Who to complain to at BT/Openreach?

Hi all

Does anyone know who I need to complain to regarding the non availability of fibre optic broadband where I live? It's a total nightmare we can only get adsl2+ and speeds of up to 8mbps.
Openreach engineers visit the Close where I live on a weekly basis to carry out repair after repair after repair after repair.
It would be more cost effective to just replace the tin wire with new cable and bring us into the 21st century.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

Hi all

Does anyone know who I need to complain to regarding the non availability of fibre optic broadband where I live? It's a total nightmare we can only get adsl2+ and speeds of up to 8mbps.
Openreach engineers visit the Close where I live on a weekly basis to carry out repair after repair after repair after repair.
It would be more cost effective to just replace the tin wire with new cable and bring us into the 21st century.

One thing you need to remember, there are many others who have the same thing happening in their street everyday, Openreach are not going to suddenly rollout full fibre just because of this issue otherwise everyone would be complaining.

I reckon a complaint to the openreach CEO would probably get the quickest response.

And what will he say? Probably, "thanks for the email, we are rolling out FTTP as fast as we are able." Unlikely to ask his installation planners to change things round because of one email

Yes I appreciate that there will be many others in a similar situation as me.
I am in the local authority's 0.04% of households who get under 10mbps speed.
It just frustrates me as fibre optic cable is 100 metres away but BT/Openreach won't join us to it.

Edited by deleted (Mon 15-Mar-21 18:35:58)

In reply to a post by MHC:

And what will he say? Probably, "thanks for the email, we are rolling out FTTP as fast as we are able." Unlikely to ask his installation planners to change things round because of one email

Yes I agree with you, was thinking I could get other residents to complain as well.
Also just wanted to let the powers that be know we are unhappy otherwise they will have no idea.
At least we would have told them.
The worst part is when I read of areas with fibre being upgraded further! that is a real sickener.

Over two years ago I moved into my current property and noticed FTTC wasn't available, yet next road over was connected to a cabinet where it was. I sent a polite email to CEO of Openreach, they had a look into it and through whatever magic they did enabled my street for FTTC by connecting us to the cabinet serving that other road. It took a number of months, though now we have FTTP in the street.

Send this gentleman a nice email and they maybe able to have a look and see whats what.

[removed by tbb]

At the very least he or his team will be able to establish the reasons why you can only get get the speeds you have.

Edited by seb (Mon 02-Feb-26 21:44:09)

100m! If you think that is close the situation here has been worse for years.

Virgin Media and their predecessor laid fibre along my road and the immediate neighbour has/had service from them. The small access port on the footpath is right on the boundary and they were cheeky enough to run cable along MY wall. I am millimetres away from their access point, but they refused to install service to me as "your front garden is too long".

In reply to a post by chud51161:

Hi all

Does anyone know who I need to complain to regarding the non availability of fibre optic broadband where I live? It's a total nightmare we can only get adsl2+ and speeds of up to 8mbps.
Openreach engineers visit the Close where I live on a weekly basis to carry out repair after repair after repair after repair.
It would be more cost effective to just replace the tin wire with new cable and bring us into the 21st century.

A complaint is the wrong way to go about it. Like a lot of people in your position you seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking that openreach are ignoring you or even spiting you.

They aren't. They would love to provide you with a better connection - not just because they want to provide you with the best service possible but also because, as you point out, your current line is costing them money to repair.

The reason openreach haven't upgraded you is because of the difficulty and/or the expense. For instance they would rather spend their money where it will do more good which probably means where it will benefit more people. If you were in charge and had £100k to spend would you spend it upgrading half a dozen houses or would you spend it upgrading a hundred? Or maybe there's a local landowner refusing to cooperate but perhaps a friendly chat with their neighbours would soften their heart.

It's unfortunate for you but complaining to openreach is the wrong way to start a discussion. You need to approach it in the spirit of cooperation and under the assumption that openreach are almost as annoyed about your situation as you are.

Edited by Andrue (Mon 15-Mar-21 18:52:28)

Well said Andrue

That's the best course of action. I have seen people get very positive results after contacting the CEO directly.

In reply to a post by rogan8:

That's the best course of action. I have seen people get very positive results after contacting the CEO directly.

Had a lot of problems with my connection,got nowhere using normal channels,so went to the top,contacted OR then CEO Sir Michal Rake(think my memory is right with name), got my line moved & rerouted,plus a D side swop in roughly a fortnight.

Edited by Nightglow (Mon 15-Mar-21 22:01:45)

contacted OR then CEO Sir Micheal Rake(think my memory is right with name)

I think he predated Openreach by quite some way.

I was in the same position with endless faults, extremely unstable line etc etc.

I basically set out to become a total nuisance to everyone until it was resolved, and now I have FTTP.

I started with my local parish council who asked me to represent them, got several councillors to raise it in their county counsel meetings. Contacted my MP, then contacted the opposition who were more than willing to fight against them. Contacted several local newspapers and had articles published. After that I managed to find numerous contacts through the county counsel, working my way up to more senior people and emailed them non stop. Eventually I managed to get them to redirect some funds from some money that was recouped from an earlier phase and include our properties as part of BDUK.

It took so long because the main councillor who I was dealing with lost his seat and we almost had to start again with the new one. It also has to be all above board and show value for money etc for BDUK, so lots of paperwork.

It took 2 long years, endless hours of work and more emails than I care to count but got there in the end.

Sir Mike was bt chairman 2007-2017, followed by Jan du Plessis 2017-2021.
Both Sir Mike and Jansen came from Worldpay which just goes to show it's one big merry go round at the top.

Edited by deleted (Tue 16-Mar-21 08:39:00)

So from what you have said it was the local BDUK claw back that paid for your infrastructure upgrade not Openreach so the OP should be complaining to BDUK not Openreach.

I had to go that route unfortunately. I had a year long fault raised with Openreach, 30 odd engineer visits, contacted the CEO etc etc. They then said it was REIN and refused to do anything about it even though the final REIN specialist's report said there were no signs. They replaced a stretch of cable and later on another stretch after other locals had problems, but ultimately it was a shame that they were either forced to or happy to just constantly throw money at old tech and endless engineer visits rather than moving forward.

Unfortunately my hands were tied, switching to another ISP obviously wouldn't have made a difference so only route I could go was pester the council.

Then again i've had some extremely helpful people who work for Openreach on here help me out on several occasions so i'm not just bashing them.

Didn’t realise he left as recently as that.

Have you looked into the community fibre partnership route? If a number of people are fed up with speeds and willing to commit then this may give you a solution.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Have you looked into the community fibre partnership route? If a number of people are fed up with speeds and willing to commit then this may give you a solution.

Yes my council tell me a fibre infrastructure has been set up in my village but they don't want to take the plunge and take it to me in a cul de sac with 38 properties.

I have informed the secretary of the co-operative that was set up that 20+ residents would potentially be interested and he has approached various fibre optic parties but as yet no news.

The amount of money Openreach spend each year in visits to the Close could have easily paid for a complete re wiring/new start and then some, it's pathetic.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by ian72:

Have you looked into the community fibre partnership route? If a number of people are fed up with speeds and willing to commit then this may give you a solution.

Yes my council tell me a fibre infrastructure has been set up in my village but they don't want to take the plunge and take it to me in a cul de sac with 38 properties.

Your answer confused me you said 'yes' you have looked into a Community Fibre Partnership but then you talk about the local council, Ian was referring to an Openreach Community Fibre Partnership which is done between your local community and Openreach, you local community contribute toward a FTTP deployment it has nothing to do with your local council.

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

Hi all

Does anyone know who I need to complain to regarding the non availability of fibre optic broadband where I live? It's a total nightmare we can only get adsl2+ and speeds of up to 8mbps.
Openreach engineers visit the Close where I live on a weekly basis to carry out repair after repair after repair after repair.
It would be more cost effective to just replace the tin wire with new cable and bring us into the 21st century.

A complaint is the wrong way to go about it. Like a lot of people in your position you seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking that openreach are ignoring you or even spiting you.

They aren't. They would love to provide you with a better connection - not just because they want to provide you with the best service possible but also because, as you point out, your current line is costing them money to repair.

The reason openreach haven't upgraded you is because of the difficulty and/or the expense. For instance they would rather spend their money where it will do more good which probably means where it will benefit more people. If you were in charge and had £100k to spend would you spend it upgrading half a dozen houses or would you spend it upgrading a hundred? Or maybe there's a local landowner refusing to cooperate but perhaps a friendly chat with their neighbours would soften their heart.

It's unfortunate for you but complaining to openreach is the wrong way to start a discussion. You need to approach it in the spirit of cooperation and under the assumption that openreach are almost as annoyed about your situation as you are.

If I was in charge I would look at financial costs. To send out Openreach/Kelly Communications guys weekly to try and repair a broadband structure built of "tin wires" as there was a copper shortage in the 70's when house was built is a complete waste of time and money.

Openreach must spend thousands upon thousands of pounds each year and since I first enquired about fibre optic the money Openreach have spent here could have bought a third world country.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by ian72:

Have you looked into the community fibre partnership route? If a number of people are fed up with speeds and willing to commit then this may give you a solution.

Yes my council tell me a fibre infrastructure has been set up in my village but they don't want to take the plunge and take it to me in a cul de sac with 38 properties.

Your answer confused me you said 'yes' you have looked into a Community Fibre Partnership but then you talk about the local council, Ian was referring to an Openreach Community Fibre Partnership which is done between your local community and Openreach, you local community contribute toward a FTTP deployment it has nothing to do with your local council.

Sorry to mislead you.
My local council in conjunction with the NHS and government have formed a co-operative to make fibre optic broadband available to the community.
Unfortunately this is tailored towards businesses and residents such as I are trodden on and overlooked.
Apparently it's a set up similar to that of B4RN in the rural countryside with speeds upto 1gbps

What your council are doing is irrelevant to a Community Fibre Partnership. You can look into making it happen rather than waiting for other people to do it for you. It is possible that the cost would be above what people are willing to pay but you may also find that with vouchers you might be able to get it for very low cost - only way to find out is to start a conversation with BT around a CFP and then if it is viable drum up support from your neighbours.

Google 'Openreach Community Fibre Partnership' then discuss with you local community and if you're in agreement get a quote.

In reply to a post by ian72:

What your council are doing is irrelevant to a Community Fibre Partnership. You can look into making it happen rather than waiting for other people to do it for you. It is possible that the cost would be above what people are willing to pay but you may also find that with vouchers you might be able to get it for very low cost - only way to find out is to start a conversation with BT around a CFP and then if it is viable drum up support from your neighbours.

We see a lot of people complaining on here about poor broadband and how important good broadband is to them but a lot don't want to pay for it to be improved so the only option is to wait it out until the commercial rollout gets to them which could be a while.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by ian72:

What your council are doing is irrelevant to a Community Fibre Partnership. You can look into making it happen rather than waiting for other people to do it for you. It is possible that the cost would be above what people are willing to pay but you may also find that with vouchers you might be able to get it for very low cost - only way to find out is to start a conversation with BT around a CFP and then if it is viable drum up support from your neighbours.

We see a lot of people complaining on here about poor broadband and how important good broadband is to them but a lot don't want to pay for it to be improved so the only option is to wait it out until the commercial rollout gets to them which could be a while.

Sage words Dect ..... you come across it all too often, make people aware that they can, with a little input, resolve the situation ... but they’d rather just whine and moan.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by ian72:

What your council are doing is irrelevant to a Community Fibre Partnership. You can look into making it happen rather than waiting for other people to do it for you. It is possible that the cost would be above what people are willing to pay but you may also find that with vouchers you might be able to get it for very low cost - only way to find out is to start a conversation with BT around a CFP and then if it is viable drum up support from your neighbours.

We see a lot of people complaining on here about poor broadband and how important good broadband is to them but a lot don't want to pay for it to be improved so the only option is to wait it out until the commercial rollout gets to them which could be a while.

True of the wider market. From all the press and forums you'd think that the entire country was desperate for high speed broadband but then you look at the take-up figures for various packages and realise that only a small minority are choosing the fastest package available to them.

I don't blame people though. When it comes down to it how many people really need more than 20Mb/s per resident at a given property? Most could get by quite happily on half that. Most of the wining seems to come from gamers having to download large patches. Well they could go and put the kettle on while waiting, download in advance or maybe moan to the developers to get them to split their games into more manageable chunks.

Progress is good but my sympathies always lie with people like the OP. They don't have an adequate connection and are being left behind by the drive to supply everyone else with something they don't currently need or want.

Edited by Andrue (Fri 19-Mar-21 15:48:21)

In reply to a post by Andrue:

my sympathies always lie with people like the OP. They don't have an adequate connection and are being left behind by the drive to supply everyone else with something they don't currently need or want.

You never hear me moaning about my broadband here and the OP's speed is lighting fast compared to mine

As I say, people should either cough up or shut up and thats what I've chosen to do.

chud

sugges you look at a community fibre partnership - the cost of dealing with the copper is nothing to do with FTTP as even if you community had FTTP the copper would remain

the cost of dealing with the copper is nothing to do with FTTP as even if you community had FTTP the copper would remain

Of course if everyone or even a significant number moved from copper to FTTP if it were available there would be fewer copper repair visits.
In reality though even within openreach there are different budgets for different activities so there is little incentive locally to upgrade . Those decisions are made elsewhere and probably dont take into account ongoing copper repair costs.

Post deleted by seb

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by ian72:

What your council are doing is irrelevant to a Community Fibre Partnership. You can look into making it happen rather than waiting for other people to do it for you. It is possible that the cost would be above what people are willing to pay but you may also find that with vouchers you might be able to get it for very low cost - only way to find out is to start a conversation with BT around a CFP and then if it is viable drum up support from your neighbours.

We see a lot of people complaining on here about poor broadband and how important good broadband is to them but a lot don't want to pay for it to be improved so the only option is to wait it out until the commercial rollout gets to them which could be a while.

True of the wider market. From all the press and forums you'd think that the entire country was desperate for high speed broadband but then you look at the take-up figures for various packages and realise that only a small minority are choosing the fastest package available to them.

I don't blame people though. When it comes down to it how many people really need more than 20Mb/s per resident at a given property? Most could get by quite happily on half that. Most of the wining seems to come from gamers having to download large patches. Well they could go and put the kettle on while waiting, download in advance or maybe moan to the developers to get them to split their games into more manageable chunks.

Progress is good but my sympathies always lie with people like the OP. They don't have an adequate connection and are being left behind by the drive to supply everyone else with something they don't currently need or want.

thanks for your support. to dect I have COUGHED up through my taxes to the government who fund BT.

some quotes on the bbc website from people in response to ofcoms new ruling this week;
45 years behind most of Europe. 50 Years behind developed Asia. This isn't fantastic world beating news - it's a National embarrassment!

How many times is this that BT has been paid by Gov to install fibre?

Improve broadband infrastructure and the need for HS2 diminishes - as more and more people will be able to work effectively from home, reducing the need to shave a few minutes off commuting times for £100B.

Interesting that HS2 is paid for by Government (i.e. us) and the fibre-roll out will be able to be profited from by the company that was gifted our telephone infrastructure on privatisation.

Ditch HS2, turbo-charge full fibre rollout with £20 billion more funding, and save £80 billion+ from ditching a white elephant project.

Working in the industry I have to work with BT a lot. It's like working with a company from the 1970's. They're still a monolithic monopoly as the majority of the infrastructure is still theirs. If there's a hold up, it's always at BTs end.
They should be broken up completely. The Govt has bottled this decision.

I once tried getting BT Broadband and had 6 weeks of total incompetence from them and it never worked. They would disconnect the landline trying to fix it at the exchange then insist the problem must be in my home. The Indian call centre insisted I keep resetting the router until it works. I ended up getting £400 compenstation from them for my wasted time.

So thanks for nothing. I live in a village, and if It want more than a few megs through the long copper wire that leads to the box, I will have to pay through the nose for it.

Well of course you'll build like fury now you can charge what you like. Not so keen when you couldn't fleece people more than you do already. Same old broken Britain.

Hmm, not sure the regulator knows how the economics of this work

OpenReach say they will build fast but why rush when there is more money to be made (and saved) by taking it slowly?

A slower roll-out of fast fibre holds customers to ransom (pushes up prices through scarcity) and reduces the cost of building a network (going slowly reduces annual costs).

Worked for housebuilders - why not here?
BT monopolised our street until a few years ago with something the Broadband choices image above does not show - aluminium line.
Suffice it it say our ADSL speeds were not much better than dial up, but that did not stop rip-off BT charging us the same line rental rate as everyone else.
When 4G internet came out it was our greatest pleasue to give BT the giant middle finger and sign up with Three.

Let’s hope BT Open Reach get their contractors in order over their approach to digging holes everywhere and knackering up the pavements, parking their vans all over the place. hazards for disabled people the blind and parents with buggies and push chairs. When they were in our street recently the supervisor was smoking joints everyday and then driving off site.

Most people just want broadband and not calls - we have mobiles for that.

The compulsory subscription to calls just to get Internet access should be banned.

Get your facts right. BT is NOT funded by the Government. No iffs, not but, they are NOT government funded.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

thanks for your support. to dect I have COUGHED up through my taxes to the government who fund BT.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/defa...

https://www.bt.com/bt-plc/assets/documents/about-bt/...

https://moneyweek.com/417238/3-december-1984-bt-is-s...

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Sat 20-Mar-21 18:47:33)

4:30 is a bit early to be drinking, even on a Saturday isn't it?

Chud

just so were clear - some govenrnment was secured as part of Match funding under BDUK , (which means that was a mix of public and private monies (that was to provided defined scope for defined premises identified by External Market Review based on the Contract specification (in the same way as other vendors have since done such as Gigaclear in CDS and others, you can only spend money in area where market has deemed to have failed. comment about HS2 prove you know nothing about why that is .and what it will achieve - looking at this ill informed rant as that what it is it seems you have done nothing to help your community and intend think you are entitled to ultrafast Broadband by right . so i suggest you ask some of these companies you work with to rock and fibre your area and based on a 20 years payback and there wonder why they dont . If you live in a village i would have been very surprised the village had no looked at community fibre partnership already with Openreach - whereabouts in the country are you

Try your Parish Council. They will probably support you to District Council who will probably support you to County. Who have real power.
Why would they? - Maybe because that is what they are there for - and if not because local elections are coming up and they want to be active and get good press.
The Parish Council will be running meetings on Zoom. Email the Parish clerk (look up your Parish website for email address...) and they will send you the link and put you on the agenda.
As a local resident you can raise anything you like and they will discuss it. There will normally be a district councillor on the call as well, and possibly a county councillor.
Moan at them!

In reply to a post by johnankrett:

Try your Parish Council. They will probably support you to District Council who will probably support you to County. Who have real power.
Why would they? - Maybe because that is what they are there for - and if not because local elections are coming up and they want to be active and get good press.
The Parish Council will be running meetings on Zoom. Email the Parish clerk (look up your Parish website for email address...) and they will send you the link and put you on the agenda.
As a local resident you can raise anything you like and they will discuss it. There will normally be a district councillor on the call as well, and possibly a county councillor.
Moan at them!

Having seen A Parish Council make up with the Jackie Weaver saga I will give it a miss thank you.

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

Chud

just so were clear - some govenrnment was secured as part of Match funding under BDUK , (which means that was a mix of public and private monies (that was to provided defined scope for defined premises identified by External Market Review based on the Contract specification (in the same way as other vendors have since done such as Gigaclear in CDS and others, you can only spend money in area where market has deemed to have failed. comment about HS2 prove you know nothing about why that is .and what it will achieve - looking at this ill informed rant as that what it is it seems you have done nothing to help your community and intend think you are entitled to ultrafast Broadband by right . so i suggest you ask some of these companies you work with to rock and fibre your area and based on a 20 years payback and there wonder why they dont . If you live in a village i would have been very surprised the village had no looked at community fibre partnership already with Openreach - whereabouts in the country are you

My local council are aware of the situation and have set up a cooperative to bring a fibre infrastructure to the village. However I live on the edge of the village and can't get access to fibre.
I have raised my case with the cooperative who have informed there members who are working out costings to bring fibre into my cul-de-sac. However this was a while ago so I think I have been forgotten.

I wonder how joe public would react if those who have not been offered the 1st covid jab get overlooked and those who have had one already get offered a 2nd.
It's the same with fibre, some areas of the country that have it already are being upgraded further while those without are left to suffer (but still paying top dollar for crawling adsl2)

Edited by deleted (Sun 21-Mar-21 20:36:47)

In reply to a post by chud51161:

I wonder how joe public would react if those who have not been offered the 1st covid jab get overlooked and those who have had one already get offered a 2nd.

None of your comparisons make any sense.

2.2 million people have already had their second jab and the speed that they are being done is accelerating.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

I wonder how joe public would react if those who have not been offered the 1st covid jab get overlooked and those who have had one already get offered a 2nd.

None of your comparisons make any sense.

2.2 million people have already had their second jab and the speed that they are being done is accelerating.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

Okay in layman's terms I am questioning why council tax payers who have rubbish copper wire broadband are not being offered the chance to upgrade to fibre when those that have been upgraded to fibre are now being given a further upgrade to faster fibre.
Those on slow connections are being punished and left to die a slow death as far as internet service goes. No point in buying hi-tech state of the art electronic equipment if it can't be used to it's full capabilities.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

However I live on the edge of the village and can't get access to fibre.
I have raised my case with the cooperative who have informed there members who are working out costings to bring fibre into my cul-de-sac. However this was a while ago so I think I have been forgotten.

Before I stopped working, one of the easiest questions for my boss to ask when I was complaining was "And what have you done about it". In this case, if you think you have been forgotten, have you given anyone a prod to remind them that you are still here? It is harder than having a rant when sitting at the keyboard but may be more productive.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Before I stopped working, one of the easiest questions for my boss to ask when I was complaining was "And what have you done about it".

Sign of a good manager, another one is 'Don't bring me problems bring me solutions.'

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

However I live on the edge of the village and can't get access to fibre.
I have raised my case with the cooperative who have informed there members who are working out costings to bring fibre into my cul-de-sac. However this was a while ago so I think I have been forgotten.

Before I stopped working, one of the easiest questions for my boss to ask when I was complaining was "And what have you done about it". In this case, if you think you have been forgotten, have you given anyone a prod to remind them that you are still here? It is harder than having a rant when sitting at the keyboard but may be more productive.

yes I have moved on from e-mail to phone conversation, must just be a time thing as I am sure someone knows about it but maybe they are working on other things that bring in more income.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

I wonder how joe public would react if those who have not been offered the 1st covid jab get overlooked and those who have had one already get offered a 2nd.

None of your comparisons make any sense.

2.2 million people have already had their second jab and the speed that they are being done is accelerating.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

Okay in layman's terms I am questioning why council tax payers who have rubbish copper wire broadband are not being offered the chance to upgrade to fibre when those that have been upgraded to fibre are now being given a further upgrade to faster fibre.
Those on slow connections are being punished and left to die a slow death as far as internet service goes. No point in buying hi-tech state of the art electronic equipment if it can't be used to it's full capabilities.

No-one is being 'punished'. You need to get that idea out of your head. It's not helpful to your situation.

The people on the slowest connections are on those connections because providing them with a service is more difficult/expensive. People on the better connections are on those connections because providing them with a service is easier/cheaper.

That's the way it's always been and always will be. I tried to explain that to you before. If you were a network planner with £100k to spend and had two choices which would you pick:

* Location A - poor current speed availability. The money will help a hundred people. It will take at least a decade for your employer to get their money back.

* Location B - good current speed availability. The money will help a thousand people. Your employer will probably get their money back in a couple of years.

This decision has been behind every infrastructure roll-out programme since human beings first invented urbanisation. The same decision had to be made in the past for locations A & B and that's why they are in the state they are in today.

You have a [censored] connection because you are difficult/expensive to serve and Openreach (and other CPs) can improve more lives by spending their money elsewhere. It's not your fault. It's not their fault. It's just the way the world is and probably always will be.

Edited by Andrue (Tue 23-Mar-21 22:17:02)

To take your point one stage further.

Do location A and get the return in 2 years, then do Location B with the recovered capital. Resulting in both A&B done in just over two years.

Do location B and then after 10 years location A - meaning to get both A & B completed with take 10+ years or five times as long.

It is a totally logical approach - although in reality a little more complex. With from "very easy to implement and immediate recovery" through several more stages of ease or difficulty and short to long return times to the very difficult. But ultimately everyone will win in the shortest time and at near lowest cost.

Oh My God!!!!! OMG!
Woke up this morning and saw a piece of wood in the ground with a piece of paper flapping about attached to it.
Thought what's that. Went to have a look and its a letter from Openreach saying they propose to put up a telegraph pole so it looks like someone somewhere is doing something!
Not mad on overhead cables though which is a bummer but if it brings fibre to my property so be it.

whole plethora of reasons what might be being done and many reasons why perhaps it did not get done -- lets hope no one objects to the pole - you be surprised how many don and then complain why they are not covered

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

whole plethora of reasons what might be being done and many reasons why perhaps it did not get done -- lets hope no one objects to the pole - you be surprised how many don and then complain why they are not covered

yeah im sure someone will complain its what life is all about complaining.
it looks like an Openreach attempt to do the work on the cheap instead of digging up the earth and fitting suitable ducting but at least someone at Openreach now acknowledges we have [censored] broadband. come to think of it maybe its just a replacement for the aluminium cables we now have.

been working on a plan b and I can get 35-40mbps speed through 4g as a local mast is in sight not too far away and probably faster with an outdoor antennae.

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Mar-21 17:58:28)

So, which one of the regulars here are you sending the bottles of wine to? Someone may well have nudged OR to get their response and you are now seeing the OR response.




p.s. I prefer red, from S Africa or Argentina.

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, which one of the regulars here are you sending the bottles of wine to? Someone may well have nudged OR to get their response and you are now seeing the OR response.




p.s. I prefer red, from S Africa or Argentina.

ha ha nice try I don't recall making available my location so it can only be ME who has stirred Openreach into doing some graft.

Edited by deleted (Wed 24-Mar-21 18:14:26)

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, which one of the regulars here are you sending the bottles of wine to? Someone may well have nudged OR to get their response and you are now seeing the OR response.




p.s. I prefer red, from S Africa or Argentina.

With the right software and ability to fully analyse your posts, easy enough to find your IP at a specific time, then ask Google where the IP is located and to within a house or two ... EASY



ha ha nice try I don't recall making available my location so it can only be ME who has stirred Openreach into doing some graft.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, which one of the regulars here are you sending the bottles of wine to? Someone may well have nudged OR to get their response and you are now seeing the OR response.




p.s. I prefer red, from S Africa or Argentina.

With the right software and ability to fully analyse your posts, easy enough to find your IP at a specific time, then ask Google where the IP is located and to within a house or two ... EASY



ha ha nice try I don't recall making available my location so it can only be ME who has stirred Openreach into doing some graft.

Okay fair enough you tell me where I live and provide me with proof you got Openreach to my area and I will buy you a bottle of wine no problem.

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

whole plethora of reasons what might be being done and many reasons why perhaps it did not get done -- lets hope no one objects to the pole - you be surprised how many don and then complain why they are not covered

the massively outrageous costs of continually deploying Openreach engineer after engineer after engineer on a weekly basis over one year has finally been noticed by someone "upstairs".
updating our aluminium connection to fibre is well overdue, hurrah

In reply to a post by chud51161:

a letter from Openreach saying they propose to put up a telegraph pole

What exactly does the notice say?

chud

i not convinced whether your are generally arguermenttive of just plan unhelpful or deliberaly confrontational or a mix of all of the above


your comment it looks like an Openreach attempt to do the work on the cheap instead of digging up the earth and fitting suitable ducting but at least someone at Openreach now acknowledges we have [censored] broadband. come to think of it maybe its just a replacement for the aluminium cables we now have.

Lest be clear -- the copper wont be replaced or changed regardless if they deliver FTTP
the cost of Civlling the estate in footway or carriageway will be multiple time the cost of poles (so sure openreach woudl accept a personal cheuque from you of the XK difference between poles and underground if you so wished to have it underground (there is a formal place on openreach website that deals with thaT-

so you better hopE that no one object to to poles or you back at square 1

If i was a betting man i bet it never gont done in the first place due to cost or pole objection

The news of the recent pole notice leads to many other questions (that we could all think of) to try and work out if it really is FTTP on the way, just one pole notice and no detail of what it says is not conclusive proof.

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 12:13:00)

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

chud

i not convinced whether your are generally arguermenttive of just plan unhelpful or deliberaly confrontational or a mix of all of the above


your comment it looks like an Openreach attempt to do the work on the cheap instead of digging up the earth and fitting suitable ducting but at least someone at Openreach now acknowledges we have [censored] broadband. come to think of it maybe its just a replacement for the aluminium cables we now have.

Lest be clear -- the copper wont be replaced or changed regardless if they deliver FTTP
the cost of Civlling the estate in footway or carriageway will be multiple time the cost of poles (so sure openreach woudl accept a personal cheuque from you of the XK difference between poles and underground if you so wished to have it underground (there is a formal place on openreach website that deals with thaT-

so you better hopE that no one object to to poles or you back at square 1

If i was a betting man i bet it never gont done in the first place due to cost or pole objection

Thanks for your input nah I'm not confrontational at all just can't understand Openreachs way of working. As I have said they visit the place I live on a weekly basis which is costing them thousands upon thousands of pounds each year. Nobody I will repeat nobody at Openreach is looking at the costings of all this, if they were someone would get sacked it's ridiculous.

I don't live in an area that is rural or one that has lots of properties and not an estate. The residents here will dig the earth up and fit new ducting ourselves, no cost to Openreach. All they have to do is fit the fibre cable and install it into residents homes who ask for it, simples.

Maybe Clive Selley at OR has passed on my concerns to Matt Davies and now he has realised the startling waste of money and got someone onto it. We have a co-operative fibre network where I live and a member of that are thinking of setting up a network so maybe OR have thought omg we best get in quick or lose out on the revenue. And yes OR are doing this on the cheap for sure, basically its a botch job isn't it. If they wouldn't have botched the initial setting up of phone lines by not putting ducting down we wouldn't be discussing it here. Overhead cables for internet went out of fashion with black and white tv.

It never got done cos OR are thickos who don't know their [censored] from their elbow. Never ever have we been notified of poles going up previously so nobody has objected. Sure if they object and OR decide not to erect poles we will be back to square one BUT now they are aware of the need for fibre. They will then have to pull their finger out and get digging some new ducting as fibre is deffo coming to my residence in 2021!

I have been checking out 4g and can get that at 40mbps speeds which is miles better than adsl2+.

Thanks for your input

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 13:09:07)

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 13:10:42)

A few years ago I emailed the CEO of Openreach with a similar issue. Often I got rejected, but on the final occasion he replied personally (other rejections were from his staff) and the position of 'not economically viable' on 3 cabinets locally suddenly changed to getting FTTC/fibre to the cab installed.

Some here said it had nothing to do with the email (although the same people previously supported openreach's not economically viable message and advised I should get the community to fund it ourselves).

Strange that the CodeLook website lists the cabinet upgrade as Phase CEO Escalation 19a - so obviously nothing to do with my email, just the CEO decided to update it himself, but decided to copy me into an email with the head of fibre deployment.

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=5...

We had a good coverage for Virgin in the area before any update was applied - but my experience of them locally was terrible, hence why I decided to keep asking to get fibre.

In reply to a post by kebabselector:

A few years ago I emailed the CEO of Openreach with a similar issue. Often I got rejected, but on the final occasion he replied personally (other rejections were from his staff) and the position of 'not economically viable' on 3 cabinets locally suddenly changed to getting FTTC/fibre to the cab installed.

Some here said it had nothing to do with the email (although the same people previously supported openreach's not economically viable message and advised I should get the community to fund it ourselves).

Strange that the CodeLook website lists the cabinet upgrade as Phase CEO Escalation 19a - so obviously nothing to do with my email, just the CEO decided to update it himself, but decided to copy me into an email with the head of fibre deployment.

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=5...

We had a good coverage for Virgin in the area before any update was applied - but my experience of them locally was terrible, hence why I decided to keep asking to get fibre.

Well done that's great to read, shame the current CEO is not the one who helped you.

I'm thinking lots of posters on here are Openreach staff trying to put the public off getting fibre without coughing up for part of the build lol

possibly shareholders

Post deleted by seb

You have clearly made 1 and 1 equal 3, from a simple pole notice you have concocted a full fibre rollout to your area, It takes weeks if not months to go through the process of planning before then starting the build phase. If you honestly believe you can complain to Openreach on a Monday about your broadband and they are out putting pole notices up on Friday then you are living on another planet. Whatever is the cause of the pole notice its not down to anything you have done since you started this thread.

The abuse you are giving out clearly shows your immaturity, it may make you feel a big man but it has the opposite affect on all those reading your childish posts.

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 14:55:22)

Looking at the date those cabinet were connected I would guess it was the same current CEO

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 16:12:20)

I will continue to post here if and when I please, this thread may have been started by you but it's not owned by you, just try to remember it isn't a ball over the the playground that you can pick up and take home when you start losing the game.

In reply to a post by kebabselector:

possibly shareholders

yes of course!

Post deleted by seb

Wow, now started another thread calling me names, first its was the threat of violence now name calling, you really are acting like a 2 year old.

Happy for the moderators to review all my posts to you and your posts to me (including your threat of violence that was deleted by them) and see who is the aggressor here and whoever they think is the aggressor should be banned. If they think its me fair enough but my money is on you.

Post deleted by seb

So we can add lying to the your threats and name calling, below is the deleted post by seb that had the threat of violence in it

In reply to a post by chud51161:

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 18:56:00)

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Mar-21 17:37:02)

You have shown your true colours, the fact you are swapping letters around to avoid the swear filter shows you are being calculated with your responses. As I said I'm happy to be banned if I've done something wrong but my money is on you.

The person is an utter Muppet, That has been clear for quite a while.

i was correct objectional and argumentative - wonder if the said people you mention in openreach would be impressed by you insunating they are all thickos - (youd been surprised who reads these forums)

your area might have been rejected previously for all manner of things build costs,- and suggesting OR are thickos because your estae doesnt meet the commercial case im just lost for words

i assume you decided not to offer the cost of undergrounding your estate because you think Openreach are doing it on the cheap

if it does get done the copper wont be replaced either

hmmm so estate in Yorkshire (based on who youd mentioed( not covered under any plan -sure that wouldnt be that hard to work out which one (as its it is based on what information is already in public domain and in places like codelook

Post deleted by seb

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

i was correct objectional and argumentative - wonder if the said people you mention in openreach would be impressed by you insunating they are all thickos - (youd been surprised who reads these forums)

your area might have been rejected previously for all manner of things build costs,- and suggesting OR are thickos because your estae doesnt meet the commercial case im just lost for words

i assume you decided not to offer the cost of undergrounding your estate because you think Openreach are doing it on the cheap

if it does get done the copper wont be replaced either

hmmm so estate in Yorkshire (based on who youd mentioed( not covered under any plan -sure that wouldnt be that hard to work out which one (as its it is based on what information is already in public domain and in places like codelook

if you are going to comment on my thread please have the decency to learn to spell correctly.

lost for words? you are lost for letter's as well roflmao

also I am NOT in yorkshire at all

Considering the vulgarity of your previous post, and the deletion by seb of many earlier ones of unknown content, your latest one is hilarious.

None of your sentences start with the expected capital letter, the final two have no full stops, and the apostrophe should not be there.

Edit: The plural of botty is botties. I also doubt if you have ever had an ADSL2 circuit, unless you forced it down from ADSL2+.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 30-Mar-21 02:44:08)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Considering the vulgarity of your previous post, and the deletion by seb of many earlier ones of unknown content, your latest one is hilarious.

None of your sentences start with the expected capital letter, the final two have no full stops, and the apostrophe should not be there.

Edit: The plural of botty is botties. I also doubt if you have ever had an ADSL2 circuit, unless you forced it down from ADSL2+.

Thanks for the english lesson old chap now move along and get some work done.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Considering the vulgarity of your previous post, and the deletion by seb of many earlier ones of unknown content, your latest one is hilarious.

None of your sentences start with the expected capital letter, the final two have no full stops, and the apostrophe should not be there.

Edit: The plural of botty is botties. I also doubt if you have ever had an ADSL2 circuit, unless you forced it down from ADSL2+.

Thanks for the english lesson old chap now move along and get some work done.

Maybe your memory is so bd you don't remember what it was a reply to. Your pathetic admonishment of Fastman3 for typos. Your errors are plain ignorance, as in the earlier language I referred to.

Adult behaviour is not demonstrated by bad language of the kind found on "adult sites". Quite the opposite.

Anyone heard of de-escalation?

Still waiting for the poles to go up, get a move on Openreach!

Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Mar-21 15:00:10)

In reply to a post by seb:

Anyone heard of de-escalation?

I'm sorry to say your moderation style doesn't help Seb, the OP is clearly looking to rub regular members up the wrong way with his posts and the fact that you let him get away with his threatening post (without even a ban) and only gave him a 3 day ban after you had to delete a further 5 posts a few days later says a lot about the moderation. Don't forget his only made 61 posts, 6 have been deleted and a further 1 had to be locked.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by seb:

Anyone heard of de-escalation?

I'm sorry to say your moderation style doesn't help Seb, the OP is clearly looking to rub regular members up the wrong way with his posts and the fact that you let him get away with his threatening post (without even a ban) and only gave him a 3 day ban after you had to delete a further 5 posts a few days later says a lot about the moderation. Don't forget his only made 61 posts, 6 have been deleted and a further 1 had to be locked.

That may well be, but the OP's actions don't determine how others have to respond.
Don't feed the troll comes to mind.

In reply to a post by seb:

That may well be, but the OP's actions don't determine how others have to respond.
Don't feed the troll comes to mind.

You could always remove the trolls rather than let us have to put up with them.

Its like saying bad drivers shouldn't be taken off the roads, we instead should all not use the roads when bad drivers are using them.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by seb:

That may well be, but the OP's actions don't determine how others have to respond.
Don't feed the troll comes to mind.

You could always remove the trolls rather than let us have to put up with them.

Its like saying bad drivers shouldn't be taken off the roads, we instead should all not use the roads when bad drivers are using them.

I'm saying bad drivers are not an excuse for road rage

In reply to a post by seb:

I'm saying bad drivers are not an excuse for road rage

Lets be honest about it, most people have had the urge when behind the wheel

There is a difference between thought and action.

In reply to a post by ian72:

There is a difference between thought and action.

Very true.

In reply to a post by seb:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by seb:

That may well be, but the OP's actions don't determine how others have to respond.
Don't feed the troll comes to mind.

You could always remove the trolls rather than let us have to put up with them.

Its like saying bad drivers shouldn't be taken off the roads, we instead should all not use the roads when bad drivers are using them.

I'm saying bad drivers are not an excuse for road rage

Indeed, but you would expect the police, were they to see a provocative incident, to step in and take action.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by seb:

In reply to a post by dect:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

You could always remove the trolls rather than let us have to put up with them.

Its like saying bad drivers shouldn't be taken off the roads, we instead should all not use the roads when bad drivers are using them.

I'm saying bad drivers are not an excuse for road rage

Indeed, but you would expect the police, were they to see a provocative incident, to step in and take action.

Chaps - if a poster goes way out of line, we'll deal with it, however as upstanding members of this forum we also expect you to behave appropriately and not as a clique who wind someone up. They were wrong.. they were dealt with proportionate to the fact it was not a repeat offender in the wider sense of things. If I'm going too snap on every comment then others might get banned too - I'm not inclined to so that.. I'm suggesting there are ways in which every poster can help to avoid issues.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by seb:

I'm saying bad drivers are not an excuse for road rage

Lets be honest about it, most people have had the urge when behind the wheel

urge is one thing
acting on it is another

"(youd been surprised who reads these forums"

You highlighted the wrong mistake.

Gentlemen I started a thread about poles and Openreach and fibre optic, how did it get to bad driving?.

On the subject of bad driving I just saw on the news that the police are going to fine bad drivers £100 I thought to myself wow that's sexist.

In reply to a post by chud51161:

Gentlemen I started a thread about poles and Openreach and fibre optic, how did it get to bad driving?.

On the subject of bad driving I just saw on the news that the police are going to fine bad drivers £100 I thought to myself wow that's sexist.

Quite... that's a tax on being male since stats show women are better drivers..

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"(youd been surprised who reads these forums"

You highlighted the wrong mistake.

Apologies for that there were that many I guess missing one was inevitable.

In reply to a post by seb:

Anyone heard of de-escalation?

I think that question would be better made to the cause of my post:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

REMOVED

Every sentence of that is offensive, independent of any other.

Edited by seb (Tue 30-Mar-21 22:36:51)

chud 511

your unbelievable - and that not a good sentiment

seb has pulled the pants down of the little clique of RobertoS,Fastman3, dect and fredfox and smacked your bum bums.

the sad character dect tried to tell seb how to run a forum that he does not own lol

after his name he has put knowledge is power BUT he doesn't have any knowledge because he has NO POWER in this forum as seb pointed out to him.

if i have made posts not to someone's liking i have been banned and rightly so, no complaints.

Your little sad clique has been told to stop mithering me and go away so I suggest you do as you are told you naughty little boys.

Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Mar-21 22:12:42)

In reply to a post by chud51161:

seb has pulled the pants down of the little clique of RobertoS,Fastman3, dect and fredfox and smacked your bum bums.
the sad character dect tried to tell seb how to run a forum that he does not own lol
after his name he has put knowledge is power BUT he doesn't have any knowledge because he has NO POWER in this forum as seb pointed out to him.
if i have made posts not to someone's liking i have been banned and rightly so, no complaints.
Your little sad clique has been told to stop mithering me and go away so I suggest you do as you are told you naughty little boys.

No. I simply suggested they could deal with it more appropriately than wind you up.
However this was not a license for you to start talking to fellow posters like that.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by seb:

Anyone heard of de-escalation?

I think that question would be better made to the cause of my post:

In reply to a post by chud51161:

REMOVED

Every sentence of that is offensive, independent of any other.

I don't disagree that however two wrongs don't make a right. Report problems by all means

seb

Closing this thread as I don't see it getting anywhere useful.