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Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 14:51:44
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Broadband Availability Checker


[link to this post]
 
Good Afternoon,

How accurate do people generally find the estimated speeds on the
Broadband Availability Checker website - https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

The website gives estimated download speeds of 20-40mbps for my line using my telephone number.

In reality, I can only achieve 13-18mbps download. This is the speed I get with my current provider (Plusnet), plus the following providers (if I try to sign up with them) EE, BT, Utility Warehouse, Talk Talk and COOP all give speed estimates in this range with a minimum guarantee of 15mbps.

I have had an Openreach engineer visit who confirms no fault on my line.

My line is 1.2km from the cabinet I am connected to. The cabinet was installed right next to the exchange.

Is it likely at this distance I would be able to achieve up to 40mbps?

Thanks in advance for any feedback or input.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 10-Feb-21 15:06:48
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
On a perfect line at 1.2km, I would guess at around 25Mbps and that could depend on the gauge/type of conductors. You might just scrape 30Mbps in some cases if the target SNR drops to 3dB but nothing more.

Add in external noise, cross talk, joints, an imperfect filter (none are perfect), the tolerance on modem front end and the achievable number drops.


Your 13-18 is maybe a little low, however, one nasty crosstalker can easily knock 5-8 Mbps from your speed. How accurate is the 1.2km is that actual wire length or your guestimate based on where you think it runs?

Tidying up at your end might give a little more, or it might not!

What are your full line stats?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 15:31:44
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply.

The line length and location of cabinet were provided by the Openreach engineer and he explained how the line went round the village until it arrived at my postcode.

These are the full stats from the availability checker

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 42.9 27.4 8 6.1 25 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 41.8 25 7.8 5.4 20 Available Available --
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) ADSL Availability Date WBC SOADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 10.5 -- 8 to 12.5 Available Available --
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 10.5 Up to 1 8 to 12.5 Available Available --
ADSL Max Up to 8 -- 7 to 8 Available Available --
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available Available --
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- --
Observed Speeds VDSL ADSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed 19.99 18.92
Max Observed Upstream Speed 5.96 1.13
Observed Date 2021-02-01 2019-02-24
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Premise Environment Status
Bridge Tap N
VRI N
NTE FacePlate N
Last Test Date 28-01-2021
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y


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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 10-Feb-21 15:37:54
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
What about the stats from you modem/hub?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 15:40:12
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Apologies - is this what you meant?

6. Data rate: 5921 / 19135
7. Maximum data rate: 5921 / 32197
8. Noise margin: 6.2 / 13.8
9. Line attenuation: 28.2 / 26.1
10. Signal attenuation: 27.9 / 23.7
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 10-Feb-21 16:14:30
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
26dB suggest a little less than 1.2 km and the max rate of 32Mbps suggests that there are other issues given your 19Mbps sync.

What do you have connected at home as the difference between Max and Actual is significant. The 13.8dB suggests it is syncing low because there is an issue somewhere.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 10-Feb-21 16:17:45
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
You've got a high downstream noise margin - that potentially suggests there has been instability on the line that it has resolved by increasing the noise margin. If DLM is being allowed to do its thing then it should try reducing noise margin if the line is stable and doesn't have masses of errors - it may have already tried that and it not worked.

What happens if you reboot the router and check the SNR as soon as it is rebooted? My guess is it might be 12dB at that point which is probably your current target SNR.

Can you get any info from your router on errors as that might also help in understanding the line characteristics?

Edited by ian72 (Wed 10-Feb-21 16:18:11)

Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 16:27:43
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Sorry looked back through my records and I found the estimate I was given by Plusnet for the line length - it is 1.1127km

My set up is one master socket. No other sockets or extension leads. Router is plugged directly into the socket. Face plate was replaced by engineer so filter no longer needed. Phone connected is not digital or cordless. Router is the one provided by plusnet.

I have two devices connected by ethernet (laptops) and everything else is via Wifi (SkyBox, 2 TVs, Playstation plus 2 phones and Ipad)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 10-Feb-21 16:50:51
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
Can I suggest that you disconnect the modem/router from the socket.

Then reboot it. Wait 30 minutes before going to te stats page - which will be blank without a connection. Then disconnect the phone.

Finally, plug the modem/router in, and as soon as a full set of stats are there grab a copy and another copy a minute or two later.

Post those here, and then plug the phone in - do the stats change significantly.


Also, if you have a high SNR you need to leave everything alone to allow it to stabilise and reset.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Feb-21 17:16:27
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by marko845:
Apologies - is this what you meant?

6. Data rate: 5921 / 19135
7. Maximum data rate: 5921 / 32197
8. Noise margin: 6.2 / 13.8
9. Line attenuation: 28.2 / 26.1
10. Signal attenuation: 27.9 / 23.7


Can you provide the cabinet number and exchange that's reported at the top of the results page on the availability checker.

What modem/hub are you using?

The line doesn't look banded/capped by the DLM.

It could possibly be a Vectoring issue. Vectoring issues often result in a low downstream sync and high noise margin.
That's only possible if you are connected to a BDUK funded Huawei cabinet.
That can be checked using the cabinet number and exchange or if you would rather not give that info I could explain how to check this yourself.

Ideally your line will sync around the maximum data rate reported by your modem.
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 17:44:16
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Stats after reboot

5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:00:26
6. Data rate: 6047 / 19135
7. Maximum data rate: 6047 / 34521
8. Noise margin: 6.0 / 13.7
9. Line attenuation: 28.0 / 26.0
10. Signal attenuation: 28.0 / 23.6

5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:04:00
6. Data rate: 6047 / 19135
7. Maximum data rate: 6047 / 34438
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 13.7
9. Line attenuation: 28.0 / 26.0
10. Signal attenuation: 27.9 / 23.6
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 10-Feb-21 17:50:06
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
So, no change and 13.7dB is a rather odd number. If DLM was causing it then 9, 12, 15 +/- a small amount would be the margin.

j0hn83 has made a comment above - let him have the info he has asked for and he may be able to point to an issue.


I will say, just avoid any reset/reboot/powercycle unless absolutely necessary.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 17:59:08
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I am connected to 'Exchange NEWICK is served by Cabinet 7'

I am using the plusnet hub one as supplied.
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 10-Feb-21 18:05:30
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Hi Ian,

After reboot the stats are

5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:04:00
6. Data rate: 6047 / 19135
7. Maximum data rate: 6047 / 34438
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 13.7
9. Line attenuation: 28.0 / 26.0
10. Signal attenuation: 27.9 / 23.6


The event log is full of the following type of messages

IN: BLOCK [16] Remote administration (ICMP type 8 code
IN: BLOCK [15] Default policy (TCP
BLOCKED 4 more packets (because of Default policy)
OUT: BLOCK [15] Default policy (First packet in connection is not a SYN packet:

These are occurring every few seconds
Standard User j0hn83
(knowledge is power) Fri 12-Feb-21 12:30:10
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
It is a BDUK funded cabinet.
My suspicion would be this is a Vectoring issue.

I've no idea if the Plusnet Hub One has any known Vectoring issues or not. You would need to try another modem to test this.
A Huawei HG612 would be ideal for this as they appear to work great with Vectoring.

I've noticed similar high max attainable and low sync on a few modems when Vectoring is enabled.
With some of the Zyxel modems that have the Vectoring issue changing the dsl driver in use to the version that passed OpenReach MCT (modem conformance testing) saw the issue go away and the modem sync at the high attainable rate.

Do you have another modem you could try? Even if it's just to get sync quickly to test if the Plusnet Hub is the issue.
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Fri 12-Feb-21 14:17:52
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply.

The only other options I have for routers are BT Home Hub 4, which is just the same as the plusnet hub one which is branded.

I have a Vodafone router - HUAWEI Model HHG2500 - its never been used but its reviews are not very positive for FTTC broadband! I also have no idea how to setup a router that is not the approved version.

I notice a Huawei HG612 is fairly cheap to pick up off Ebay, so may try to source one of these - are they easy to set up?

Thanks
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Wed 24-Feb-21 09:25:28
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for everyone who offered advice.

It turns out my line had a banded profile, which capped speeds to 20mbps maximum.

This has now been removed and I am now getting speeds over 30mbps download!!

6. Data rate: 6050 / 34131
7. Maximum data rate: 6051 / 34273
8. Noise margin: 5.9 / 6.0
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Wed 24-Feb-21 10:06:11
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: marko845] [link to this post]
 
The speed estimates sometimes are not always accurate and sometimes even underestimate what you'll get!
For example last year when I joined TalkTalk FTTC. Those were my speed estimates.

Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 68.2 20 19 62.1 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 80 64.8 20 19 56.6 Available Available

The checker was showing 68.2-80Mbps and for Impacted 64.8-80Mbps.

This year, I don't know whether crosstalk reduced the speed estimates. But this is what it shows now. High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 80 60 20 15 52.9 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 79 54.1 20 12.9 44 Available Available

As you can see, it's pretty big drop 60-80 vs before 68.2-80 and for Impacted 54.1-80Mbps when it was 64.8-80Mbps.

This doesn't seem quite right. Yet, I have synced at 80Mbps download and 20Mbps upload the entire year that I have been with TalkTalk so far!

This year router stats, just now..

Router stats Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 79999 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80904 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 2.80 14.80
Attenuation [dB] 18.00 0.00

Last year it was

Downstream Upstream
Actual Rate [Kbps] 80000 19999
Maximum Rate [Kbps] 80534 19999
Noise Margin [dB] 6.40 15.40
Attenuation [dB] 17.90 0.00

Receiving a slightly higher Maximum rate this year in router stats but lower speed estimates in BT Wholesale checker.

Only difference I can see is this drop in noise margins. 2.80 vs 6.40. Maybe that's the reason for the reduced speed estimates. But so far connection is still maintaining stability with the reduced noise margins.

TalkTalk Speed estimates last year vs this year

Your typical download speed:
48.1Mb - 72.1Mb
Your typical upload speed:
13.2Mb - 18.9Mb
We guarantee you a minimum download speed of 39.8Mb

Your typical download speed:
66.2Mb - 73.6Mb
Your typical upload speed:
17Mb - 18Mb
We guarantee you a minimum download speed of 59.6Mb

Very, very bizarre! It is completely off. But I don't really care as long as I'm still getting 80/20 Mbps that's all that matters! smile
Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Wed 24-Feb-21 11:16:00
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
You are reading too much into all the estimates because they are just that, not actual speeds. They give a range of speeds to cover differences in line quality, interference due to crosstalk etc. The BT checker knows nothing about your SNRM and the max rate figures are just calculated by the modem and don't mean a lot.

ISPs like to cover their backs so tend to state a reduced speed range well below the BT checker estimates.

The truth is that the modem doesn't look at any checkers and will sync at the best speed it can.smile
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Thu 25-Feb-21 05:19:54
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:
You are reading too much into all the estimates because they are just that, not actual speeds. They give a range of speeds to cover differences in line quality, interference due to crosstalk etc. The BT checker knows nothing about your SNRM and the max rate figures are just calculated by the modem and don't mean a lot.

ISPs like to cover their backs so tend to state a reduced speed range well below the BT checker estimates.

The truth is that the modem doesn't look at any checkers and will sync at the best speed it can.smile
Yes, you are right because I also once had briefly for a short couple of months low estimates like 79Mbps max at the BT Wholesale checker. But I was still syncing at 80Mbps and in TalkTalk account it shows UPDATED Speed to your Router Est. speed: 53 Mb - 74 Mb Measured speed: 80 Mb

Other property that we own in Shoreditch, London has lower TalkTalk estimates while cabinet is within 50 meters from the property, only a few seconds walk from the building. And BT Wholesale checker would show minimum 78.7-80Mbps and 19-20Mbps.

Yet this is their TalkTalk checker.
Your typical download speed:
55.5Mb - 61.6Mb
Your typical upload speed:
17Mb - 18Mb
We guarantee you a minimum download speed of 49.9Mb

My checker shows this
Your typical download speed:
66.2Mb - 73.6Mb
Your typical upload speed:
17Mb - 18Mb
We guarantee you a minimum download speed of 59.6Mb

Yet I live within 320 meters from my cabinet vs 50 meters for the other property while they are getting lower predicted speeds!

It really is ridiculous and misguiding especially for someone who is curious to move to another home and wants to know what speeds they'll get.
Standard User broadband66
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Feb-21 11:12:19
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
"It really is ridiculous and misguiding especially for someone who is curious to move to another home and wants to know what speeds they'll get."

You'll never know what the exact speed will be. Internal wiring might be awful but you won't know until you're in a property.

Maybe the meters you're using should be metres then the speed might increase.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
Standard User BLaZiNgSPEED
(member) Fri 26-Feb-21 03:30:28
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Yes, if internal wiring is the cause for the reduced predicted speeds then that would be understandable. But all the flats under the same postcode in the entire residential block shows identical speed estimates, that can't be right.

If it's internal wiring at least we know this can be sorted out or have a new line installed. But of-course if the problem is external such as very long lengths of copper to the cabinet then that is something beyond the users control.

For example here's another observation I have spotted. I live in a high rise 20 floor building. The checker shows identical speed estimates from 1st floor to the 20th floor.

Now I don't see how that can be right when people living in the first floor are meant to be around 60 metres lower than the top floor for my building which, should constitute to increased cabinet distance. There should be at least slight differences in speed estimations even if all are achieving 80Mbps download speeds.

The problem with FTTC is that you will never be 100% certain what speeds you'll get without actually being in the property, like you said.

FTTP will be the only sure way to get the guaranteed speeds without worrying about copper quality and length as that won't be a thing anymore.

Perhaps in the case of the OP with his cabinet at 1.2km distance speed estimates are going to be less accurate. I guess at the end of the day, cabinet distance is a more important factor in determining what speeds you'll get. If cabinet is under 400 metres users should pretty much get 80Mbps. But when it's longer than that then you have to trust to luck and estimator may be less accurate.
Standard User witchunt
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 26-Feb-21 08:28:09
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: BLaZiNgSPEED] [link to this post]
 
Actual speeds can be affected by internal wiring , but the estimated speeds are set to the Distribution Point, which would probably be the same one for the whole building.
Standard User Fastman3
(member) Fri 26-Feb-21 09:13:20
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
based on you being 1.2km from Cab - the difference in speeds indicates you migth be some distance from your Pole or Footway box as speed on FTTC is normaly determined to DP . are you pole fed or Underground Fed, and is so where is your pole / footway box your property is connected to in relation to your property
Standard User marko845
(newbie) Fri 26-Feb-21 13:32:22
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Re: Broadband Availability Checker


[re: Fastman3] [link to this post]
 
Thanks everyone for contributing.

My speeds were simply being 'capped' or to use the official term, my line was 'banded'. The banded profile limited my download speeds to 20mbps maximum, but in reality I was only getting 10-15mbps.

This was against the checker estimating I should get 20-40mbps. Now the banding has been removed, I am getting 25-30mbps. This now seems perfectly reasonable based on the checker estimates and my line distance from the cabinet.

In terms of my line, it enters my property from underground via a grey box near the front.

It took a year of fault investigations and engineer visits for the banding to be discovered/revealed/admitted to by Openreach and the ISP. No fault was every found or identified on my line.

Previously, Openreach would just apologise that I was too far from the cabinet to get higher speeds and push me to purchase FTTP on demand (£17,000)
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