They should be exposing the health risks of 5G

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 08-Apr-19 13:21:33)

Not here as well - the tin foil 5g hatters are loose on too many forums atm 🙄

In reply to a post by Garlic:

Not here as well - the tin foil 5g hatters are loose on too many forums atm 🙄

There must be some truth in it, and look what they are doing in ireland right now, cutting down thousands of trees, I don't think having it installed in lamp posts is a good idea

Just because someone repeats a lie many times does not imply there is truth in it.

Care to link to where 5G is making them cut down lots of trees in Ireland?

As for the idea of installing 5G in lamp posts, Wi-Fi with similar frequencies to 5G has been being installed in lampposts across the UK in various places for sometime.

Roberto

As of 2015 I was not aware of any Huawei kit in the BT group core. ( Neither Core nor Metro sites), May have been some optical transmission equipment at odd sites. When they took over EE is was decided to remove it all from the EE core, this may be still ongoing. All the FTTC kit had to go through the joint testing site in the UK that is now looking at the 5G equipment leading to the BBC report.

The control elements are the worrying bits and I don't know if the Mast equipment has to be same vendor. So Masts and Control may be irretrievable linked by vendor. The 'session' ('Call') control boxes have a capacity such that you would only need 1 ( duplicated) set for the whole of the UK so very risky!

Not Ireland but shows trees are a problem for 5g

So are they chopping thousands of trees down in Ireland for 5G as you previously stated?

And that article is saying that planting trees to obscure antennas is a bad choice for the technology - doesn't seem to be saying there should be a wholesale deforestation. You spoke of fake news - care to show why your statement of thousands of trees being chopped down in Ireland is not fake news?

Post deleted by MrSaffron

Post removed due to it containing a link that is spreading disinformation

Fine you want to keep your blinkered view that's fine

We can no more trust or not trust Huawei as any other hardware supplier such as Cisco, Juniper, Intel or AMD or the likes of Amazon, Google, Microsoft and others. Jon Honeyball has an excellent piece on the subject of national security in this month's PCPro (ed. 296 June 2019, p130).

To quote Honeyball "We logically ought to be applying the same amount of cynicism to everything from the US. Fair's fair."

https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-02-26
https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-03-28
https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-02-25

Edited by GonePostal (Mon 08-Apr-19 15:17:36)

In reply to a post by MCM:

We can no more trust or not trust Huawei as any other hardware supplier such as Cisco, Juniper, Intel or AMD or the likes of Amazon, Google, Microsoft and others. Jon Honeyball has an excellent piece on the subject of national security in this month's PCPro (ed. 296 June 2019, p130).

To quote Honeyball "We logically ought to be applying the same amount of cynicism to everything from the US. Fair's fair."

No it isn't. Whatever the faults of the west they don't have the coercive force on companies to aid the state in espionage abroad. Doesn't mean they get a free pass for whatever flaws exist or they might put in for their own purposes but its not the same as China/Russia/NK etc

Exactly. The simple fact is that the Five Eyes can't impose conditions on a Chinese company to introduce the back doors they want. The fact Huawei are trying not to implement any such backdoor from any government - western or Chinese should actually be seen as a Good Thing.

Given that Ericsson and Nokia, who are Huawei's biggest competitors in this space aren't exactly ingratiating themselves, as far as I'm concerned, I'd be happier *with* Huawei kit than without.

In reply to a post by Garlic:

Whatever the faults of the west they don't have the coercive force on companies to aid the state in espionage abroad.

And just how do we know this?

Coercion comes in many forms.

You want to supply us with (xxx) Well how can you help us to help you....

What evidence do you have to support your assertions? IMO none whatsoever. May I suggest removing those rose tinted spectacles. I for one no more trust the US government to be acting any differently than the Chinese in this respect.

+1

Damn straight.

Indeed, just watch the Snowden film to see how the US have total access to Telecom networks and power grids in both friendly and non-friendly countries

Vendor kit is nearly always black box. No reason to trust any of it. Verification of what it's doing is easy enough though. Don't give its management plane access to the Internet, monitor any telemetry and traffic sourcing from its IP interfaces.

If it's connecting via HTTPS to something you're not aware of it's probably a good idea to look into it further.

In reply to a post by MCM:

What evidence do you have to support your assertions? IMO none whatsoever. May I suggest removing those rose tinted spectacles. I for one no more trust the US government to be acting any differently than the Chinese in this respect.

Oh for ..... sake. Chinese law requires their companies to aid the state in espionage. UK law etc has no such provision. Chinese citizens who defy the Chinese state disappear. That doesn't happen in 5 eyes.

I know someone who decided against a Huawei phone on the basis of the negative publicity surrounding them, although they have no problem buying a Lenovo. In the end they played it safe and bought a Samsung!

You really should remove your rose tinted spectacles and look at bit closer at how the US government operates. We're not talking .about human rights which I agree are extremely poor in China but rather industrial and state espionage and intelligence gathering.

Do you still believe in the tooth fairy as well?

Cisco - to name just one company hve a history do backdooring switches etc at Government behest, not a rumour, it is widely known and has been the subject of legal actions.

This stuff was known about 10 years ago (or maybe more)

You need to get out more and read more of the technical press, Its well known and often discussed.