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Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Sun 05-Jul-20 21:02:31
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
https://business.kcom.com/media/175902/eclipse_terms...

It's in Kcom's t&C's (8.2) so unlikely they would waive this.

Most ISP's charge £30 when a cease applies.

I'm pretty sure these T&C weren't in force when I signed up with Eclipse back in 2006.

Did the cease charges even exist back then? Wouldn't they have to notify me of any changes to T&C?


Surely, it should be a migration anyway? On changeover day, I received this email from KCOM

Subject: Migration notification - COMPLETED - 01777xxxxxx

Dear Paul,

We have completed the migration of 01777xxxxxx to your new supplier, please find the details of this service below:

Phone number:
Planned completion date:
Complete date:


In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Worth querying with Kcom considering it's btw to btw.

Have done so, got to be worth a try. Seems wrong to me.

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC

Edited by sparky_paul (Sun 05-Jul-20 21:22:16)

Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 05-Jul-20 21:24:16
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
They definitely weren't in force in 2006.

The cease charges have existed for some time, they increased from roughly £5 to £30 around 2015 (BT Wholesale's charge).

Although you joined Eclipse back in 2006 any time you recontracted you accepted their updated t&c's. Unless you've been on a rolling contract for 10+ years.

They also don't specify the amount of the cease charge in the t&C's which doesn't help.

I recommend querying with them why a cease fee has been applied in this case as it appears to be a migration.
Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Sun 05-Jul-20 21:42:10
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Although you joined Eclipse back in 2006 any time you recontracted you accepted their updated t&c's. Unless you've been on a rolling contract for 10+ years.

Never recontracted, never moved house, I've been on a rolling contract since the first 12 month contract ended in 2007.

What did happen a few years ago (2015?) was that they put everyone on legacy products onto equivalent current products - but no new T&C were issued or drawn attention to, I've checked the emails I had at the time. On my account, my 'out of contract' date still states 2007.

In any case, I think the strongest argument is that it's a migration, not a cease. I've emailed them as suggested, and queried the charge - we'll see what happens tomorrow.

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC


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Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Mon 06-Jul-20 08:55:02
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
Day 11 and on cue, another resync...

NEW STATS

DSL uptime:0 days,07 Hours55 Mins11 Secs
Data rate:19.999 Mbps / 78.955 Mbps
Maximum data rate:23.804 Mbps / 80.580 Mbps
Noise margin:15.3 / 3.3
Line attenuation:7.3 / 13.0
Signal attenuation:7.2 / 14.5
VLAN id:101
Upstream error control:Off
Downstream error control:Off

PREVIOUS (DAY 9)

Data rate:19.999 Mbps / 76.167 Mbps
Maximum data rate:23.804 Mbps / 77.710 Mbps
Noise margin:15.3 / 4.2
Line attenuation:7.2 / 13.1
Signal attenuation:7.2 / 14.7


So, 3dB SNR and another small improvement in sync, almost 79Mb.

What exactly is the relevance of the "maximum data rate", that's now showing over 80Mb?


Day 0 - Activation (60.2 DL)
Day 3 - Power cut! (56.2)
Day 5 - G.INP switched on (70.1)
Day 7 - SNR 6 >>> 5dB (73.9)
Day 9 - SNR 5 >>> 4dB (76.1)
Day 11 - SNR 4 >>> 3dB (78.9)

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 06-Jul-20 09:31:16
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
Looking good now smile.

The maximum data rate there're is looking to me like there is a bit of crosstalk from other FTTC lines or some other form of noise between you and the cabinet, that is stopping you sync'ing at 79999.

Given you are only 1Mbps below that it's probably as good as you are going to get.

Theoretically, in a few days if DLM has decided it is stable at this speed, you could try a single re-sync well inside daylight hours as noise is usually a bit less than when it is dusk or dark. That's why the margin is 3.3 not 3, noise having decreased since the sync. It will probably go back down to 3 in the middle of the night, then rise again tomorrow.

That's what the margin is for. It sync's you a little below max attainable to allow for actual noise fluctuations without disconnecting, and also to keep error rates low.

I would leave well alone smile. You wouldn't notice another 1Mbps and it would be fractionally less stable.

__________________________________________________________
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My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connection - Three B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up. 1+ 8 Pro max 80Mbps down, 24Mbps up.
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Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jul-20 09:48:30
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sparky_paul:
Day 11 and on cue, another resync...

NEW STATS

DSL uptime:0 days,07 Hours55 Mins11 Secs
Data rate:19.999 Mbps / 78.955 Mbps
Maximum data rate:23.804 Mbps / 80.580 Mbps
Noise margin:15.3 / 3.3
Line attenuation:7.3 / 13.0
Signal attenuation:7.2 / 14.5
VLAN id:101
Upstream error control:Off
Downstream error control:Off

PREVIOUS (DAY 9)

Data rate:19.999 Mbps / 76.167 Mbps
Maximum data rate:23.804 Mbps / 77.710 Mbps
Noise margin:15.3 / 4.2
Line attenuation:7.2 / 13.1
Signal attenuation:7.2 / 14.7


So, 3dB SNR and another small improvement in sync, almost 79Mb.

What exactly is the relevance of the "maximum data rate", that's now showing over 80Mb?


Day 0 - Activation (60.2 DL)
Day 3 - Power cut! (56.2)
Day 5 - G.INP switched on (70.1)
Day 7 - SNR 6 >>> 5dB (73.9)
Day 9 - SNR 5 >>> 4dB (76.1)
Day 11 - SNR 4 >>> 3dB (78.9)


Unlucky not to have a magic 79999K as this the max sync rate due to crosstalk. U more likely to stay on 78955K unless someone go on holiday and will put u back on 79999K

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jul-20 09:51:45
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sparky_paul:
Just had final invoice from previous ADSL supplier, 30 day notice from order date, as expected...

and a £30+VAT cease fee mad


This is totally wrong from your ISP as u did migration over from your old isp to new isp. This cease fee is for the service to disconnected (no phone line, no broadband on the line, no migration) I would email them back to say this is error mistake on their end!

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Mon 06-Jul-20 09:58:48
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I would leave well alone smile. You wouldn't notice another 1Mbps and it would be fractionally less stable.

No, I'm more than happy with that, if things stay pretty much as they are.

To be honest, apart from the cockup on changeover day, it's all gone pretty smoothly. I think we can put the whole adventure down as a success.

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC
Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Mon 06-Jul-20 10:00:28
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
This is totally wrong from your ISP as u did migration over from your old isp to new isp. This cease fee is for the service to disconnected (no phone line, no broadband on the line, no migration) I would email them back to say this is error mistake on their end!

I've had an automated acknowledgement from Eclipse, just waiting for a human to respond.

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC

Edited by sparky_paul (Mon 06-Jul-20 10:00:50)

Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Mon 06-Jul-20 10:05:20
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Re: BT/Openreach migration gateway


[re: sparky_paul] [link to this post]
 
Wait for another week then try power down at 12:45pm for 31 minutes and powered it up at 1:16pm to see it come back at 79999K (sometimes it does the trick)

** FTTC must powered down for at least 30 minutes to avoid DLM trigger) once a day **

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014

Edited by adslmax (Mon 06-Jul-20 10:06:15)

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