SOGEA line

Any developments on this yet?

Can we expect any savings on the old POTS?

What sort of developments ? It is a reasonably common product these days.

I haven't seen it being offered.

What are the cost advantages for the customer?

Usually little to none.

But it is out there, couldn’t find it directly mentioned on Sky’s website (didn’t look very hard) but a quick Google finds reference to it on their Sky forum ...

https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Talk/Changing-to-SOGEA-...

No idea of any cost implications... don’t use it.






(edit for typo)

Edited by Zarjaz (Wed 10-Mar-21 09:20:52)

So another pointless introduction with no customer benifits then?

It is obviously "out there", but I wonder what the take-up is?

Another pointless introduction?

It is a stepping stone to the switch off of exchange based voice services .... getting the CP ‘match fit’ for when such things become the norm.

Seems like a good idea to me,

It’s not all about cost saving for the customer, these services are provided by private companies, there has to be some profit in it.

Agreed, but if a company is not providing a service, surely it should be cheaper?

It's like IPv6. People aren't going to change, unless there is some benifit to doing so.

If you have a phone line then you might make calls on it - those calls are profitable. With SOGEA there is no chance of the provider getting call revenue. Essentially line providers have spent years subsidising line rental costs with call revenue - once the call revenue goes the subsidy goes so the fact you don't have a voice service is a dis-benefit to the provider rather than a big cost saving for them.

What service aren’t they providing ??

Data, via the router, and voice services, via the router ..... it’s just it’s delivery that has changed.

I am sure we are all in tears at the thought of BT or Sky making a few less pennies.

In reply to a post by hk11:

I am sure we are all in tears at the thought of BT or Sky making a few less pennies.

So your preference would be higher subsidies from the government (so higher taxation on us all) in order to achieve the investment needed to replace the copper with fibre?

It isn't relevant how much money they make the question you asked is why it wasn't cheaper.

POTS.

I didn't think they all offered VOIP; still extra cost for the customer with new phone etc. Even if they do, as I am sure you can't just plug your old phone into. The supplied router.

BT provide VOIP over their supplied router and you do just plug your standard phone into the router.

No.

There would be money available out of profits if there were half a dozen Outreach workers to one call out and higher management took more reasonable pay.

There are probably a number of ways OpenReach and ISPs could reduce costs - but none of them are correlated to the question you asked as to why SOGEA is not cheaper than the "traditional" broadband and line rental.

In reply to a post by ian72:

BT provide VOIP over their supplied router and you do just plug your standard phone into the router.

Same with Sky too ...

In reply to a post by hk11:

No.

There would be money available out of profits if there were half a dozen Outreach workers to one call out and higher management took more reasonable pay.

Not the point you made which was about reducing the profits of the companies haha. Totally different argument about the efficiency of the companies.

I did?

That's good.

Is it the same for all ISPs?

In reply to a post by hk11:

That's good.

Is it the same for all ISPs?

No, though that is due to the ISP’s choice.

Your suggestion that Givernment should fund costs is?

I don't recall bringing Government funding into the equation.

I thought this was a general broadband chat area, not a specific BT one?

In reply to a post by hk11:

I did?

Can we expect any savings on the old POTS?

Agreed, but if a company is not providing a service, surely it should be cheaper?

Edited by ian72 (Wed 10-Mar-21 12:20:11)

In reply to a post by hk11:

Your suggestion that Givernment should fund costs is?

I haven't mentioned the government at all or made any suggestion around them

In reply to a post by hk11:

I thought this was a general broadband chat area, not a specific BT one?

Some ISPs offer it and some don't, BT and Sky have both been mentioned in this thread. I don't know what others offer it but there may well be more.

I don't see the word "why" in there, but maybe I worded something badly?

I was simply asking *was* it, rather than why was* it.

I am obviously imagining things again?

I am sure someone brought the government in. I wish someone would take them out.

In reply to a post by hk11:

I thought this was a general broadband chat area, not a specific BT one?

Why, it’s almost as if you are out to wind folk up isn’t it Keef ?

As Ian correctly points out, both Sky and BT Retail have been mentioned, the first by me, and the second by Ian. So your jibe is somewhat of a damp squib.

I assume things may change as well? Those that currently do, won't and those that currently don't, will?

I wonder what the reason(s) behind offering it or not are?

Do most ISPs even have such a service to offer?

I believe the damp squib got taken over by Talktalk earlier this year.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Any developments on this yet?

Can we expect any savings on the old POTS?

It's a very common product now.

BT and Sky put many of their FTTC customers on SOGEA without any mention of it. The voice is simply supplied via VOIP by connecting your existing home phone to the router rather than the master socket.

Prices tend to be identical to before.

I and others have been warning for a couple years not to expect any (or any significant) savings from SOGEA.

Although there is no "line rental" for the landline to make calls on SOGEA, the underlying OpenReach costs to the ISP is almost identical.
The line is very much still being rented, and needs maintaining.

There are a couple ISP's who sell SOGEA with no VOIP.
It tends to be £1 or £2 a month cheaper, or still the exact same price.

Agreed, but if a company is not providing a service, surely it should be cheaper?

With POTS you pay per call, or for an inclusive amount of minutes.
Same goes for SOGEA with VOIP.

I wouldn't expect SOGEA to be cheaper.

SOGEA isn't a product for customer benefit/reduced cost.
It's too aid with the retirement of the POTS/PSTN system.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 10-Mar-21 13:42:19)

I can give you an example from a broadband provider that we use of the difference in cost.
A SoGEA 80/20 FTTC product is £2 per month ex VAT cheaper than the same product with PSTN line rental.
Just to clarify they are the Wholesale cost.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

I can give you an example from a broadband provider that we use of the difference in cost.
A SoGEA 80/20 FTTC product is £2 per month ex VAT cheaper than the same product with PSTN line rental.
Just to clarify they are the Wholesale cost.

Thanks
Dan

You gave an example without giving the example?

I did say in my post...

There are a couple ISP's who sell SOGEA with no VOIP.
It tends to be £1 or £2 a month cheaper, or still the exact same price.

I'm confused what you mean by a broadband provider you use, then you say that's the wholesale cost.

What exactly do you mean by wholesale cost? To me that would be the cost the provider pays.

surely it should be cheaper?

Apologies, I took that as opening a question and therefore was explaining why it doesn't necessarily reduce the price, sorry if I took that the wrong way and actually it was a rhetorical question that needed no answer.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

That (if passed on to the customer) sounds like a worthwhile saving, if you don't use you current line for telephone calls.

No problem.

It's all too easy to get hot under the collar, when all we want to do is chat and bounce ideas off others.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

I can give you an example from a broadband provider that we use of the difference in cost.
A SoGEA 80/20 FTTC product is £2 per month ex VAT cheaper than the same product with PSTN line rental.
Just to clarify they are the Wholesale cost.

Thanks
Dan

You gave an example without giving the example?

I did say in my post...

There are a couple ISP's who sell SOGEA with no VOIP.
It tends to be £1 or £2 a month cheaper, or still the exact same price.

I'm confused what you mean by a broadband provider you use, then you say that's the wholesale cost.

What exactly do you mean by wholesale cost? To me that would be the cost the provider pays.

The example is in the next line.
The wholesale cost is what we pay, we then add our profit on before we charge the customer.
We are given an RRP for the products, the RRP for SoGEA FTTC is £39.95 + VAT and for PSTN rental and FTCC it is £41.45+VAT.
These are also the prices the provider charges if you were to buy it from them directly.

Thanks
Dan

Thanks Dan

I posted saying SOGEA without VOIP from a couple providers is £1-2 a month cheaper than broadband with POTS.

You replied to me saying I can give an example from a provider of a difference in cost.
I was really expecting you to post the company in question, not the exact same example pricing I had quoted and you were replying to.

Most posters on here are consumers.
Those who are not tend to disclose within their post that they aren't specifically discussing consumer pricing.
I try my best but I can't read minds yet.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

I posted saying SOGEA without VOIP from a couple providers is £1-2 a month cheaper than broadband with POTS.

You replied to me saying I can give an example from a provider of a difference in cost.
I was really expecting you to post the company in question, not the exact same example pricing I had quoted and you were replying to.

Most posters on here are consumers.
Those who are not tend to disclose within their post that they aren't specifically discussing consumer pricing.
I try my best but I can't read minds yet.

I don't say that I work for a broadband reseller as all my views on here are my own and are in no way endorsed by the company.
The figures aren't exactly what you said as you said it was £1-2 cheaper, I didn't just copy what you said, I got exact costs.

Thanks
Dan

My figures were exact. I could/should have been clearer.

1 provider is £1 a month cheaper.
A different provider is £2 a month cheaper.

No need to post the company if you don't wish to.

I was simply suggesting it would have been clearer if you mentioned you were discussing prices as a reseller.

I think most people who read...

an example from a broadband provider that we use of the difference in cost

will assume you mean the price you pay as a consumer.

The mention of wholesale costs, at the same time as mentioning buying from a broadband provider, without additional context, is extremely confusing.

It's all clear now

Apart from a business we all pay vat inclusive so why not include vat inclusive costs?

A question mark constitutes a question therefore your question was answered.

"if there were half a dozen Outreach workers to one call out"

??????

EE offer SOGEA as "Fibre Without Landline". It is £2 / month cheaper than "With Landline". All it is is that you don't get any landline number nor any dialing tone. Bang goes any tests for noise on line.

You can still use BTW Availability Checker and Speedtest using other ID nos. you can get from your ISP.

Good point about the "noise on the line" test.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It's all clear now

We can't be on the right thread or even forum then, as nothing is ever clear in this "game".

In reply to a post by hk11:

Any developments on this yet?

Can we expect any savings on the old POTS?

When you say developments? It exists, people like idnet offer it. It's a little cheaper - but don't expect the entire line rental to disappear - the copper pair still exists.

HK

what a stupid ridiculous ill informed unhelpful comment

mind those chips on your shoulder

Eh?

Assuming you mean to punctuate your reply some how.

Stupid? For me to ask a question in the forum? Yes; God forbid anyone should do that!

Ridiculous? I don't know why you would think that.

Ill informed? Surely that is the reason to ask a question?

Unhelpful? Yes, your comment, certainly is.

Chips? I don't have any on my shoulder, but good of you to look out for them.

Just odd I haven't seen any mention of it, that's all.

I'll have a Google for idnet SOFEA: thanks.

I realise that this thread is a few weeks old, but I've just migrated to an iDNET SOGEA FTTC service and their pricing (as of 15th March) does offer a reasonable saving now:

40/10 - £30 compared with £38.40 inc VAT
80/20 - £36 compared with £45.60 inc VAT

Interestingly(?) the phone service charge is dependent on the broadband product (£7+VAT for 40/10, £8+VAT for 80/20 and £10+VAT for the 80/20 'Plus' service)

Edited by ferretuk (Sat 01-May-21 19:51:55)

Interesting.

Thanks.