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Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Apr-21 17:36:44
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: farrinaf] [link to this post]
 
The NTE5C voice extension terminals will be filtered when a Mk4 faceplate is fitted and isolated when the Mk4 faceplate is removed - it's an ingenious yet somewhat counter intuitive design smile

Be sure to use cw1308 twisted pair or 100% copper cat5e cable for your proposed (?) data extension, i.e. hardwired on the faceplate's A&B terminals to a rj11 plug. Generally speaking, a data extension terminated to a dedicated rj11 socket would be preferable.

Good luck.

Edited by 4M2 (Sun 25-Apr-21 17:37:49)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 25-Apr-21 19:08:32
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: farrinaf] [link to this post]
 
As per 4M2's reply to your latest post, adding that 4-core cable is pointless as by definition only two cores are used from the A/B connector. smile

Oh - and. AIUI you didn't need the replacement faceplate. The unfiltered A/B connectors are surely in the wall box?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 25-Apr-21 19:12:35)

Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Sun 25-Apr-21 21:55:33
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I believe the OP wants a filtered connection for voice and an unfiltered connection for a modem/ router so 4 cores i.e. 2 pairs are required.

As 4M2 says the 5 3 2 extension output is filtered so is used for the voice extension.

I guess the reason for using the A/B connector on the back of the faceplate for the broadband extension is to disconnect the extension for testing when the faceplate is removed.


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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 26-Apr-21 00:16:24
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
See this post. As I read it he is putting the phone at the master socket.

As an additional point, the socket he installs at the modem end would be better as a filtered extension socket such as the preferred size of these. That solves both the problem of a phone at the modem end later if desired, and supplying the correct DSL socket for a standard modem cable.

Still only a twin-core cable.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021.
Standard User jabuzzard
(experienced) Mon 26-Apr-21 00:21:31
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: farrinaf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by farrinaf:
The reason I want to hardwire from the AB connectors on the back of the Mk4 socket (rather than use the RJ11 data out on the front) is the modem is about 40 feet away and I want to use “proper” twisted four core cable and not the thin flat stuff normally associated with RJ11 plugs.


Personally I would site the Vigor 130 as close as possible to the NTE5 run some Cat5e or better to your router and use PoE with a splitter to power the Vigor. Unless you happen to live close to the cabinet and are going to get a solid 80/20 you want as little extra wire as possible between the modem and the cabinet till the conversion to ethernet.

You would also be future proofed for the day they NTE5 gets ripped out and replaced with an ONT smile
Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Mon 26-Apr-21 08:06:39
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I am not totally sure of the requirements but I think that the voice and modem will be at an extension, however the main confusion is that the OP seems to be mixed up about the functions of the camlock connections on the master and faceplate, as in which are filtered or unfiltered.

In the opening post "On the reverse of the MK4 faceplate there is an A/B cam socket and I understand that this can be used to take a hardwired (filtered) broadband signal directly to a modem/router"

In a reply to you at 15:45 "I cannot use the 5/3/2 output cam on the actual 5C master socket as this is before any filtering and would require me to introduce additional filters on the voice circuit ."

Various posters have corrected these misunderstandings and I agree that a filtered extension socket would be an acceptable solution, however if the OP does not want any filter at the extension then a 2 pair lead would be required.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Mon 26-Apr-21 08:11:57)

Standard User farrinaf
(learned) Mon 26-Apr-21 10:11:31
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
## Note – I have summarised my understanding at the foot of this post in case anyone subsequently coming across this tread just wants the solution and not the journey! ##

Many thanks for the further helpful and constructive responses, particularly from 4M2 - I would never have "clocked" that the C5 5/3/2 extension terminals were retrospectively filtered by the fitment of a front MK4 data socket - as you say very "counter intuitive"!

I am using solid copper wires (four core twisted) so hopefully this will have minimal effect on line quality. Am intending to use a RJ11 socket to terminate the data extension at the modem end (I believe I need to wire pins 3&4 of 6 for modem data connection).

The spare copper twisted pair are there with an eye to the future in case of need (if ultimately forced down the VOIP route) to take a phone feed back from router to current master socket located phone.

Just to provide some further clarification/background.

The setup is at my octogenarian mothers home – change is never welcomed, so the less the better!

Previously (owing to her having a fixed 3 year BT Home Phone Saver type contract with severe early termination penalties) once she belatedly discovered an internet need I created a rather expensive solution based upon a Three 4G Unlimited data SIM. Now that her fixed BT contract has expired its time to move on (both from a cost and latency point of view)

She is in a FTTP enabled area, but ultimately I decided to go down the FTTC route for the following reasons;

Easier to route cabling from front of house to rear (under carpet). No power near existing entrance point so ONT location would be messy, would also require long thicker Ethernet cable run to router.

Potential loss of 1471 service if forced to a VOIP telephony based solution (she is a creature of habit) Also if VOIP the need for a UPS to cover power loss.

Cost - FTTC is currently cheaper than FTTP (we are going with Zen, so supposedly fixed rate) I loathe the BT/Plusnet 3.9% + CPR type “in contract” price rises. When you factor this in, I don’t think Zen are bad value – especially given their better support ratings and supplied quality Fritzbox 7530 router. (I have also gone Zen for this reason - albeit FTTP)

Happily her FTTC cabinet is very close, probably under 120m away, so speeds should be more than acceptable (to provide an idea the BT Openreach checker suggests (VDSL Range B Impacted) i.e. worst case a downstream hand back threshold of 53.5Mbps

RobertoS - there is a phone located at the master socket, but there is also an extension phone hence why (for neatness) I also wanted to use the 5/3/2 cam connector terminals on the front of the 5C (which happily I now can following 4M2's clarification as to the presence of filtering – I realise I could have fitted a stand-alone filter at the other end but it would become messy).

I note your point as regards the A/B connections on the master - at the risk of teaching you how to "suck the proverbial egg", the BT 5C Master socket has a cam type A/B terminal connectors on its reverse for the use of the BT engineer wiring in the exchange line, but there are also A/B cam connector terminals on the reverse of the MK4 faceplate. The former A/B I did not want to touch as its on BT's side of the demarcation line.

Thanks to all for this helpful input, things are falling nicely into place - hopefully full speed ahead come go live on Thursday (29th) just need to chase Zen for details of fixed IP and connection password.

## Summary Below ##

Finally for anyone coming across this thread and in the same position I was a week ago to summarise (hopefully I have this correct!)

Picture of the 5C Master Socket with Mk4 front plate here

Picture of the A/B terminal on reverse of Mk4 front plate here

I purchased my 5C and MK4 faceplate from Amazon here (Mods if this is not permitted apologies and please remove)

The standard BT 5C socket has a A/B terminal cam type connector on its reverse which is for the use of the BT Engineer to connect the incoming exchange line. This should not be touched by the consumer as its on the BT side of the connection.

On the front of the 5C socket (once any lower face plate is removed) are 5/3/2 cam type extension terminals. These are NOT live when the lower face plate (or retrofitted MK4 data/voice faceplate if fitted) is removed.

If (because you have a VDSL connection) you fit a MK4 data/voice faceplate onto the front of the 5C (you will need to remove any existing standard BT lower connector socket first) the 5/3/2 extension cam terminals on the 5C will become filtered so can be used for voice extensions without the need to any further filtering on the voice side. Do not use for data!

On the reverse of the Mk4 data/voice faceplate there are A/B cam type connector terminals which are unfiltered and can be used as an output to a modem for VDSL. Do not simultaneously wire any voice extensions to this connection as otherwise the voice extensions will require additional separate filters.

Finally obviously there are socket outputs for RJ11 (Data) and standard BT phone on the front of the MK4 data/voice faceplate which can be used as labelled.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 26-Apr-21 17:17:34
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: farrinaf] [link to this post]
 
Looks like you will achieve a very successful voice and data setup - personally, as a precaution, I would not connect the voice extension's bell wire to terminal 3 on the NTE5C if a "modern" phone is being used since the bell wire could cause stability issues.
Standard User farrinaf
(learned) Fri 30-Apr-21 09:09:50
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for your further suggestion - I did NOT connect the third wire!

Well the ZEN FTTC connection (40/10) went live yesterday and the Vigor 130 brought everything online immediately.

The only real faff was spending some hours enabling remote access to the Vigor Console from my home (long story involving two pfsense firewalls, VPN's and configuring multiple outbound NAT translations, firewall rules etc)

As can be seen from the Vigor Console stats below quite a reasonable connection (if I sound only slightly luke warm, its because pre my FTTP connection, my FTTC connected at a rock steady 80/20). Whilst we are roughly the same distance away from our respective cabinets, the housing density in my mothers road is higher (semi v detached) so presumably noise et al is slightly higher. Still very respectable figures and it is only early days (been online for approximately 12 hours)

The only question now is do we splash out an extra £5 a month to go 80/20 ?

> vdsl status

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 39993000 bps US Actual Rate : 9995000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 72926296 bps US Attainable Rate : 27907472 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 15 dB Cur SNR Margin : 15 dB
DS actual PSD : 6. 3 dB US actual PSD : 12. 8 dB
NE CRC Count : 3 FE CRC Count : 1773
NE ES Count : 2 FE ES Count : 1557
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-06-0D-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 17 dB Far SNR Margin : 18 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004946 CO ITU Version[1] : 544ed086
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < IFTN >

Edited by farrinaf (Fri 30-Apr-21 09:18:11)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Fri 30-Apr-21 09:48:19
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Re: Wiring BT Master Socket NTE5c MK2 & VDSL/ADSL MK4 facepl


[re: farrinaf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by farrinaf:
The only question now is do we splash out an extra £5 a month to go 80/20 ?


YES. Upstream at 28Mbps - fine. Downstream at 73Mbps - far enough above 40 to justify it. Also, remember that is a reasonably accurate predicted figure that is based around a 6dB margin so you will be around there to start. You may then find the margin drops to 5, 4, 3 dB at which point you will be getting a lot closer to 80.


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M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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