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Standard User richsdixon
(newbie) Wed 15-Jul-20 09:18:03
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Broadband speed versus provider question


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Hi All

A question I'd always wanted answering. Up until last year I used Virgin media but issues with the router that they refused to attend to meant I changed provider to Talk Talk. With Virgin I got a rapid 70+ MBps but with TalkTalk I only get about 30.

Virgin were using their Fibre network to obtain fast speeds, but TalkTalk are seemingly using the local exchange to get broadband to my house. If I was to change again to BT or Sky or PlusNet am I right in thinking that the broadband method is the same as TalkTalk so the speed would be the same?

Thanks
Richard
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 15-Jul-20 09:31:46
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by richsdixon:
If I was to change again to BT or Sky or PlusNet am I right in thinking that the broadband method is the same as TalkTalk so the speed would be the same?

You should post the statistics from your router/modem.but it is likely.

If you really need more speed, virgin may be the only option. What was the problem? You can set the SuperHub to modem mode and plug in a third party router, I'm using an Asus RT-AX88U for WiFi 6 support with my Virgin Hub 3.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 15-Jul-20 09:45:14
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
From a technology perspective in the home broadband there are a number of providers of infrastructure - the two big ones are Openreach and Virgin. There are other players like Cityfibre, Gigaclear, B4RN, HyperOptic, etc but they tend to have smaller coverage at present.

Virgin use their own network - part fibre and part coax (some areas of the country are moving to full fibre). The coax technology that Virgin use continues to be upgraded and can in many areas provide very high speeds now (you;ll see on their website that they currently display packages up to 500Mb but the coax can go faster).

Openreach use a number of technologies as they have been gradually changing tech over the years. Many of the technologies use the copper cables that were originally installed for telephony - these include ADSL (slow by modern standards), VDSL/FTTC (quicker but limited by distance from cabinet), G.Fast (upgrade to VDSL but still dependent on distance to cabinet) and FTTP (fastest, currently have packages up to 1Gb). FTTP is only available to a small percentage of the country.

The providers you mention (TalkTalk, BT, Sky and PlusNet) all resell the Openreach services (although there are nuances as to how they do that which can make a difference to the end user experience).

Most people at present only have VDSL/FTTC available from Openreach - they are rolling out FTTP but it is going to take time.

The other providers I mention mostly have their own FTTP networks but they are limited in numbers.

You can then also add mobile networks - in slow broadband areas the mobile network may provider faster speeds that are more useful. BT own EE so provide their mobile through that network but most (or all) of the major networks now have competitively priced unlimited data packages.

Then you also have wifi networks that can provide connection via wifi rather than using cables. These tend to be very localised and somewhat sparse in availability.

There is satellite to add to the mix if you really can't get anything else but this tends to be expensive, slow and very high latency. This is a real last ditch selection at present - new satellite service might improve some of this but latency is always going to be high as it has a long way to travel.


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Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Wed 15-Jul-20 10:23:02
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
You will be on a fibre to the cab connection with talk talk.
If the speed you are getting is broadly in line with the talk talk estimate it's going to be similar to BT, Sky, plusnet etc
Standard User richsdixon
(newbie) Thu 16-Jul-20 12:33:44
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much for this - it was kind of what I was expecting. I have broadband here in Blackheath at 25 MBps with TalkTalk but the same package in Whitstable where a family member lives is 55 MBps so I presume the "distance to cabinet" is further in Blackheath.

I've started doing a lot of downloading of data for work so was wondering about changing provider - looks like maybe I'll have to head back to Virgin to get some more robust download speeds !

Edited by richsdixon (Thu 16-Jul-20 12:34:52)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Jul-20 13:54:54
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
There will be people in Blackheath that are right next to the cabinet and others probably that are further away than you are. It is down to where the cabinet you are connected to is compared to your house - it isn't a specific thing to compare between towns as equally in Whistable on your family members cabinet there will likely be people a long way from the cabinet.
Standard User richsdixon
(newbie) Thu 16-Jul-20 15:10:30
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thanks - so I'm guessing in Blackheath it's back to Virgin or bust !
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 16-Jul-20 16:40:00
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
Unless there are other plans then for your property that is likely the case - but your property will not be representative of the whole of Blackheath.
Standard User APTMAN
(member) Thu 16-Jul-20 16:40:39
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: richsdixon] [link to this post]
 
Re ...I've started doing a lot of downloading of data for work.

Have they asked you to work from home ?, if so I would expect a decent firm to offer to pay towards your connection or pay for a 'Leased Lines or Dedicated Internet Access'.
Standard User jpm
(learned) Thu 16-Jul-20 17:42:21
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: APTMAN] [link to this post]
 
Be realistic - do you really know many firms installing *leased lines* into the homes of their staff?
Standard User awontroba
(member) Fri 17-Jul-20 04:33:17
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: jpm] [link to this post]
 
My last employer supplied me with an ADSL line for remote support /development purposes for many years. Then they withdrew it on the grounds that I had my own broadband and, no, they were not going to provide any compensation for using my line for their work.

I only knew one person who managed to retain his company line. I think his argument was that he had no home broadband of his own.

This was with a "big name" in the industry. Almost by definition a not decent bean counter led employer.

--
Adrian

Edited by awontroba (Fri 17-Jul-20 04:35:28)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 17-Jul-20 07:48:43
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: awontroba] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by awontroba:
My last employer supplied me with an ADSL line for remote support /development purposes for many years. Then they withdrew it on the grounds that I had my own broadband and, no, they were not going to provide any compensation for using my line for their work.


I work for a very large global IT company, and we stopped paying for, or towards, home broadband connections in 2005 in every country. Management said that broadband was no longer special and only used for business, the majority of usage was turning out to be domestic.

This Covid pandemic means majority are now home working, but the UK ISPs have been great, and I've not heard of anyone being told "this domestic service is not for home working".

To many ISPs "Home working" is seen as different to running a business at home.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Fri 17-Jul-20 07:49:43)

Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 17-Jul-20 09:28:35
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In addition if an employer is providing the connection and it is used for any reasonable amount of personal use then I believe it would be a taxable benefit which just complicates things further for most people. My employer is generally looking at it from the point of view that they don't pay travel expenses to get to the office so the amount of money most people save from not travelling will cover their broadband costs (which they probably aren't paying more for anyway) - if they don't have broadband at home then they would have to go to the office to work (or would have been furloughed before the lockdown restrictions were largely lifted).
Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Fri 17-Jul-20 09:46:24
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
In addition if an employer is providing the connection and it is used for any reasonable amount of personal use then I believe it would be a taxable benefit which just complicates things further for most people. My employer is generally looking at it from the point of view that they don't pay travel expenses to get to the office so the amount of money most people save from not travelling will cover their broadband costs (which they probably aren't paying more for anyway) - if they don't have broadband at home then they would have to go to the office to work (or would have been furloughed before the lockdown restrictions were largely lifted).


So in theory the other side of the coin is that if you are using your personal internet connection for work matters you should be able to offset part of the cost of the connection against your income tax.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 17-Jul-20 09:58:18
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
Nope. From HMRC (my bold):

You may be able to claim tax relief for some of the bills you have to pay because you have to work at home on a regular basis. You cannot claim tax relief if you choose to work from home.

You can only claim for things to do with your work, for example, business telephone calls or the extra cost of gas and electricity for your work area.

You cannot claim for things that you use for both private and business use, for example, rent or broadband access


EDIT : Also this:
“If the broadband connection is paid for by the company and is provided at the employees/directors home then, a full deduction for the cost is allowed when calculating the corporation tax due for the year.

“Provided that any personal use of that connection is ‘insignificant’, no benefit in kind issues arise for the individual.

“However, if the broadband connection is used for a mixture of business and personal use then a benefit in kind will apply with the full amount paid by the company becoming taxable on the individual.”

Edited by ian72 (Fri 17-Jul-20 10:00:36)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 17-Jul-20 10:23:17
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
So in theory the other side of the coin is that if you are using your personal internet connection for work matters you should be able to offset part of the cost of the connection against your income tax.

Nope. Some self employed people have been able to do similar, but not those employed by larger corporations.

It ended up with some silly situations of having "corporate" broadband on a separate Openreach line installed into the bedroom acting as an office, when the family had the original Openreach line with a separate service. This meant the company paying for a business phone line that was never carrying calls, due to the use of mobile phone, and laptop calling solutions.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User richsdixon
(newbie) Thu 23-Jul-20 12:09:34
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Re: Broadband speed versus provider question


[re: APTMAN] [link to this post]
 
This is data downloading for personal work so no work not of relevance here. Having searched around it looks like the smaller fibre high speed broadband companies don't offer anything in my area.
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