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Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-Dec-20 02:29:09
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Wifi interference


[link to this post]
 
Just experienced wifi interference and its consequences. I have two routers downstairs, a Zyxel VMG-1312-B10A and a talk talk business router. Both have wifi on on the 2.4ghz band. The Zyxel is set to channel 3 - 20mhz width. The talk talk router picks whatever channel it feels like despite me picking channel 6 it changes at a whim about every day or so.

I monitor the zyxel which is in bridge mode via the wifi on an upstairs PC with DSL stats. Tonight around midnight DSL Stats couldn't log in to the zyxel to collect stats for about an hour until I began to investigate.

Firing up WinFi Lite I discovered that the talk talk router was also on channel 3 and winfi lite was highlighting the two in red. Aha I thought that must mean the two are interfering with each other, and I knew it was me because I was wearing my glasses.

So moral of the story I have switched off the talk talk routers 2.4ghz signal and now DSL Stats is happily logging in to the weaker zyxel signal. Phew, so much for my ad-hoc mesh network.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM

Edited by Banger (Tue 29-Dec-20 02:30:47)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-Dec-20 09:03:21
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
This is the one thing I think may happen if I go for Zzoomm as they are going to have two hubs, Adtran SmartRG 400, so if they are both putting out wi-fi, I am sure they will cause some problems, saying that I could disable the one, Wi-fi is good from my Zyxel router all around the house from where it is in the living room.

i use Ethernet a lot here anyway, it is only the Echo dots, phone, and my Switch bots that uses Wi-fi

Adrian

Desktop machine Ryzen powered with windows 10 , reluctantly.

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User danielhyde
(member) Tue 29-Dec-20 09:20:14
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
It's highly recommended that you only use channels 1, 6 and 11.
Other channels overlap and cause more interference than non overlapping channels.
The channel you use overlaps with 1 and 6 causing more interference than if you were using channel 1 or 6.


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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-Dec-20 11:43:35
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
Phew, so much for my ad-hoc mesh network.

As you've found, having two independent devices that don't share information, is not a mesh. (There is a thread on how meshes work in the other forum). That TalkTalk router sounds a problem if it doesn't stay on the channel you choose.

The advice to only use the 3 central channels is not wrong for performance, but with 2.4 GHz range being so far, in many towns there are no spare channels. In my street 2.4 GHz is unable, and I'm using 5GHz because of its reduced range.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-Dec-20 16:23:31
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by danielhyde:
It's highly recommended that you only use channels 1, 6 and 11.
Other channels overlap and cause more interference than non overlapping channels.
The channel you use overlaps with 1 and 6 causing more interference than if you were using channel 1 or 6.


I've checked the Zyxel and it says channel 1 but the carrier is actually on channel 3 according to winfi lite.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 29-Dec-20 16:48:35
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Have a read here
https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/why-chan...

If the talktalk router isn’t playing ball, get it replaced under your contract with them. The new hub only chooses 1,6,11 on AUTO so it’s odd you say it chose channel 3. It wouldn’t do that. Unless you have an older model, some of those were made by huawei and were programmed poorly.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 29-Dec-20 16:52:51
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I think it is a firmware problem with the hub and TTB have "no channels back to sagemcom to report firmware problems" according to a rep. Anyway I have just switched off 2.4 that seems to be sticking. I have another 2 hubs after a cockup with the order but they have the same firmware.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 30-Dec-20 03:18:53
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
The device is fully managed via TR069 and does receive firmware updates as required. In terms of having nobody they can work with at sagecomm, how do you think they got the thing going in the first place? A stakeholder in the company...

What specific firmware problems do you have as there isn’t widely reported devices with this hub anywhere.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 30-Dec-20 06:37:38
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
There are a couple of things. One on the ethernet display it doesn't show link rate, same for the WAN. But the main problem is when you manually select a wifi channel on 2.4 or 5ghz after a day or so it changes. In other words it is in auto mode despite choosing the required channel.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User wigompo
(newbie) Fri 01-Jan-21 04:02:03
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Re: Wifi interference *DELETED*


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by seb
Standard User iefbr14
(regular) Fri 01-Jan-21 17:03:27
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: wigompo] [link to this post]
 
OK, just done a quick scan of the thread, but your problem may be the "intelligent" channel selection algorithms on the sagecom router. It will dynamically change your wifi channel, no matter what your router is set to, "auto" or your specific chosen channel. That is why your channel changes from your selection.

Quite a few people having problems with this router feature which does occasionally seem to pick the "worst" channel rather than the "best". Widely reported on the TT Community Forums.

You need to get in touch with TalkTalk to have this switched off.

Edited by iefbr14 (Fri 01-Jan-21 17:21:47)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Jan-21 18:47:04
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm interesting. TT or TTB who I am with? Might be easier to switch off wifi on the router.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM

Edited by Banger (Fri 01-Jan-21 19:15:10)

Standard User iefbr14
(regular) Fri 01-Jan-21 19:53:40
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Who do you pay your bills to ?

If you are a TT Residential customer it is easy - just post your request on the TT Customer Forums.

If you are a TT Business customer I guess you would have to ask them - I have no idea what their support structure is like.

Good luck.

Edited by iefbr14 (Fri 01-Jan-21 19:55:08)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 01-Jan-21 21:04:52
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
Who do you pay your bills to ?


TTB. I will ask the question.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Jan-21 22:21:28
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
TTB have no access to router settings according to an agent this morning. So I guess the answer is just to switch wifi off.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User iefbr14
(regular) Sat 02-Jan-21 23:21:02
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Well, FWIW, my understanding is that it is not a router setting.

It is a line parameter 100% under the control of TalkTalk and can only be changed by TalkTalk technical staff.

Guess paying the extra for "business" level support doesn't buy you any better level of support. Residential customers can have this done on request as a simple change by the forum OCE's (who are TalkTalk staff).
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Jan-21 23:30:01
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
I'll have another go tomorrow, maybe I was asking for the wrong thing.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jan-21 12:45:03
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iefbr14:
Well, FWIW, my understanding is that it is not a router setting.

It is a line parameter 100% under the control of TalkTalk and can only be changed by TalkTalk technical staff.


It's not a line parameter. It is a router setting (hidden).

How on Earth can a WiFi channel be changed by a line parameter?

It's a router setting, not available in the GUI.
Talktalk use TR-069 to disable it within the router.

Absolutely ridiculous to require support staff to disable this imo.
I've commented on this in the Talktalk forums a couple times.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jan-21 12:52:03
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
... maybe I was asking for the wrong thing.


You weren't.
Talktalk residential phone staff are just as clueless to this setting.
It's only really the OCE's on the community forum that know what they're doing.

Here's about 101 examples of Talktalk disabling WiFi channel optimisation on the Sagemcom Fast 5364 after customer requests.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Talktalk+community+s...
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 12:58:14
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
Absolutely ridiculous to require support staff to disable this imo.
This sort of rubbish is why we need a genuine interoperability standard for new style voice lines over data services. So we can replace ISP issued routers and avoid this rubbish.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User iefbr14
(regular) Sun 03-Jan-21 14:12:14
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
It's not a line parameter. It is a router setting (hidden).

How on Earth can a WiFi channel be changed by a line parameter?


My understanding again ........

The "line parameter" does not set the wifi channel (you are correct in that statement).

The line parameter switches the auto channel selection feature on or off, if "on" the router then decides the router's channel automatically (no matter what the router wifi channel selection is). If "off" the user can then decide his/her router channel "as normal".

If enabled the router decide on the best wifi channel (for better or worse), regardless of the router's manual channel selection.

The "line parameter" is controlled by TalkTalk. It is a feature enabler, not strictly the feature itself.

EDIT - FWIW - I have just found this quote in a thread from a TT OCE regarding disabling this feature.

"However our Products Team have advised if you are experiencing issues and would prefer to select your own wireless channels then we can arrange for Wi-Fi optimisation technology to be switched off on your line."

Note - On your line !!

Edited by iefbr14 (Sun 03-Jan-21 14:25:59)

Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jan-21 14:31:16
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
It's not a line profile setting.

There is NO WAY that a setting can be sent over a line or applied to a line that can change a WiFi channel.

Probably not technically even possible.

Talktalk use TR-069 to disable WiFi optimisation on the Hub.

If it was a line setting it wouldn't need reapplied if the Hub is replaced.

It DOES need changed every time a new Sagemcom Hub is installed.

There's a couple threads on the Talktalk forums where users have asked for it to be turned off again after a Hub replacement.

Talktalk might have a fancy tool where they click a button for a line, that sends a TR-069 request.
It certainly doesn't work across devices.

It's TR-069.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 03-Jan-21 14:34:06)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 14:49:14
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iefbr14:
Note - On your line !!
Using the terminology TalkTalk staff use will be necessary when talking to them, or posting on their forum, but it isn't technically correct, given it it the "hub" (router) that is being configured.

(ie - if you replaced the Sagemcom with a third party VDSL router, then this problem would go away)

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User iefbr14
(regular) Sun 03-Jan-21 15:28:23
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Well to fully qualify the answers on this thread I suspect that you would have to have an in-depth understanding of the Assia technology that TT implemented on the sagemcomm unit (the only TT modem fitted with this technology).

As I don't, but do have a reasonably amount of faith in the TT OCE's knowledge of their own products and what they are talking about, I will stop recirculating this thread.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 15:49:24
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by iefbr14:
Well to fully qualify the answers on this thread I suspect that you would have to have an in-depth understanding of the Assia technology that TT implemented on the sagemcomm unit (the only TT modem fitted with this technology).

To clarify, whatever this "assia" technology is, it will be on the Sagemcomm unit only, and cannot be on the "line" as that is owned by Openreach, either ADSL (with a TalkTalk DSLAM) or VDSL (with an Openreach DSLAM). The Openreach line is fully defined in SIN documents. The terminology the TalkTalk staff are using is horrendous, but as consumers we cannot change this.

ASSIA appears to be a software outfit, and it appears is part of a package of measures to reduce call centre overhead. Not unsurprising that TalkTalk would want to do this to keep their costs low:
https://www.assia-inc.com/products/licensing/

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sun 03-Jan-21 15:51:17)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 03-Jan-21 15:58:41
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
ASSIA appears to be a software outfit, and it appears is part of a package of measures to reduce call centre overhead. Not unsurprising that TalkTalk would want to do this to keep their costs low:
With the law of unintended consequences kicking in and increasing the call centre load from people wanting it fixing. Subsequenty also having to get onto the forum reps.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
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Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 03-Jan-21 19:50:35
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by iefbr14:
ASSIA appears to be a software outfit, and it appears is part of a package of measures to reduce call centre overhead. Not unsurprising that TalkTalk would want to do this to keep their costs low:
https://www.assia-inc.com/products/licensing/


They make DLM's for network providers. They run a couple of the LLU DLM's.

They sued BT/OpenReach for the FTTC DLM copying their "technology".

They've now jumped on the WiFi management bandwagon.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 21:17:15
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
They make DLM's for network providers. They run a couple of the LLU DLM's.
They sued BT/OpenReach for the FTTC DLM copying their "technology".
They've now jumped on the WiFi management bandwagon.

Its poor there is no end-user interface.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 04-Jan-21 11:44:41
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for pointing this out, was reading about to shout about TR-069

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 15:49:11
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: iefbr14] [link to this post]
 
Well I emailed the CEO who passed on my request to the complaints department who could see the community requests on the website to turn off wifi optimization.

But later came back with after investigation said it was not possible on TTB or TT to turn this feature off according to product support department.

So I will use my Asus as an access point and turn off wifi on the TT router.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 19:39:37
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
So I will use my Asus as an access point and turn off wifi on the TT router.
Good idea. If I was in your shoes, I would replace the TT router completely with my own VDSL modem linked to the ASUS. (e.g. a second hand Huawei HG612, or a Draytek modem etc).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 20:47:12
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I'm using the ZyXel VMG-1312-B10A as a VDSL modem because it reboots every few days when used as a router so will leave as is as per sig with TTB router wifi off.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Jan-21 00:26:37
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
So I have had an email from the TTB complaints department acknowledging the problem with wifi channels changing on their own when set manually. They said they will notify the Product Department and a firmware fix should be pushed out in due course.

Also heard from Sagemcom Support who I contacted about a firmware update but they essentially fobbed me off with saying the correct route is via ISP to report to Sagemcom who would issue a firmware to TT and it would be pushed by TT.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 07-Jan-21 02:22:05
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
I’d keep pressing talktalk as this is something commonly changed by talktalk. Seems odd they’re saying it’s not possible, it is.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Jan-21 02:25:55
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Re: Wifi interference


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
The complaints bod was adamant that it could not be changed on the TTB platform despite contrary evidence on the TT community forum.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
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