Information regarding USO

Hello. I'm wondering about something that is stated on the Ofcom website and was wondering if someone could clarify.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-interne...

"Why is it taking nearly two years?"

"The Government�s initial commitment was for the USO to be in place from March 2020, so we are on track to deliver to this time frame."

By that, do they mean the public, sometime in March, be able to request a speed over 10mbps from their ISP?

20th March requests can be made, the vast majority will be delivered via 4G

Thank you for that clarification. I hope that 4g thing isn't set in stone. Most providers, if not all, provide a service over 10mbps where I live. However, they are not reliable when it comes to latency, constant connection etc... It would be a shame to have waited all this time for something like this for it to fall flat on 4g technology.

As I understand it, there are only two USO providers (one only covering Hull), so it will be BT for most of us (not your current ISP unless you are with BT). USO promises 10Mbps down 1Mbps up (sync speeds, not throughput), with latency suitable for VoIP or video calls, a contention ratio of no more than 50:1, and 100GBpm for no more than £45pm. And that will only be provided where the build cost is no more that £3400 or where the consumer pays the excess. They will have 30 days to decide whether you already have a USO compatible option available (such as 4G), or whether they will provide one (and they have a year to do so). It is likely that in most cases where there are no USO options it will be 4G that is provided (possibly with an external antenna).
So don't get too excited.

I think you will find it applies to all ISPs (Technically, in Ofcom-speak, Communications Providers - CPs).

Even if you were right, "BT" would mean BT Wholesale and all ISPs selling their products. More probably, it is Openreach that have to provide it. (And whoever provides the Hull infrastructure).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think you will find it applies to all ISPs (Technically, in Ofcom-speak, Communications Providers - CPs).

Even if you were right, "BT" would mean BT Wholesale and all ISPs selling their products. More probably, it is Openreach that have to provide it. (And whoever provides the Hull infrastructure).

"Legislation for the USO was brought in by the Government at the end of March 2018, and customers will be able to request a broadband USO connection directly from the designated universal service providers � BT and KCOM � from March 2020."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-interne...

So no, you cannot go to Talktalk or Sky and ask for a USO connection - even if they are resellers of Openreach services.

Conversely: BT don't have to use Openreach to provide the USO - and in most cases they won't, since Openreach don't run a 4G network.

I'm not sure about that - according to Ofcom:

"BT and KCOM are designated as Universal Service Providers. They will be responsible for taking requests for USO connections and building the necessary infrastructure to deliver them within a reasonable timeframe. KCOM will be the Universal Service Provider for the Hull Area, and BT will cover the rest of the UK."

From all the other ISPs that applied, only Hyperoptic met the requirements, and they withdrew.

Most providers, if not all, provide a service over 10mbps where I live.

In which case I suspect you can forget about USO giving you access to higher speeds.

That is my understanding too.

And my guess is reliability doesn't come into the equation.

BT in this context = Openreach for line-based. If Openreach provide it, it means BT Wholesale does. If BT Wholesale does they are unlikely to restrict it to BT Consumer and BT Business. That would almost certainly fall foul of Ofcom's own anti-monopoly provisions, never mind this crew.

Similarly with FTTC and even FTTP. Would Openreach refuse to provide to Sky, TalkTalk, Zen et al?

For places out of reach of landline provision at the moment, I accept it may be down to BT/EE to provide decent wireless broadband. Though most areas already have multiple suppliers of > 10Mbps mobile broadband.

And is it safe to assume you have to be a customer of BT to request a capable line over 10mbps?

No, however if the connection needs USO it will most likely be supplied by either BT ISP or EE if 4G connection.

Edited by deleted (Sun 01-Mar-20 19:58:28)

A slight positive.

So, no, you cannot go to Talktalk or Sky and ask for a USO connection - even if they are resellers of Openreach services.

What a splendidly level playing field.

�all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others�

You will become a customer of BT if you receive a USO connection.

As much as it shames me to say this. I'm ok with that. I've been waiting a very long time for a fast, reliable connection. I hate that BTs monopoly will grow but that's a fight for Sky, TalkTalk etc...

Assuming once the 12 month contract ends I can go with another provider, so not too bad.

Edited by deleted (Sun 01-Mar-20 20:41:55)

Quite. So much so I don't believe what the others in this thread do.

I think what many posters here are not realising is that once Openreach provide any form of USO-satisfying connection, it is almost certain any provider that uses Openreach will be able to make use of it.

As I implied earlier, In the absence of a clear statement from Ofcom that BT Consumer and BT Business would have monopoly access to said connection, I believe it would be open to all Openreach customers.

I do agree that if the solution for any particular customer is mobile broadband such as 4G or 5G, then BT/EE would have to provide. However almost all mobile masts have other providers on them or in the area, who could presumably also satisfy the USO requirement.

I'm not aware of Ofcom prohibiting other providers from satisfying the requirements. Only that BT must if others don't.

Perhaps MrSaffron could enquire if my second paragraph is right or wrong .

In one of the follow-ups I went along from the Ofcom link in the OP, BT Group expected only about 150,000 premises to be below the USO threshold by 2020 anyway. (Start or end of the year not specified).

If BT Group decides to implement FTTP (expecting possibly 40,000 if people in right areas request it) then they will pay the cost to Openreach and yes as well as offering service ot the USO requester others would an option. So the person requesting USO service would as things stand get BT FTTP but neighbours on same manifold will get the usual options.

The reality is the absoluate majority are expected to be sold a BT 4G plan that meets USO need with external antenna added if needed. Those plans will be via EE and not available via Openreach resellers.

It is extremely unlikely that a single USO request will see a new mobile mast installed (cost reasons).

Another gotcha is what happens when other providers in an area can deliver a USO type service, i.e. the USO is not a carte blanche for BT to pay Openreach to built FTTP for USO purposes if a fixed wireless provider or for example Vodafone 4G or three 4G service can meet the speed, price and usage criteria. It is this that is the reason why Ofcom is talking of 155,000 premises it believes will need USO intervention, i.e. something more, in a number of cases that intervention might just be the £99 EE outside antenna install.

USO is actually very little to do with improving speeds of fixed line services, but is more about getting people onto the alternatives.

Thanks Andrew . That is almost exactly what I expected and was trying to explain without "knowledge".

What you have added is a similar scenario to FTTPoD, where the requester pays whatever they have to if the cost is over £3,400, and restricted to BT Consumer/Business, but others who can get it as a result pay standard prices to the supplier of their choice.

Once the USO becomes active it will be good to hear from members who are or have gone through the process, maybe a thread dedicated to it like FTTPoD so members can share their experience's.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm not aware of Ofcom prohibiting other providers from satisfying the requirements. Only that BT must if others don't.

Of course, any operator can provide a 10Mbps+ connection at any location if they choose. But then you're not talking about the USO, which is the subject of this thread.

The USO is a very specific service, with specific government co-funding via specific chosen providers.

Other providers were encouraged to bid for the USO pot. They all dropped out, apart from BT and KCOM.

We seem to be talking at a slight cross-purpose .

As Andrew explained, to instigate a USO-satisfying service in an area you are correct. However, the result of that is that if it is landline based then that landline service can be provided to all other people covered by the same aggregation point (for FTTP) or FTTC cabinet by any provider of their choice

The USO-instigated service becomes available to all, and they do not have to get it from BT Consumer or Business.

If instead it requires installation of a mast for "mobile broadband", this may or may not be the case. Depending on the mast-sharing agreements in place between providers.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

We seem to be talking at a slight cross-purpose .

As Andrew explained, to instigate a USO-satisfying service in an area you are correct. However, the result of that is that if it is landline based then that landline service can be provided to all other people covered by the same aggregation point (for FTTP) or FTTC cabinet by any provider of their choice

Sure. There are even incentives in that direction: there is "assumed aggregation" of demand, so if there's a cluster of 10 houses, and only one of them requests USO, then it's assumed that all 10 will want it at some point and potentially £34,000 is available to connect them.

But equally, BT could just give the one property an EE SIM and an external antenna, if that will do the job.

There's no way that EE will put up a new 4G mast, demand-led from a cluster of 10 houses. But if there's existing 4G coverage (including the new shared rural 4G network), or it's due to be delivered within 12 months of the USO request, BT could use it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The USO-instigated service becomes available to all, and they do not have to get it from BT Consumer or Business.

But at that point, they're no longer ordering a "USO" service. You said originally:

"I think you will find it [the USO] applies to all ISPs (Technically, in Ofcom-speak, Communications Providers - CPs)"

But it does not. The Universal Service Obligation applies only to BT and to KCOM. You cannot claim connectivity under the USO from anyone else.

If your neighbour ordered USO at some time in the past, and as a result you have FTTC or FTTP available at your property, then happy days - you don't need USO.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019...

Interesting read for those interested. Page 20 to 24 for those interested in what other technologies they plan to use for USO. I won't hold my breath, but it's safe to say, with or without an external antenna, that 4g services won't provide me with a stable service. Voip, gaming etc..

Time will tell.

Semantics.

What makes you think that you will be eligible for USO support given you say that you currently have access to >10mbps?

3.26 without saying so seems to be implying that short line ADSL2+ i.e. download speeds above 10 Mbps will meet the requirements, this is an area where can see people disputing e.g. download sync of 12384 Kbps and upload sync of 1024 Kbps does meet criteria but a lot of the year the upload sync is lower at 990 Kbps.

As previously stated you likely aren't eligible for the USO.

If you've poor reliability there's a fault on your service that needs fixing.

This still doesn't make you eligible for the USO. You are likely to be listed on the various databases as being able to receive a service that achieves all the objectives, perceived reliability not one of the criteria.

Voice calls are quite tolerant to higher latencies and even the worst fixed line services will be USO compliant in terms of latency unless, again, there's a fault.

I don't really see how you could be eligible for the USO. You need the fault fixing, not to fall back on the USO.

All

If a USO request turns into a 4G solution, why cant the solution be the requestor is simply told to go and buy a 4G router and sim card? It seems crazy to think that BT/KCOM will be pocketing huge sums of money from the USO piggybank just for supplying a 4G router.

When a USO connection is requested the first step is for BT to determine whether all available options are sub-USO - if any options (e.g. 4G) are above USO then the USO application stops there and the person requesting it will be directed to available commercial products. It may be that where an external antenna is required BT will provide that under USO.
I don't expect USO to be the answer to slow broadband that many are expecting it to be (especially of you want a connection for 4K streaming, or gaming).

3.40

b) Where this is unable to improve the service, the customer will be offered an external
antenna at the cost of £100 to help boost the quality of the connection received.
c) If it is not possible for the consumer to receive a decent broadband connection, the
consumer will be offered the consumer will be offered the opportunity to enter the
broadband USO process.

I have an external antenna. I get between 20-30 mbps (as of late) with EE, Three. I do understand that is enough. And I am happy with those speeds. I have been with various 4g providers in the past and none have offered me a reliable service.

A couple of disconnections per day
Poor latency with spikes in the 1000s
The unreliability of wireless in general.
Wifi calling over 4g is useless
The list goes on.
If you complain about poor service to a phone carrier, which I've done many times in the past. Nothing gets done. Its not like fixed line. Or maybe it does, you're just not kept in the loop. I didn't stick around long enough to find out.

Perhaps i'm putting too much faith in the USO, or asking for too much. We will see in a few months and keep you updated.

I'd also like to think the people dealing with eligibility will listen and not push a service the customer has been on for years.

Look outside and you might see a pig flying past.

Your post clearly demonstrates that you will not be eligible for support through the USO.

Based on what you've posted the USO is going to do nothing for you.

NOTE: The £100 external antenna is no cheaper than doing that already (if I recall EE pricing)

OK, everything I had understood to this point lead me to believe that the requestor would get a 4G router sent to them as the solution. If you are right anyone who can get a 4G connection is wasting their time going down the USO route.

Only times I expect to see a draw down against the USO funds is the small number delivered via fixed line.

In the vast majority of cases the USO is about having someone for public to talk to and work through the possible options, i.e. for some where 4G is not an option it may be point them at a fixed wireless service that is in their area.

USO is a safety net, to stop the moans of I cannot do online banking or pay car tax online etc

The inquirer will be offered a 4G plan (up to them to accept it, since the costs will be different to what they have now).

On the last sentence, yes if you have 4G with speeds greater than 10 Mbps down then no point in pursuing USO path, unless you are in a cluster that be viable with aggregation for FTTP. Suspect though that the FTTP is going to be focused on those outside the 4G footprint

And, boy, is a juicy one.

If reliability has no place under the USO then, well... I'm at a loss.

Suppose i'll just have to send them some Latency graphs with sporadic numbers, packet loss and time outs.

I will see that flying pig one day.

Probably worth sharing the latency graphs here first.

https://shop.ee.co.uk/broadband/4g-home-broadband the external antenna might help you, but even under the USO that is a cost option.

I will do. I'd like to hear your guys opinion on it after the fact. I already have an external antenna pointing directly at 3/EE mast. Even had it installed by a professional.