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I have measured the speed in out church at the master socket, with both the internal church wiring not connected and with it connected. There was a small drop with the wiring connected, but a massive drop (over 50%) when measured at the other end of the church. There is a burglar alarm and a fire alarm with red care on th eline as well as the router.
Speeds in Mbps
Crypt – Master socket No church wiring connected Download 68 Upload 15.67 – 17.1
Crypt – Master socket Church wiring connected Download 65 Upload 13.65 – 14.88
Verger’s Office Church wiring connected Download 54 Upload 6.45 – 6.93
Any ideas as to the reason for the drop from one end of the church?
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What filters do you have?
What cables run from Crypt to office?
The reasons could be: additional attenuation, which would account for some, bad wiring/incorrect cable type, additional noise being picked up.
A full description of the wiring layout and additional stats to include SNRs and attenuation in all three cases will give a better view.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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I agree with your logic, but asuming it's FTTC not FTTP the wireless speed looks to be more than adequate. Rather than messing about, especially if the wiring needs to be replaced, I suggest they just leave it alone.
The verger's office simply using whichever method is the better.
Your questioning of the wiring is of course spot on. I suspect ordinary "burglar alarm" type is in place. Not even CW1308.
The only snag I can imagination could be if they are, and will be after lockdown ends, streaming services for a remote congregation.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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The wiring after the master socket is all burglar alarm wiring. It goes about 10m into a junction box and then goes into about 4 star connected lines. These can be up to about 50 or 60 m long.
No wireless was used for the tests - all were an ethernet cable between the router and the laptop.
There is a fire alarm and an intruder alarm on two of the cables. The monitoring station tells me that these have RedCare on them.
The master socket is about 7ft from the ground in the crypt and we need an extension lead to get power, so getting readings is quite a big exercise. I may get a chance to get SNRs etc in a few days time.
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You have given the exact reasons - burglar alarm cable and then a massive star connected network which will be picking up noise from everywhere. Who installed that "mess"?
How critical is it to get an improved connection to the office? If it is, then maybe some rewiring would be beneficial.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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So what was all the stuff about church wiring connected and not connected?
Burglar alarm wiring is always a No-No for broadband. You're lucky you get as good as you do.
Re your tests using ethernet to the router, what did you do? Move the router to the different locations and just use a short ethernet cable to test the speeds?
Where is the router normally placed in this mess? Where are the burglar alarm and fire alarm connected on the end of a couple of these cables from the junction box, or burglar alarm wire into the back of the master socket?
I think we might need a sketch of the whole setup uploaded somewhere to look at.
(I've just checked to see if any posts have been made while I drafted this. I see MHC has responded with the same basic assessment, it's a mess).
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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I can't understand how he is seeing 68Mbps anywhere! Or even 65.
Edit: I've just reread the OP now we know a bit more, and see he was testing speeds actually at the master socket. We don't in fact have any elsewhere.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021.Edited by RobertoS (Wed 05-May-21 12:54:33)
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I think the easiest and by far the cheapest and quickest solution is simply to use wireless throughout the church. Including the verger's office which needs its wiring disconnected as near to the master as possible.
That still leaves the two alarms on dodgy wires but those could be expensive to sort out. Their speed should not be critical.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021.Edited by RobertoS (Wed 05-May-21 12:59:17)
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Until we see the Attenuation and SNR - difficult to tell.
It may be a line capable of 100/30, especially as a lot of Churches have cabinets close by. As they would be in the centre of a village/town, when the GPO started to put cabinets in, they too would be close to a town centre resulting in short lines. Next time you are out have look close to Churches and see if you can locate a close cabinet.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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That's why I asked about FTTC or FTTP in my first post  .
If it was G.Fast, which on reflection it might be, then they must be on an above 80Mbps line. If it is FTTP they shouldn't be using the original master socket anyway. Except maybe for the phone. Which also raises the questions of how many phones, where, how wired in, and appropriate filtering.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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Very unlikely to be FTTP if they have Red Care wired in.
Need to wait and see what comes back. Sorting out that wiring would only take someone with a little experience 1/2-1 day and it sounds as though it was originally done "on the cheap"
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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This was installed in the late 1980s before anyone thought that churches might be live streaming!
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Broadband is FTTC.
Church wiring disconnected means that the master socket cover plate has been removed and the router plugged into the test socket tat is exposed when the cover plate is removed.
Church wiring connected means thatthe cover plate was on the master socket.
Yes moved the router to two different locations: master socket and Verger's Office.
Router is normally in the Verger's Office.
Alarms are at the end of a couple of the cables from the junction box.
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There are three readings
The first two are at the master socket and the third is in the Verger's Office
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FTTC. Apologies that I did not make that clear
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How easy would it be to run a new cable from the master to the office?
You potentially "could" get away with that as a minimum.
Are you prepared to share the phone number and location with myself and RobertoS by PM? We have both been around for a long time and hopefully considered reputable.
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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Just to add to that, a question for the OP. Is the verger's phone run on the same line, or is it a completely separate line? (I'm thinking of filters).
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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There is only one phone line into the church.
So the Verger's Office is one of the lines from the junction box.
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Thanks for the various clarifications .
I'm afraid the questions continue. Where is the filter on the line?
There are so many questions because it really does look a chaotic installation. The ideal installation would be a filtered faceplate on the master socket with a direct CW1308 cable from the phone outlet of the new faceplate to the verger's office for the phone. With short connection from the DSL socket on that faceplate to the router. Possibly situated on a wall shelf below the master socket, within reach without step ladders. As long as it is secure there.
Then ethernet cables for the broadband from the router to all other locations. If there aren't sufficient ethernet sockets on the router then a 4-port ethernet switch could be fed from it. (I may need correction from others regarding the burglar and fire alarm wiring).
Is that feasible?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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Thanks for the PM. All looks OK for the line itself there unless the fibre cabinet is close to the church. A "bridge tap" is shown, which is because of the star wiring MHC commented on. That wiring is the main problem, made worse by the quality of the cabling itself.
See my immediately previous post re the ideal. (To add to that post, in my opinion a decent cable from the router to the junction box, which would feed only the two alarms as now, would be fine in such a layout).
Are we to understand from the foillowing that you are doing live streaming from the church? This was installed in the late 1980s before anyone thought that churches might be live streaming! If so, is it unreliable and that is what you are hoping to fix? Also would you intend to continuelive streaming after June 21?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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It has a 79/20 forecast - so already way down. As we have said, cabling is the big problem.
Fully filtering at the Master, with phone lines to the alarms and both phone and BB to the office might work, IF the line to the office is upgraded to Cat5e or CW1308
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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You seem to have read the downstream wrong, reversing the digits before and after the decimal point . Then there is the IP Profile to take into account.
If they are live streaming though, the upload is dreadful for the 20Mbps estimate. Bottom of the ranges.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
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The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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I know, I realised too late to edit that I had put 79 rather than 75!
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M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
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You have 12 hours to edit  . Not that it really matters now.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
The EU’s multiple failures are due to a deeper malaise .... What malaise? The EU’s formidable immunity to the smallest amount of democracy. New Statesman Feb 2021. |
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My recollection is that we plugged a filter into the socket and then plugged the router into the filter in all three locations.
Current thoughts are to run a CW1308 cable from the master socket to a central location in the East end and place a the router and a mesh box there. We would then have two other mesh boxes which we hope will give better WiFi in all areas. The mesh boxes have ethernet connectin ports which we would use for live streaming. The mesh has parental controls which hopefully will allow us to turn off the guest WiFi while we are live streaming.
We would leave all the existng cables in place.
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The master socket is about 7ft from the ground in the crypt and we need an extension lead to get power, so getting readings is quite a big exercise. I may get a chance to get SNRs etc in a few days time.
Separate modem located close to the master socket and run some Cat5e and power the modem using PoE and an splitter.
With xDSL the best speeds are always achieved by converting to ethernet as soon as possible.
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