Elderly and Vulnerable people

There has been a lot of discussion about discontinuing copper based services and moving to VoIP and teh potential problems that it may cause for the elderly of those cosidered vulnerable and in need of an alarm or phone in all cases.

I live 200 miles from my father-in-law and am a nominated contact on and effectively control his phone/broadband account.

On Saturday, late afternoon, we received a call from a neighbour to tell us the phone and broadband were down - that immediatly causes problems on his personal alarm. It was raised with Plusnet who have the account listed as a "Welfare Account".

Just after 9:00 on Sunday, I received a message that Openreach had assigned the job and would be there soon - they also provided the Technician's number and I spoke with him with access details. He called back to "van has broken down" and job would be reassigned. Shortly after another Technician called me directly and he was en-route.

Around 11:30, another call to tell me fault fixed and all services tested - yes it was all fine.


So, if you have elderly or vulnerable relatives, choose their service provider wisely. Plusnet and BT Consumer will provide the additional service to get a repair completed on the Next Day, not next working day as Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays are included - additionbal cost to the customer NIL.

Which other providers have a similar level of service?

Wonderful hearing a positive story.

There is a welfare team within openreach that deals with these escalations. I would imagine bt consumer have their own team due to the volume of vulnerable end users they have. Few other providers would have the scale to justify such a team and escalate to Openreach as part of their BAU procedures.

I agree with this, but also the providers of these care alarms need to get off their backsides and do something - they have had four years notice by this point. Unfortunately like a lot of other providers in the medical space they are happy to just sit back and collect subscription fees while waiting for the telecoms sector to bail them out of trouble.

Intruder alarms have been dual path cellular and IP for *years* now, lift companies are finally pulling their fingers out and addressing the issue for emergency phones, but I've not seen any evidence that these personal alarm providers are doing anything proactive. You can still go to companies where the only alarm they provide is single-path PSTN, and the website makes no mention at all of the upcoming PSTN retirement.

So, if you have elderly or vulnerable relatives, choose their service provider wisely. Plusnet and BT Consumer will provide the additional service to get a repair completed on the Next Day, not next working day as Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays are included - additionbal cost to the customer NIL.

Which other providers have a similar level of service?

All! It legal requment for all infrastructure providers Electric/Gas/Water/Telecoms.
https://cpdonline.co.uk/knowledge-base/safeguarding/...

If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues. There is no harm to informing each of your utility providers of the issue at that address, in fact it advisable to do so because it just a should.

All in all it should like it ended up fine and good. Hopefuly (as it sounds) your relative and your self are happy about the out come.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I agree with this, but also the providers of these care alarms need to get off their backsides and do something - they have had four years notice by this point. Unfortunately like a lot of other providers in the medical space they are happy to just sit back and collect subscription fees while waiting for the telecoms sector to bail them out of trouble.

Intruder alarms have been dual path cellular and IP for *years* now, lift companies are finally pulling their fingers out and addressing the issue for emergency phones, but I've not seen any evidence that these personal alarm providers are doing anything proactive. You can still go to companies where the only alarm they provide is single-path PSTN, and the website makes no mention at all of the upcoming PSTN retirement.

Expect that they don’t have any in-house development / it’s done as a contract one-off basis. Therefore they have little incentive to innovate as you say. One major product release per decade would be good going. Then sweat the asset, plough all your budget into sub sales and marketing…until the customers head for the exit or scream for updates.

In reply to a post by jpm:

I agree with this, but also the providers of these care alarms need to get off their backsides and do something - they have had four years notice by this point. Unfortunately like a lot of other providers in the medical space they are happy to just sit back and collect subscription fees while waiting for the telecoms sector to bail them out of trouble.

Yep mainly agree with that sentiment, but that only because things I don't know about. It been no secret that was happing with telecoms system. I have no knowalge of persional alarms.
Is hardware being sold or leased?

If hardware being sold and paying usage support fee then it not unresinable being chaged for new hardware. Do think that right thing to do morally no, but legaly yes.

If hardware being leased well then it down to them to change it, simple really.

But what would is so unresponsible is the fact they did not inform people about this pending service disruption.

Link.

vulnerable person bt

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

sweat the asset, plough all your budget into sub sales and marketing…until the customers head for the exit

Given the demographic we're talking about, that might be an unfortunate choice of words

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

sweat the asset, plough all your budget into sub sales and marketing…until the customers head for the exit

Given the demographic we're talking about, that might be an unfortunate choice of words

Indeed it is, as an elderly person, I m triggered by this.

Expect a visit from the thought police and/or the Spanish Inquisition. Hate crime at its worst.

"If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues."

How does one provider find out all the other providers at that address? Nice idea but very impracticle.

Poor choice of words. Nothing ill intended implied honestly.

How about: “expressly not renew and leave their contracts”. More words but less possible unintended negative connotation.

In reply to a post by Rhynchelma:

... and/or the Spanish Inquisition

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

Edited by ambrougham (Thu 09-Jun-22 21:08:54)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Poor choice of words. Nothing ill intended implied honestly.

How about: “expressly not renew and leave their contracts”. More words but less possible unintended negative connotation.

It's too late. Once it's been written, it can be dragged up even decades later to prove what a morally repugnant person that you are/were. 😎

Edited by Rhynchelma (Fri 10-Jun-22 01:06:54)

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/head+for+the+exit

The Community Alarm equipment actually has a Cellular option already and a unit that is ethernet with cellular fallback is on the cards shortly.

Alright I admit they are a bit behind the curve but they are well aware of the PSTN shuit-off. As an alarm user in the UK I am on the list to be notified as soon as the Tunstall Lifeline Smart Hub is in stock as that is all mylocal Council are waiting for.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues."

How does one provider find out all the other providers at that address? Nice idea but very impracticle.

It already been done. It not that difficult to find out, the information is rather open to public already. If gave me you Post Code I would know who responsiable infrastructure in your area Gas/Electric/Water(water,sewerage).
Telecoms is bit different, 98%+ is Openreach but for Hull KCOM. Cable mainly Virgin. It a bit issue is with AltNets. Yep I know what ThinkBroadband do, but it not source that guarantees to be 100% correct.
This is something which Ofcom needs to sort out. Unless I missed something.

Gas infrastructure https://www.findmysupplier.energy/
Electricity infrastructure https://www.energynetworks.org/operating-the-network...
Water infrastructure https://www.water.org.uk/advice-for-customers/find-y...

Fully aware of that as I commented that BT provide teh necessary level of support.

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues."

How does one provider find out all the other providers at that address? Nice idea but very impracticle.

It already been done. It not that difficult to find out, the information is rather open to public already. If gave me you Post Code I would know who responsiable infrastructure in your area Gas/Electric/Water(water,sewerage).
Telecoms is bit different, 98%+ is Openreach but for Hull KCOM. Cable mainly Virgin. It a bit issue is with AltNets. Yep I know what ThinkBroadband do, but it not source that guarantees to be 100% correct.
This is something which Ofcom needs to sort out. Unless I missed something.


Gas infrastructure https://www.findmysupplier.energy/
Electricity infrastructure https://www.energynetworks.org/operating-the-network...
Water infrastructure https://www.water.org.uk/advice-for-customers/find-y...

Nah, vulnerable customer data isn't being shared en-masse between different industries like you are making out. A vulnerable customer for a gas & electricity supplier isn't always the same for say a water company either. Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable. Water companies for example have a target number of customers who need to be classed as vulnerable, so you'll find the criteria for many companies being relaxed to "hit the target".

Nah, vulnerable customer data isn't being shared en-masse between different industries like you are making out. A vulnerable customer for a gas & electricity supplier isn't always the same for say a water company either. Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable.

In reference to www.ovoenergy.com/help/priority-services-register:

Your data will be stored on our secure systems. We’ll only share it when necessary, with those who supply your electricity, gas or water – such as:

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues. There is no harm to informing each of your utility providers of the issue at that address, in fact it advisable to do so because it just a should.

What has Ovo Energy got to do with Water?
I never tried stated it was on mass. I advised it good idea to tell each of providers.
Should means should not must.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Water companies for example have a target number of customers who need to be classed as vulnerable, so you'll find the criteria for many companies being relaxed to "hit the target".

Sorry I dont know of set target number that exists, tryied but can not find one at Ofwat but they are keen for Water companies to share information on PSR to other utils.
I did bit skimming throw there last report that I can find from 2016. Unable to find later one.

In reference to www.ofwat.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/prs_web20160218vulnerab...:

Page 13 (PDF page 14)
3. Partnership and adopting good practice is important, whether with other
utilities or third party organisations.
Representatives of water companies stressed that it was very important to
collaborate – or partner with – other utilities and third party organisations to identify
and assist customers in vulnerable circumstances. For example, involving third
party organisations in staff training helps to ensure that they respond
knowledgeably and sensitively to those customers needing specific assistance. In
addition, partnering with other utilities and third party organisations can help to
identify accurately the assistance required and signpost available resources to
ensure that the customer receives the most appropriate support.

The definition of who is valuable customer is same for Gas/Electric/Water/Telcoms they all comes under same set laws.
Care Act 2014
Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006
Health and Social Care Act 2012
Mental Capacity Act 2005
Equality Act 2010
Human Rights Act 1998
Data Protection Act 2018
Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998
There few other laws, statutory instruments and case law But this would go on and on....

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

Nah, vulnerable customer data isn't being shared en-masse between different industries like you are making out. A vulnerable customer for a gas & electricity supplier isn't always the same for say a water company either. Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable.

In reference to www.ovoenergy.com/help/priority-services-register:

Your data will be stored on our secure systems. We’ll only share it when necessary, with those who supply your electricity, gas or water – such as:

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues. There is no harm to informing each of your utility providers of the issue at that address, in fact it advisable to do so because it just a should.

What has Ovo Energy got to do with Water?
I never tried stated it was on mass. I advised it good idea to tell each of providers.
Should means should not must.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Water companies for example have a target number of customers who need to be classed as vulnerable, so you'll find the criteria for many companies being relaxed to "hit the target".

Sorry I dont know of set target number that exists, tryied but can not find one at Ofwat but they are keen for Water companies to share information on PSR to other utils.
I did bit skimming throw there last report that I can find from 2016. Unable to find later one.

In reference to www.ofwat.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/prs_web20160218vulnerab...:

Page 13 (PDF page 14)
3. Partnership and adopting good practice is important, whether with other
utilities or third party organisations.
Representatives of water companies stressed that it was very important to
collaborate – or partner with – other utilities and third party organisations to identify
and assist customers in vulnerable circumstances. For example, involving third
party organisations in staff training helps to ensure that they respond
knowledgeably and sensitively to those customers needing specific assistance. In
addition, partnering with other utilities and third party organisations can help to
identify accurately the assistance required and signpost available resources to
ensure that the customer receives the most appropriate support.

The definition of who is valuable customer is same for Gas/Electric/Water/Telcoms they all comes under same set laws.
Care Act 2014
Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006
Health and Social Care Act 2012
Mental Capacity Act 2005
Equality Act 2010
Human Rights Act 1998
Data Protection Act 2018
Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998
There few other laws, statutory instruments and case law But this would go on and on....

Like I said, each industry and actually most companies have different views on what they class vulnerable as, and what they accept on their PSR’s. The “laws” you refer to might well contain a minimum level of who should be covered however they don’t contain a full list, as many companies go over and above.

Working in the industry I know there is a required proportion of customers that water companies are expected to have on their PSR’s by the end of AMP7.

There is no requirement at present for different utilities to share information about their PSR customers either, and there is no industry database setup that could support this at present.

Edited by gary333 (Fri 10-Jun-22 19:23:59)

Whilst its good for the quick response, why arent they on more modern communications technology? No mobile signal there?

Becasue the emergency alarms are only PSTN! Unless you want to pay silly prices for the mobile variants and thise are monitored "centrally" rather than locally.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable.

For a given address, there is only one "company" as such, for each utility. For electricity for example, it is the distribution network operator (DNO) that has the responsibility to maintain the mandated priority service register, not the retail suppliers. Similar arrangement for gas. For water, it happens that the network operators and retail suppliers are the same company.

How that translates to an area like telecoms with multiple network operators, not sure. You would think that each network operator should be mandated to operate a PSR, in the same manner.

In reply to a post by sparky_paul:

In reply to a post by gary333:

Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable.

For a given address, there is only one "company" as such, for each utility. For electricity for example, it is the distribution network operator (DNO) that has the responsibility to maintain the mandated priority service register, not the retail suppliers. Similar arrangement for gas. For water, it happens that the network operators and retail suppliers are the same company.

How that translates to an area like telecoms with multiple network operators, not sure. You would think that each network operator should be mandated to operate a PSR, in the same manner.

Not so. Both energy companies and the various DNO’s maintain their own PSR’s. The energy companies should be notifying the DNO’s, yes, but the energy companies don’t integrate their PSR’s as a 1-2-1 copy or single source of truth. You will find certain types of customer are on an energy companies PSR for “enhanced” reasons that are not covered by a DNO’s PSR.

My point above about there being no database across industries was in relation to a central database I.e. where details could be shared with any utility, regardless of where a person moves to in a seamless way, and not having to repeatable apply (move in the sense of geography and between suppliers). At present when a customer is added to say a water companies PSR they will also get a form to sign where they can agree for their information to be shared with the relevant DNO for that area. Yes, details would be shared with the DNO, and if the selected options are eligible reasons for the DNO the address would be added, but then it wouldn’t then update the energy company.

Edited by gary333 (Sun 03-Jul-22 17:00:04)

In reply to a post by gary333:

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

In reply to a post by broadband66:

"If contact one utils provider they should info all other utils providers of that address issues."

How does one provider find out all the other providers at that address? Nice idea but very impracticle.

It already been done. It not that difficult to find out, the information is rather open to public already. If gave me you Post Code I would know who responsiable infrastructure in your area Gas/Electric/Water(water,sewerage).
Telecoms is bit different, 98%+ is Openreach but for Hull KCOM. Cable mainly Virgin. It a bit issue is with AltNets. Yep I know what ThinkBroadband do, but it not source that guarantees to be 100% correct.
This is something which Ofcom needs to sort out. Unless I missed something.


Gas infrastructure https://www.findmysupplier.energy/
Electricity infrastructure https://www.energynetworks.org/operating-the-network...
Water infrastructure https://www.water.org.uk/advice-for-customers/find-y...

Nah, vulnerable customer data isn't being shared en-masse between different industries like you are making out. A vulnerable customer for a gas & electricity supplier isn't always the same for say a water company either. Different industries (and even different companies within) have different requirements to be classed as vulnerable. Water companies for example have a target number of customers who need to be classed as vulnerable, so you'll find the criteria for many companies being relaxed to "hit the target".

As this, couple of years back my electricity supplier classed me as vulnerable, but ISP wouldn't as I wasn't on benefits and was expected to return to full health after operation.

In reply to a post by gary333:

In reply to a post by sparky_paul:

For a given address, there is only one "company" as such, for each utility. For electricity for example, it is the distribution network operator (DNO) that has the responsibility to maintain the mandated priority service register, not the retail suppliers.

Not so. Both energy companies and the various DNO’s maintain their own PSR’s. The energy companies should be notifying the DNO’s, yes, but the energy companies don’t integrate their PSR’s as a 1-2-1 copy or single source of truth. You will find certain types of customer are on an energy companies PSR for “enhanced” reasons that are not covered by a DNO’s PSR.

Is the the scope of the retail supplier's register mandated in legislation? I didn't think it was, and that the mandated PSR was maintained by the DNO.

I know most, if not all, retail suppliers have some sort of register, but their scope seems to vary, and I was specifically referring to the DNO's mandated responsibility.