Running fibre through the loft

I'm doing some research about getting FTTP installed in my detached house. We have an overhead copper wire, so expect fibre to run the same way. I'd like the fibre run through the loft to put the ONT inside a hallway cupboard (there's already a hole from the loft for a TV ariel), but openreach say on twitter this can't be done? Their website suggests it can be installed anywhere within 10m. Why wouldn't this be possible? We have very few plug sockets on the outside walls of the house (1960s wiring)!

It can be done - and is much the same as mine.

Fibre terminates at roof level and from where it comes through the soffit I have 0.5 m of flexi conduit, into 20mm rigid conduit running along a wall for 5metres, then a 45degree swept bend to go through a wall into asecond loft. More rigid conduit and finally into a patree box from where it exits and into te OR equipment.

In teh end it may well be down to teh technician on the day as to wht you actually get co-operation wise.

Thanks! I guess the key is advance preparation for the installer. We'd have limited alternatives because we need to get an electrician in first to fit new double sockets for the OTN and router. It is either the loft or understairs cupboard, though the latter probably won't result in a good signal throughout the house. Our existing copper wire isn't near a plug.

You may have better luck having te ONT in the loft. The electrician can install a new socket off the lighting circuit PROVIDIED it is marked low power 3A only.


Then run a Cat5e or Cat6 link from teh loft to where you want the router

If you want this you will have to do a lot of preparation - you may also find Openreach want to bring the aerial cable down to ground level to splice it so they always maintain an external splice point and can replace the aerial fibre in the future without you needing to let them into your house.

If you want them to go into the loft area then you'll need it to be boarded out with good access, lighting etc. I would probably not put an ONT in a loft just because of the temperatures that a loft can get to, and because I don't want to be climbing into a loft to look at LEDs if I need to call in a fault.

Again, down to who does teh install. My splice point is in the second loft - actually designed/built to house the various comms.

If running through conduit to close to an access point then it will on ly need boarding and lights close by - however, access should be appropriate and te technician could refuse if not suitable.

What if the hall cupboard is against an outside wall ?

Our FTTP setup routed much the same way in a partially boarded loft space. All accessible though. We were of the 2018-19 CSP-less generation / phase too. It’s a direct drop cable from ONT back to an aerial CBT.

Admittedly this was an FTTPoD connection, rather than a native FTTP connection, snd several years ago now. Maybe the engineer was told to be “kind” as we were paying royally for the connection. Although it wasn’t or shouldn’t have been a surprise; the internal pathway and ONT location was all agreed with the surveyor almost a year prior.

In reply to a post by FTTPconfused:

Thanks! I guess the key is advance preparation for the installer. We'd have limited alternatives because we need to get an electrician in first to fit new double sockets for the OTN and router. It is either the loft or understairs cupboard, though the latter probably won't result in a good signal throughout the house. Our existing copper wire isn't near a plug.

If you're going to the expense of getting a spark in to run new cables, it's worth thinking about running in some additional Cat5e/6 cabling from a central location (where your main router and ONT will be will be) for some separate WiFi access points. You will have superior WiFi coverage, than from a single possible not optimal (for WifI signal) router location. It also frees you up to put the ONT and router into a more accessible location, rather than the roof space / loft.

It is really tricky to plan when there is no clear guidance from Openreach as to what they will accept in advance! They say they'll run 10m of internal cables but may or may not bother depending who turns up. Presumably the ONT position is pretty much fixed for decades, without paying to have it moved?

Our loft is fully boarded and lit, so access shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps it would be easier to run the ONT off an extension lead wherever they accept fitting it and get the sparky in after.

Thank you. This is our alternative plan, putting the ONT and WiFi box in the understairs cupboard - we are getting an office built in the garden and will be running a Cat6 cable from that into the house. We'll be setting up access points in the office and somewhere in the house from ethernet cables. I'm trying to find the most optimal way of joining up all the wires and maintaining good Internet coverage. My brother is helping because I'm no expert in this stuff.

Offie in the garden ... A year or two back I would have said 2 x Cat6, now, I would suggest a fibre link.

The issue is risk and liability. OR say no lofts becasue there is always the potential for damage/injury and better to have a blanket ban rather that letting staff decide. Mine are both fully boarded and have decent steps - in the past I have had "sorry cannot go there" but when they see one is designed as a comms room, not an issue.


Getting the ONT installed in a sensible place using an extension is one way - then have a socket installed, just make sure it will be an easy task. As also suggested, run Cat5e/6 from there to the router and from teh router to various WAPs.

Lofts also count as confined spaces, the same as manholes.

In my opinion, the OP’s best bet is to get decent conduit and a draw cord fitted from where he thinks he’d like the ONT to go to and easily accessible exterior wall … preferably the same exterior wall that the current copper feed is attached to.

Even then they might decline, but as you found with yours, it is often acceptable to most installers.

Or be prepared to do some work for them.
I wanted virgin cable under floor to other side of room. Installer was not happy to do it, which was fair enough. So I said if you feed it through the wall & I pull it through under floor and feed it back up in the room, will you be happy. Smile on his face said it all.
Result I got cables where I wanted.

Or just run the Cat6 and power the ONT using PoE and a splitter. They really should make the ONT's 802.3af compliant.

The standard way to have a socket from a lighting circuit is to us a 2A or 5A BS546 socket. Though given the wall warts used to power things that won't be much help. Though you might be able to find a suitable one from one of the countries still using BS546 variants.

The other option is to put a fused spur in before the socket.

Another option would be to get a 12V wall mounted PSU and wire that it to hard wired into a fused spur from the lighting circuit.

Just putting a 3A max label on the socket is insufficient and you would fail a PIR.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

Just putting a 3A max label on the socket is insufficient and you would fail a PIR.

I would dispute that. (Guess you mean EICR). There is no reason for it to fail as there us already a 6A fuse. It may raise a comment, that is is current restricted but not a fail. An FCU/spur would not add anything as it could be fused at 3, 5, 7, 10, 13 A whereas te MCB will be 3 or 6 A

In reply to a post by MHC:

You may have better luck having te ONT in the loft. The electrician can install a new socket off the lighting circuit PROVIDIED it is marked low power 3A only.


Then run a Cat5e or Cat6 link from teh loft to where you want the router

Bad practice running a socket off a light circuit,better to run a fused spur off the ring final for the socket,here I've ran a FCU spur in trunking hidden in a cupboard up to socket in loft

Edited by Nightglow (Sat 10-Jul-21 10:29:59)

Nothing wriong with doing it and it is done on a regular basis, provided it is done correctly. Where in teh regulations is it not permitted?


Why do you need to run a fused spour for a socket? Expalin that with reference to the appropriate regulations.

Putting a 13A socket on a lighting circuit is not expicilty prohibited.

But the danger is if someone else decided to connect something other than the intended product to it.

So maybe a good answer would be to connect it up using the (old) 5amp sockets (round pin plugs). That way at least most people would just bypass connecting anything else too it.

I have noticed a lot of holiday cottages have started fitting these in to stop people plugging in their own electrical equipment & overloading the circuits..

In reply to a post by JohnR:

Putting a 13A socket on a lighting circuit is not expicilty prohibited.

Precisely

In reply to a post by JohnR:

But the danger is if someone else decided to connect something other than the intended product to it.

Why? If the device is low to medium powered then it will run fine. If high power such as a hair dryer, then it will take out the breaker - 6 or 3 A. No issue apart from the nuisance factor.

I know its done as I've come across it before in one of my previous properties where they had connected a TV aerial amplifier up but personally I wouldn't knowingly put anything on a lighting circuit other than lights as it muddies the water but thats just my opinion.

Edit: Before anyone says, I wasn't trying to compare a hair dryer with a aerial amplifer I appreciate the current drawn is totally different

Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Jul-21 11:52:02)

In reply to a post by MHC:

Nothing wriong with doing it and it is done on a regular basis, provided it is done correctly. Where in teh regulations is it not permitted?


Why do you need to run a fused spour for a socket? Expalin that with reference to the appropriate regulations.

Nothing in the regs yet, I'm old scchool, was taught it's bad practice, a bodge, but sadly it's in favour today.🤬

Could have used a DP switch instead,but used a switched fused spur as I had box of them available.

Edited by Nightglow (Sun 11-Jul-21 12:01:11)

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why? If the device is low to medium powered then it will run fine. If high power such as a hair dryer, then it will take out the breaker - 6 or 3 A. No issue apart from the nuisance factor.

Prevention is better than cure.

If they have old style fuses in the board & simply change the wire for higher rated..

Humpty is what Numpty does.

In reply to a post by JohnR:

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why? If the device is low to medium powered then it will run fine. If high power such as a hair dryer, then it will take out the breaker - 6 or 3 A. No issue apart from the nuisance factor.

Prevention is better than cure.

If they have old style fuses in the board & simply change the wire for higher rated..

Humpty is what Numpty does.

My house was built in the late 1960s. It has an old-style fusebox with plug-in fuse wire carriers that you have to rewire yourselves if one blows.

I believe a nail pressed into the carrier works quite well in stopping any more fuse blows ............ 🥵🤬🥵🤬👿👹💀💀

As proven by this note from the Darwin Awards web-site dating back to 1998: https://darwinawards.com/legends/legends1998-04.html

I remember seeing silver paper - what you used to get in cigarette packets - in one of those fuse holders.

In reply to a post by clyde123:

I remember seeing silver paper - what you used to get in cigarette packets - in one of those fuse holders.

That would have been a lighting circuit!

[groan] 😂😂😂

I see your reason for that - and realised it as I had posted. I was actually meaning Lighting, as in the circuit rather than the other meaning!

In the end, there is no way to beat "stupidity" though.

My first thought was "lighting circuit", then I decided you probably meant the one I went with .

Not sure if it's true, but an electrician who worked on ships told me that if there was a non-obvious fault, they would replace the fuse with a large bolt. The fault was where the smoke came from.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

As proven by this note from the Darwin Awards web-site dating back to 1998: https://darwinawards.com/legends/legends1998-04.html

Except that the small print at the end of the piece notes that the story is now accepted as a hoax . . .

Most FTTP installs are going out to contractors paid by the job round here now. They won’t want to be messing about. You’ll have to make it a quick job for them by doing all the prep work.