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Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 14-Jan-20 19:40:21
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: robbieglover2k7] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robbieglover2k7:
If you have some time read the little article I edited into my OP here titled "Openreach Put the Brakes on Future UK G.fast Broadband Plans" and see what you think.
Despite what my second reply might suggest I don't think the sun shines out of BT's corporate posterior. Their G.Fast rollout never made sense in my eyes from a technical point of view. It makes sense from an accountant's (low cost, relatively high availability) and marketing ('look Maw - we done got 300Mb/s too!').

G.Fast sounded like a good solution to no-spots (DSLAM on a lampost in the centre of a village kind of thing) but it turned out that the costs of running fibre to such a node meant it didn't make sense. At that point they should have dropped the whole thing but I suspect they didn't want to look like they'd wasted money on the research and/or had contracts with suppliers already signed.

At the moment hardly anyone wants those kinds of speeds anyway (which is why VM have recently upgraded people for free). By the time people do want those kinds of speeds the G.Fast pods will be obsolete and replaced by FTTP. G.Fast was a poor decision and I think we have to be grateful that they finally saw the light and stopped wasting money on what I at least would describe as a white elephant.

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Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 14-Jan-20 19:42:14
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
G.fast is a chocolate tea pot of a product ... end of.
Hey now - at least you can eat a chocolate teapot.

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Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 14-Jan-20 19:48:16
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
As long as you realised it was chocolate before you made tea in it.
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What a mess that could make!

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Three 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
==================================================
"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." Oscar Wilde


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Standard User CarlTSpeak
(regular) Tue 14-Jan-20 20:06:28
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
Indeed, competition seen as a driving force for progress. It, in this case hampered in the extreme.


Had it been actual competition BT would've been left alone. This wasn't competition / free market, it was government interference in it.

Building better networks, not just faster ones.
Standard User clyde123
(member) Wed 15-Jan-20 10:31:20
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: robbieglover2k7] [link to this post]
 
I little bit of personal experience here.
I was backwards and forwards to France a lot in the 1980s. When we first started getting dial up broadband, ok was snail slow by today's standards, but we got a service that we could use for real internet things - WWW, email, etc.
In France from what I remember they had to use a terminal which seemed to have limited services. (I'm happy to be corrected on all this - I've got a great memory but it's short!).
Over a number of years I remember often saying how our internet (UK) was superior / faster than in France.

However in recent years my experience is that the tables have turned. All my contacts there seem to have really good fast speeds. On the other hand here in Glasgow I'm stuck with about 14 Mbps.
This is a relatively recent house but all the lines in the estate are EO. So no fibre services available. Totally ignoring Virgin for this argument as they are a "separate technology". There are no plans for any FTTP.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 15-Jan-20 12:05:14
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: clyde123] [link to this post]
 
France had Minitel which was available nationally, but provided similar service to our Teletext. However it was two-way, you could send emails. It was ahead of its time!

Broadband in france per head of population is easier as the majority live in large towns and cities. I may have the percentage wrong, but isn't it around 80% of the population lives within the Paris area?

VirginMedia 200/20 (22 Nov 19). Was FTTC for 7 years (55/12 to 46/5)
20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Wed 15-Jan-20 12:06:11)

Standard User robbieglover2k7
(experienced) Wed 15-Jan-20 12:49:30
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by robbieglover2k7:
Basically technology is evolving faster than our internet seems to be, there's a lot of articles and discussions about this but I don't want to link them as I'm not sure if you're able to link things here like that smile
All else being equal - what does it matter? Okay for us as members of this site the technology behind the internet and residential internet in particular is fascinating but for 95% of the UK's population it's of no interest at all. They don't care if their connection is via FTTP, FTTC, or an old man leading a donkey. All they care about is that it allows them to do the things they want to do. And the evidence we have of the last 20 years (maybe more) is that the UK's telecommunications network has been providing most of the population with what they want better than most of the UK's peers.

It also, from a pragmatic engineering standpoint, seems to have been a sensible and logical growth. For example if we'd decided to go straight from analog to FTTP a lot of the population would still have been on analogue ten years ago. With that plan the remaining 5% might still be on analogue today. BT (and others) have done a reasonably good job of upgrading the national network to keep up with demand.

But the technology used..meh. That's just bragging rights. It's of interest to us geeks but most people in the UK don't care and don't need to care.


I hear what you're saying with that and I don't disagree however I do feel that in regards to broadband itself, most people probably would want a better more solid service (however that's done technology wise).

If you said to most people about our internet being delivered through phone lines as opposed to a much stronger and solid way of delivering it to our homes than through wires (or whatever) I would imagine they would say we should be advanced from that.

As I say the only reason most have phone lines now is for the internet, of course business's still use phone's in their offices but I don't know anyone for years who has used a landline phone in their homes, I can't even remember last seeing one which is what I mean by how they're only still around due to this reason (is this a benefit to BT, I'm not sure).

It's interesting though because although I'm not overly clued up technology wise (which I admit) but I do wonder as technology advances and we do need more solid and faster broadband delivered to our homes how long can the current landline system deliver this

I mean we're now mainly on HD for most things such as Netflix, Amazon Prime, Box Office etc. which is fine at the moment to a degree however we're going into 4K now and it won't be long until that's a thing everywhere then onto an 8K quality.

My point is regardless of what 4K, 8K, whatever they want to call it we're on like how we had to advance from dial up to cater to the things that came into play it's going to be the same thing for this.

I read this comment earlier too which I thought was quite interesting.

"internet is rubbish in the UK any way you look at it with 60-70 being "superfast", average in the US being about 90"


It does seem like on a whole we are lacking as opposed to where we probably should be, we shouldn't really have the amount of problems we have now (although of course technology is going to have but you get what I mean).

It's all really interesting and I appreciate your insights here too smile

Plusnet Broadband
Standard User robbieglover2k7
(experienced) Wed 15-Jan-20 12:51:02
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by robbieglover2k7:
If you have some time read the little article I edited into my OP here titled "Openreach Put the Brakes on Future UK G.fast Broadband Plans" and see what you think.
Despite what my second reply might suggest I don't think the sun shines out of BT's corporate posterior. Their G.Fast rollout never made sense in my eyes from a technical point of view. It makes sense from an accountant's (low cost, relatively high availability) and marketing ('look Maw - we done got 300Mb/s too!').

G.Fast sounded like a good solution to no-spots (DSLAM on a lampost in the centre of a village kind of thing) but it turned out that the costs of running fibre to such a node meant it didn't make sense. At that point they should have dropped the whole thing but I suspect they didn't want to look like they'd wasted money on the research and/or had contracts with suppliers already signed.

At the moment hardly anyone wants those kinds of speeds anyway (which is why VM have recently upgraded people for free). By the time people do want those kinds of speeds the G.Fast pods will be obsolete and replaced by FTTP. G.Fast was a poor decision and I think we have to be grateful that they finally saw the light and stopped wasting money on what I at least would describe as a white elephant.


Yeah, maybe G. Fast isn't the thing but I do feel that if something doesn't come into play soon we'll be struggling more as the technology advances (playing catch up basically).

Really good insight, you make some great points smile

Plusnet Broadband
Standard User robbieglover2k7
(experienced) Wed 15-Jan-20 12:55:52
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: kitcat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kitcat:
robbieglover2k7

If you look on the maps on this site you can actually see whatFTTP has been rolled out.

You can also click on the Constituency Full Fibre/FTTP Coverage Levels to see stats for each area.

The news articles also show how the picture is changing and how fast. The OR one is at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/8639-january-202... but there are others for the other large FTTP operators.

Regardless of the technology 95% of the population are happy with sub 80Mb speeds and only pay for the slowest package that gives them a delay invisible service.

MTBF ( Mean time between failures) on the copper distribution carrying broadband is actually very low somewhere around 8 years. but as always those with failures are the ones you hear about not the 95% that have no problems

A significant number of the complaints you hear ( Outside those caused by distance) are actually ISP or customer premises issues where ISP staff blame OR as that shifts the blame.

Some of the slow speed complaints are by people that don't want to upgrade to a faster service due to an increase in cost or just don't know that they can get a faster speed. See "the slowest streets in Britain" where most streets can get speed 10x+ faster if they were prepared to change product.

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Yeah the only think I think about in regards to that though is some people don't upgrade because their lines aren't capable so it's a waste of time and money to upgrade to faster packages because the lines can't support them.

I live in a popular area and I have that problem also, in fact Plusnet said this to me recently.

If you were on Fibre Extra, your package would allow speeds up to that 71mb/s. However, if you're not hitting the 40mb/s mark on your current package I'd be wary of upgrading needlessly.


And this is because the line can't deliver it (everything has been tested and set up fine by professionals here too) which means say if something comes out that requires that kind of speed and connection to run (which it will eventually) then I'm stuck because the system doesn't support to cater for it.

So there's that side of it also, I mean should there even be areas where certain streets can't get certain speeds now, debatable I guess but it does make me wonder considering we're in 2020 now smile

Plusnet Broadband

Edited by robbieglover2k7 (Wed 15-Jan-20 13:15:04)

Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Wed 15-Jan-20 12:58:30
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Re: Is Broadband behind in the UK? (Speeds, phone lines etc)


[re: robbieglover2k7] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robbieglover2k7:
. . . . but I don't know anyone for years who has used a landline phone in their homes, I can't even remember last seeing one which is what I mean by how they're only still around due to this reason (is this a benefit to BT, I'm not sure).


Perhaps if you expanded to horizons to areas where there is no mobile signal or considered a different age demographic to your own you might find a different answer.
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