Plusnet (and others) Annual charges to be 3.9% + CPI

Starting this year and for every following year Plusnet state:
"On or after 1st June 2021 we’ll take the CPI percentage rate published by the Office for National Statistics in April of that year and add an extra 3.9% to the rate.
On or after 1st March every year from March 2022, we’ll take the CPI percentage rate published by the Office for National Statistics in January of that year and add an extra 3.9% to the rate."

Isn't this classic compound interest that will tend rapidly to infinity?

Even if the CPI is zero, you pay 3.9% this year.
Then 3.9% Plus 3.9% of the previous years 3.9% i.e 4.1%
4.22% the following year...
and that's without +CPI part.

Perhaps that's where the 'plus' in Plusnet comes from?

Edited by deleted (Wed 07-Apr-21 16:14:09)

In reply to a post by Carbis:

Starting this year and for every following year Plusnet state:
"On or after 1st June 2021 we’ll take the CPI percentage rate published by the Office for National Statistics in April of that year and add an extra 3.9% to the rate.
On or after 1st March every year from March 2022, we’ll take the CPI percentage rate published by the Office for National Statistics in January of that year and add an extra 3.9% to the rate."

Isn't this classic compound interest that will tend rapidly to infinity?

Even if the CPI is zero, you pay 3.9% this year.
Then 3.9% Plus 3.9% of the previous years 3.9% i.e 4.1%
4.22% the following year...
and that's without +CPI part.

Perhaps that's where the 'plus' in Plusnet comes from?

Other providers are also doing the same thing with there new contracts.

No, it isn't going to go to infinity any time soon but it is compound interest.

At 3.9% per annum a £20 bill this year in 20 years would be £41.37. In 100 years it would be £883.02.

Inflation has often times in the past been higher than 3.9% but we don't all have infinite costs for food/services. It is a higher than inflation rise (by definition) but the chances are that every time your contract comes up for renewal that you will be able to negotiate a deal with them.

There is really no reward for loyalty.

[I have to remind myself of that when I get my renewal premium for my (insert car/bike/home/business) insurance each year!]

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 07-Apr-21 17:37:48)

True. Always use the "I'm thinking of leaving" phone option, you get answered quickly and politely and renewed at a discount...

Agreed, although occasionally an agent might have used his allocation of discounts for the month in which case leaving it for a day and trying again has always worked for me.

Take read of this guide , yes about Virgin Media but same issue might apply here. So thought might like to know. Now I dont know if you can use this get out jail card because I don't have copy of Plusnet TC's.

https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/guides/virgin-medi...

A very useful tip. Thanks

I haven't looked in depth through Plusnet's T & Cs pages, but when I used to a lot they always covered all the historical ones as well if you followed the correct links.

Messy, but comprehensive.

It makes me relieved that my ISP (Zen) commits to no price rises at all while I remain a customer.

I do wonder how Plusnet and others can justify such enormous and regular increases (other than exploiting presumed customer lethargy), especially as the cost of providing telecom services generally declines over time.

I remember the days when making a telephone call to the other end of the country was something to be considered very carefully indeed....

And in those days, if you knew the local dialling codes exchange to exchange you could make a long distance call for the cost of a local call

Well certainly look at other options at the end of my contract, I will see how far Zzoomm have got as well, not that I am bothered about the higher speed.

In reply to a post by ashdown:

It makes me relieved that my ISP (Zen) commits to no price rises at all while I remain a customer.

I do wonder how Plusnet and others can justify such enormous and regular increases (other than exploiting presumed customer lethargy), especially as the cost of providing telecom services generally declines over time.

I remember the days when making a telephone call to the other end of the country was something to be considered very carefully indeed....

BT Group finally trying to make money off it's purchase!

Mine's fixed until Dec 2021, they do offer fixed price.

Inflationary price rises is a big revenue driver in the industry. Commercial teams eye call traffic, rentals etc. to try and drive extra revenue. They even have metrics for churn % in relation to price rises so a nice revenue increase can be met without high churn. That's the Teco industry

Mine WAS fixed throughout my contract - then I got an e-mail saying CPI+3.7% above inflation from 1st April, penalty free contract exit at my discretion within 30 days.

My ISP quotes covid-19 and home working as the need to upgrade the network and this costs !

They'll be quoting Copper Wire Retirement costs and the need to implement Boris' Gigabit Broadband next, when anyone in the trade knows reducing parallel networks of Voice and Internet (I.P). to One technology reduces costs overall - that's why firms across the land have been implementing VOIP in their offices for the last couple of decades !

I guess ALL the ISPs have or will soon join the bandwagon of CPI+3.x% annual increases.

Apart from a civil suite based on breach of contract (the OFCom rules about penalty free exit are placed on the ISP, not the user as far as I am concerned) I doubt I will pursue.

It doesn't seem worth it based on expectation of winning the civil suite and gaining financial, damages ... of about £0.92 up to my end of contract!

its a sign of the times. No loyalty and barrow-boy marketing TV Adverts where common terminology means nothing and OFCom have forgotten their original mandate to protect the consumer.!

Anyone for a Group Civil Action (Group Litigation) ???

Just curious - did anyone find a competitive deal elsewhere that doesn't have this annual inflation-busting increment? Who did you go with, and have you been happy with it? I'm just after phone and broadband, not bothered about telly (but don't mind if it's included at no extra cost).

Zen. AIUI, fixed price as long as you stay with them.

Have you actually tried them, Bob? "Now" is the other one that regularly pops up on price comparisons, but has only a mediocre rating for customer service. That said, Plusnet had a less than stellar performance on that the last time I had recourse to it. They imposed browsing restrictions instantly after a single failed billing (card had expired) and the same restrictions actually blocked their own payment page, meaning I couldn't settle the debt to get out of "jail". It was only two minutes to fix once I eventually got to speak to someone who knew what they were doing, but took a few days to get that far!

No, I haven't. They have always been high up the ratings, but never appealed to me. I just answered your question about the crazily high price rises that some other providers are now putting into their T & Cs.

I use Zen and 'look after' another three Zen connections. They are good and do not increase the price every year. Nor do they play silly games luring you in at a lower rate then bumping that up after a year or so.

CS always been good for me. They never treat you like a know nothing idiot or go through a script.

Edited by Woolwich (Thu 27-May-21 11:30:04)

It makes me relieved that my ISP (Zen) commits to no price rises at all while I remain a customer. I do wonder how Plusnet and others can justify such enormous and regular increases

Maybe it's something to do with the fact that Zen quoted me double the rate I'm paying Plusnet for the same BB service. This annual increase wheeze is certainly the way for ISPs to go. My wife signed a two-year mobile deal with Three last month, the increase was imposed on the agreed deal eight days later at the end of the month.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Maybe it's something to do with the fact that Zen quoted me double the rate I'm paying Plusnet for the same BB service.

Really? Show us the figures. Zen are always a few quid more but I can't see double.

Sorry, can't remember exact figures as it must have been a few years back at renewal time. I was shocked by the difference although of course I was comparing Zen's published rates v. the very good discounted deal I still enjoy from Plusnet.

In reply to a post by TLM:

"Now" is the other one that regularly pops up on price comparisons, but has only a mediocre rating for customer service

NowTV is part of Sky.

It's main purpose as far as I know is to provide short-term access to Sky channels for non-Sky broadband customers such as myself. I use it for live Formula 1, the "Pass" for that including all Sky Sports channels. Presumably also available for Sky broadband customers.

I had forgotten that it can be used as a broadband ISP. I haven't looked at its reviews, but (pure guess) wonder if it has comparatively little support for that service.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Really? Show us the figures. Zen are always a few quid more but I can't see double.

Very true, although I managed to get a Black Friday deal which wasn't that far off (at the time) that Plusnet was offering to their new customers. I jumped over to Zen and TBH, I had no complaints whatsoever with my time with Zen. Curiously the line synced faster with Zen than it ever did with PN. As someone mentioned, they don't increase the price while you're with them. But then FTTP came along and it was time to leave the OR network totally.

The price for new customers is extremely competitive. They're offering superfast broadband and free "anytime" calls for £24 p.m. on a 12 month contract, with a £5 initial setup fee.

Post deleted by RobertoS

Yes, who is offering this £24 deal please?

Now Broadband

Hmmm. Does say prices may change during the term of the contract. Whereas Plusnet, BT et al say it definitely will - and by more than inflationl

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Maybe it's something to do with the fact that Zen quoted me double the rate I'm paying Plusnet for the same BB service.

Really? Show us the figures. Zen are always a few quid more but I can't see double.

OK then:
A FTTP service from Zen selecting 300/50 Mbps, 24-month contract at £78 per month. One off installation charge of £48. A data only service. Source email from Zen.

From TalkTalk Fibre 500 - £44.95 per month, 18-month contract. Unknow installation charge. Faster connection at almost half the price. OK yearly price rise but it will take quite a while to get to Zen's price. A data only service. Source TalkTalk web site.

The comparison is striking and certainly more that a few quid difference!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

NowTV is part of Sky.

Renamed themselves Now and dropped the TV recently, but still using the nowtv.com domain. Fully owned by Sky plc (a division of the US mega corp Comcast), and the broadband service appears to be almost identical as you would expect.

Yep. I discovered the name change a bit back, as I suddenly couldn't find it in my Android TV. Even before Google + Sony revamped the Home screen! Which took me a while to find things. Including iPlayer! I don't know what other manufacturers do, but Sony have put iPlayer, ITV Hub, NOW and a few others as a sub-menu inside Sony Select.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yep. I discovered the name change a bit back, as I suddenly couldn't find it in my Android TV. Even before Google + Sony revamped the Home screen! Which took me a while to find things. Including iPlayer! I don't know what other manufacturers do, but Sony have put iPlayer, ITV Hub, NOW and a few others as a sub-menu inside Sony Select.

That sounds a bit annoying. Amazon redid the FireTV box screens a couple of months ago, quite radically, which was a bit irritating.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

The comparison is striking and certainly more that a few quid difference!

Your pricing is totally out of date. How old is that email? Zen offer 300/47 FTTP for £49 with a £30 install. That's today's price. A 500/70 is £56.

If you want a cheaper service, be my guest, jump on TalkTalk. I'm sure they have plenty of happy punters.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

The comparison is striking and certainly more that a few quid difference!

Your pricing is totally out of date. How old is that email? Zen offer 300/47 FTTP for £49 with a £30 install. That's today's price. A 500/70 is £56.

If you want a cheaper service, be my guest, jump on TalkTalk. I'm sure they have plenty of happy punters.

Well have a look at this image: http://mphem.net/zenfttp.jpg
The prices shown are ex VAT. I took them at face value for a communication that was just a few days old.

May I please have your source for the pricing which you claim to be current.

I randomly selected TalkTalk to demonstrate that Zen's pricing was very much more than what an equivalent service could be obtained elsewhere. In my book the difference in pricing was not the odd pound or two as had been suggested.

The ones you have are business, does it have to be business rather than consumer?

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well have a look at this image: http://mphem.net/zenfttp.jpg
The prices shown are ex VAT. I took them at face value for a communication that was just a few days old.

May I please have your source for the pricing which you claim to be current.

I randomly selected TalkTalk to demonstrate that Zen's pricing was very much more than what an equivalent service could be obtained elsewhere. In my book the difference in pricing was not the odd pound or two as had been suggested.

So you're comparing a business service with all that comes with and a consumer service? Talk about apples and pairs. Lets have a look at the TalkTalk business prices.

The Zen prices I quote are from their website, stick your postcode in. If you live in the right area you might get the offer of 900/900 FTTP for £40. Which is a lot less than a lot of other slower services.

I never said the "odd pound or two", I said a couple of quid. Which I'll happily define if you think I was being literal.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Well have a look at this image: http://mphem.net/zenfttp.jpg
The prices shown are ex VAT. I took them at face value for a communication that was just a few days old.

May I please have your source for the pricing which you claim to be current.

I randomly selected TalkTalk to demonstrate that Zen's pricing was very much more than what an equivalent service could be obtained elsewhere. In my book the difference in pricing was not the odd pound or two as had been suggested.

So you're comparing a business service with all that comes with and a consumer service? Talk about apples and pairs. Lets have a look at the TalkTalk business prices.

The Zen prices I quote are from their website, stick your postcode in. If you live in the right area you might get the offer of 900/900 FTTP for £40. Which is a lot less than a lot of other slower services.

I never said the "odd pound or two", I said a couple of quid. Which I'll happily define if you think I was being literal.

Let me explain my position. I am part of a CFP for FTTP which might go live in the next couple of months or so. I wanted to see what my options were by comparing prices from a small number of selected ISPs. If FTTP information was on the web sites, it was well hidden and more often or not, you had to put in your address and or phone number to find out would could be supplied and the cost of each option.

Guess what? Because I currently cannot get FTTP, it wasn't mentioned, leaving me with no option other than to fire off an email to each ISP to obtain pricing. I had no idea the response I got back from Zen was their business tariff which actually omitted to mention they were ex VAT.

All you do is shoot the messenger, rather than pointing me to a URL where consumer FTTP prices can be seen. You make no mention of the added benefits of business v consumer offerings, only falling back on the semantics of the odd pound or two against a couple of quid. If there is a difference then do let me know.

In attempting to carry out research, I find some response don't fully set out their stall nor impart knowledge that is obviously known.

Yes, its a pain, you do need a FTTP postcode to get FTTP prices. What you need to do is 'borrow' a valid address nearby and use that. It should be nearby if possible as - for example - some areas may have options such as CityFibre which will not apply to you as you are getting an Openreach service.

As far as I know Zen's business service offers a better service guarantee. If you have a residential address I doubt its something you'd want. Other ISPs' business services will likewise have something different - could be fixed IP address - to differentiate from consumer. There are people here with business services better placed to comment than me.

This site has a list of packages here which may be of use.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

This site has a list of packages here which may be of use.

Unfortunately but unsurprisingly the tariff list on TBB is horribly out of date, probably by at least 12 months. For example it only mentions one Cerberus tier but neglects all the rest (they will be changing shortly anyhow, so could well be even further out of date). Again the Talk Talk Business tariff are out of a date and don’t show the current promotion which alters pricing substantially.

It would be a full time job to keep this list accurate. My thought it is really just a starter for ten - but with big caveats: best bet really is to visit the websites of individual providers or talk to them. Prices and tariffs (let alone deals and offers) are constantly on the move.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Yes, its a pain, you do need a FTTP postcode to get FTTP prices. What you need to do is 'borrow' a valid address nearby and use that. It should be nearby if possible as - for example - some areas may have options such as CityFibre which will not apply to you as you are getting an Openreach service.

As far as I know Zen's business service offers a better service guarantee. If you have a residential address I doubt its something you'd want. Other ISPs' business services will likewise have something different - could be fixed IP address - to differentiate from consumer. There are people here with business services better placed to comment than me.

This site has a list of packages here which may be of use.

With our CFP of 74 properties we were very fortunate to pass the financial target set because of the number of business from home within our footprint. We are located at the extremity of the area that Farnham exchange covers and at the same time a considerable distance from the cabinet serving our estate. There have been a number of FTTPoD subscribers but no commercial rollout of FTTP anywhere close to us. Only a small number of households did not pledge to have an FTTP service when it becomes available?

Those that will take up the service have a voucher with a value of either £1500 or £3500 to be passed over to our chosen ISP. Whether this has any effect on the connection charge required by the ISP is unknown. I can't really get my head around the need for a contract period. It is said that it is to cover the costs that the ISP has to pay to Openreach for connecting me as a subscriber plus the recovery of the cost of the "free" router. Fair enough, but why doesn't the subscription go down at the end of the contract period? Or why can't we pay a one off fee to the ISP to cover the fees they have to pay for the connection?

Thanks for what appears to be a useful link.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Those that will take up the service have a voucher with a value of either £1500 or £3500 to be passed over to our chosen ISP. Whether this has any effect on the connection charge required by the ISP is unknown. I can't really get my head around the need for a contract period. It is said that it is to cover the costs that the ISP has to pay to Openreach for connecting me as a subscriber plus the recovery of the cost of the "free" router. Fair enough, but why doesn't the subscription go down at the end of the contract period? Or why can't we pay a one off fee to the ISP to cover the fees they have to pay for the connection?

Step one is getting access to FTTP via your CFP - that is the capital contribution and voucher contributions goes directly to OR. Then step 2 is is finding a suitable comms provider that can provide service in your area over that FTTP infrastructure.

For a CP to provide service to you they either need to establish their own network backhaul and procure cablelinks at your serving exchange, or buy that from someone like BTW or Openreach. This is why those CP’s willing to provide service are looking for a min. term contract period to cover that investment.