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Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 15-Apr-21 21:41:54
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:
I fail to understand what FTTP has to do with it, as Robertos has said the customer will still have a copper line so an ADSL broadband service can provide a VOIP telephone as very little bandwidth is required.
Can you provide a link to any documents that show that this will be how telephone services will be provided?

Michael Chare
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Apr-21 21:58:18
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Can you provide a link to any documents that show that this will be how telephone services will be provided?

https://business.bt.com/insights/digital-transformat...

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Apr-21 21:59:14
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Another issue is the need for power. If you want broadband you can accept that you will have to provide a power point near your master socket but would you be happy being told you must do this if all you want to do is to continue making phone calls.
I read somewhere that the number of phone calls made on the PSTN had dropped dramatically. I suspect people whom are worried about power cuts will be able to use mobile services.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM


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Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Thu 15-Apr-21 22:15:17
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
Closing the bt PSTN (2025) is not copper retirement.
Copper will still be used for ADSL (BT and LLU), FTTC and g.fast , as well as legacy private circuits , for many years yet.
There is no scheduled program announced to recover copper services.

What about the 75% "rule"...?

When 75% of the homes and businesses connected to a particular exchange can get Full Fibre you won’t be able to buy our old copper products if Full Fibre is available at your premise, this includes Gfast, Superfast Fibre and Standard Broadband.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-t...
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Thu 15-Apr-21 22:21:01
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Another issue is the need for power. If you want broadband you can accept that you will have to provide a power point near your master socket but would you be happy being told you must do this if all you want to do is to continue making phone calls.
I read somewhere that the number of phone calls made on the PSTN had dropped dramatically. I suspect people whom are worried about power cuts will be able to use mobile services.

Been declining year on year for ages....See old Ofcom report from 2017:

"Our research shows that the volume of mobile calls in the UK has increased steadily in recent years, from 132.1 billion minutes in 2012 to 151.4 billion in 20175, while landline call volumes nearly halved in the same period, falling from 103.1 billion minutes to 53.6 billion."

It's probably declined even further in the intervening four years since that report was published, and will continue as the variety of alternatives abound.

Edit:
https://postimg.cc/Xp9vs6CR

This shows the trend, mobile minutes increasing while fixed landline steadily declining, every year since 2007....section 3.2 of 2020 Market Report

"Fixed call volumes have declined by 76% from 164bn minutes in 2007 to 39bn in 2019, while mobile call volumes have increased 52% from 106bn minutes in 2017 to 161bn minutes in 2019"

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 15-Apr-21 22:43:20)

Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Apr-21 22:27:08
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Another issue is the need for power. If you want broadband you can accept that you will have to provide a power point near your master socket but would you be happy being told you must do this if all you want to do is to continue making phone calls.

Many people have mobile phones, and seem happy to accept having to charge them up.

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 15-Apr-21 22:45:35
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Can you provide a link to any documents that show that this will be how telephone services will be provided?

https://business.bt.com/insights/digital-transformat...
Thank you for the link. It says that IP will be used but it does not mention what hardware will be used. Where Openreach have FTTP they will want to use that for telephone only customers. It would be nice to find something where they state what they will do in areas where they don't have an FTTP service but there are altnets.

Michael Chare
Standard User Whitehall11
(regular) Thu 15-Apr-21 22:50:03
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Like any infrastructure phasing out's, it will take a considerable amount of time to undo the jigsaw and mazes of frankly millions and millions of copper cabling, and as it's been cited already, when the time does come, the recovery costs in a lot of areas will out weigh the actual retrieval.

When PSTN is switched off, it will of been after a large scale switching of landline customers to VOIP Routers such as digital voice that both Sky and BT already offer, and as individuals come to the end of their 12/24 month contracts, they'll most likely be shipped a new router or switching device that will send their landline down the VOIP path via ADSL / FTTC / GFAST / FTTP.

In the case of vulnerable customers, i'm sure BT can provide a HALO Service to these customers free of charge, or other powercut type service (Perhaps a 4G Voice Sim Card?).

EDIT: I assume in the case where FTTC or FTTP is not avaliable, a standard ASDL+ service which will be used, that works on even the most distant copper EO line!

Edited by Whitehall11 (Thu 15-Apr-21 22:51:36)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 15-Apr-21 23:03:57
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Another issue is the need for power. If you want broadband you can accept that you will have to provide a power point near your master socket but would you be happy being told you must do this if all you want to do is to continue making phone calls.

Many people have mobile phones, and seem happy to accept having to charge them up.
Well yes, but do Openreach really want to encourage the loss of telephone only customers and there is also the problem that mobile phones need a mobile signal and that is often not as good as one would like.

Michael Chare
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Thu 15-Apr-21 23:11:20
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Re: Copper Retirement. Will Openreach remove unused lines?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Well yes, but do Openreach really want to encourage the loss of telephone only customers and there is also the problem that mobile phones need a mobile signal and that is often not as good as one would like.

On the first point, Openreach don't want to have anything to do with the physical provision of voice services going forward. Clear evidence of their strategy was the removal of the voice port on their ONTs in 2019.

On the seconds point, perhaps counterintuitively but 'mobile signal' can often be interchanged with WiFi signal (with WiFi Calling and SMSoverWiFi) and the better for it - at least in the home and places like deep-line tube stations.
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