Router Power Consumption

Is there anywhere that lists the power consumption of different types of router please?

Just moved back to NowTV from John Lewis as Plusnet didn't seem interested in my custom and the supplied Hub Two seems a lot bigger than the Sagecom 2704.

Edited by hk11 (Tue 06-Sep-22 08:29:12)

Look on te rating plate for the router - it will normally tell you.

Physical size does not matter.

It is a rebranded Sky Q Hub. A bit of Googling suggests it uses 8.5W at idle, probably twice what your Sagecom 2704 used.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/01/energy...

Rating plates are usually the worst case (startup, surge, full rated load etc.) and don’t always reflect typical / ordinary usage, which ought to be a fraction of what’s shown on the rating plate (which is more for electrical safety than anything else).

But it is teh best teh OP will get ...

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

A bit of Googling suggests it uses 8.5W at idle, probably twice what your Sagecom 2704 used.

Thanks for that.

As I suspected.

Only plate I can see is password one.

For around £20 you can get a 3-pin power meter such as the Voltcraft 4000pro. There are many to choose from. I have had mine for several years so there will certainly be others available by now.

They usually have a 3-pin plug and socket and a LCD screen. They go into the wall socket and the device goes into them.

They track power consumption to a couple of decimal places and usually can give cumulative use over time multiplied by the pre-programmed electricity unit cost.

Seconded for the plug-in power meter.

The one I have is this, although it was only £21.49 when I bought it 5 months ago. Looks like we have surge pricing for power meters now

It shows true power, as well as voltage, current, frequency, and power factor. It can also count accumulated energy use, like a utility meter, which is useful for things like fridges that turn themselves on and off.

Certainly worth having at least one device like this.

In reply to a post by DanielCoffey67:

For around £20 you can get a 3-pin power meter such as the Voltcraft 4000pro.

Thanks for the pointer.

I was just hoping there was a list somewhere, but my question has been answered above.

Basically the new router draws more current than the old one, so I have configured and installed the Sagemcom.

I am just surprised routers are not getting more efficient when power is costing so much.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Thanks for the pointer.

I was just hoping there was a list somewhere, but my question has been answered above.

Basically the new router draws more current than the old one, so I have configured and installed the Sagemcom.

I am just surprised routers are not getting more efficient when power is costing so much.

Routers these days need to do more than they used to, they have so much data go through them, so the CPU have to be more powerful and more memory. They use Arm CPUs which are power efficient.

I have an old sagecom router, it is ADSL, but that takes 15watts, so I think things have improved.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Looks like we have surge pricing for power meters now

Everything has gone up, bar our incomes of course.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have an old sagecom router, it is ADSL, but that takes 15watts, so I think things have improved.

Sure over the years, but maybe not over a few months?

The cheaper to run router does all I need, so I stick with that until I find I need something the more hungry router does that I need.

Sure over the years, but maybe not over a few months?

Design, build and implementation don’t just happen overnight. It costs the supplier.

Do you honestly expect the manufacturers to have held a meeting a few months back, noticed the war in Ukraine, how poorly our government has handled things, how the cost of pretty much every damn thing has shot up, and thought … “let’s throw our belt buckles at this issue, and see if we can’t shave a couple of pence off the power consumption costs to our customers ?”

That ain’t how it is.

New Wi-Fi standards along with needing more powerful hardware for faster connections require more power.
If you compare data throughput to power used you will find that new routers are way more efficient.

Thanks
Dan

My router based on an Intel x86 J4125 @2Ghz is rated at 10w max.
It is powerful enough to run my router virtually and a couple of small containers for VPN etc and still sit around 5-6w.

It also offers many times the functionality of an ISP provided router and also route around 2gbit if required. It doesn't have wifi though so you have to factor that in as additional energy usage.

I appreciate not everyone wants to go down this route but it is possible to have a capable router without increasing your energy usage.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

That ain’t how it is.

It was a simple question; it really doesn't need any in depth annalysis.

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

If you compare data throughput to power used you will find that new routers are way more efficient.

For some that might be important.

I was just looking to see if the extra consumption was worth it.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Seconded for the plug-in power meter.

The one I have is this, although it was only £21.49 when I bought it 5 months ago. Looks like we have surge pricing for power meters now

Looks like the same one is available on ebay for around the £13 mark.
Thanks for the info. Was looking at this last night, good to have confirmation that it's a good unit.

Thank you. I am wondering how it can show a cost figure. Maybe you have to manually enter a unit price.

From ebay item :

"Description:
Great for Energy Consumption Monitor: used to measure the power consumption, current, voltage, power and cost of the connected appliance, helping save energy and money.
7 Display Modes: it can display time, watt, cost, cumulative electrical quantity, voltage, frequency, current, power factor, minimum power, maximum power, price.
Large LCD display: easy and clear to read. No backlight / With backlight optional.
Electricity Price Setting: you can set the electricity price according to the actual condition in 00.00 COST/KWh~99.99 COST/KWh.
Overload Setting: when current load power goes beyond the max. load power, the letters "OVERLOAD" on LCD will keep blinking to remind you.
"

Yes it says you can.

I run an Eero Pro 6 which uses about 8w so rounded off to 10w for a week works out at about 1.6Kwh which is around 43p a week if my maths is right (and I had a late night )

Make sure you have a unit sold after 2013 when eu updated regulations on network standby.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/energy-climate-change-envi...

Using a Fritzbox 7530 as an access point on 2.4Ghz only takes about 5 watts with about 6 devices online. Enabling 5Ghz band as well adds about 2 watts. Dont turn on more capabilities than you nyeed.

More background here
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://storage.topten....

Added -
About 4.5 watts as vdsl modem dhcp etc, no wifi.
Add 1 watt for dect base station (non eco mode)
Add 2 watts for wifi 2.4Ghz
Add 2 watts for 5Ghz

Nb suspect wifi & dect consumption depend on number of devices connected and distance from base Station

Remember 1 watt always on is about 10Kw hour per year!

Edited by DrBob (Thu 08-Sep-22 15:06:38)

Unfortunately it will cost more next month, but how much is difficult to know as telling me that a price cap of £2,500 does not give me much idea about what the daily charge and unit cost will be.

I don't know for sure but I would assume as the old price cap £1971 and the new one is £2500 then I would guess you would be looking at an approximate 27% increase in charges. But presumably because charging is made up of both standing charge and unit cost then suppliers could split it differently across those 2 charges - so if you are a high user of units then probably better to go for a supplier with a higher standing charge and lower unit cost, for a low user go for lower standing charge with higher unit cost.

That is a reasonable assumption but when the price cap was going to increase from 1971 to 3549 (80%) the unit cost rose from 28 to 52 (85.7%) as the daily charge only rose from 45 to 46. (2,2%) Figures from Ofcom which may get updated!

Average unit rates are some thing I can understand unlike the total annual energy cost figures. It is about 37 years since I last had a gas supply.

The £2,500 total is based on a typical household usage of 2900kWh electricity and 12000kWh gas.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62833623
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/09/energ...

We'll get details soon, but I would estimate about 37-38p/kWh for electricity under the new price cap.

In reply to a post by smouty:

My router based on an Intel x86 J4125 @2Ghz is rated at 10w max.
It is powerful enough to run my router virtually and a couple of small containers for VPN etc and still sit around 5-6w.

It also offers many times the functionality of an ISP provided router and also route around 2gbit if required. It doesn't have wifi though so you have to factor that in as additional energy usage.

I appreciate not everyone wants to go down this route but it is possible to have a capable router without increasing your energy usage.

I was thinking of going down that road as routers do seem to be rubbish, i have a very old TP link one, that is the best one, but Wi-fi is only 2.4Ghz.

I will stay with the plusnet one I have for a while and maybe have a look later on. when Apple have decided what they are doing with the MAc mini if i go that route, I will have a look at what money i have in my computer update account and them may do something like you have done.

The Mac mini is never likely to be a good choice for this task. You want something that has at least two built in network interfaces (you don’t want to be messing around with USB ones). And you’d also be restricted to running router software that had ARM builds available, the M1 Mini can’t run x86 virtual machines.

One of the low power Intel based mini PCs with multiple network adapters is a far better option, or running the router in a VM on an x86 machine.

I think the Mac Mini is a separate purchase - I if a Mac Mini is bought then upgrading router infrastructure might be worthwhile as a separate provision.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

the M1 Mini can’t run x86 virtual machines.

Not using VirtualBox? I used to run this on an admittedly Intel mini, can you really not use it on M1?

But there are so may flavours and options, I may be confused or generally wrong...

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Not using VirtualBox? I used to run this on an admittedly Intel mini, can you really not use it on M1?

No virtualbox on ARM architecture (M1 etc). I can't find the link, but it was confirmed by Oracle. (the developers).

If you buy Parallels or VMWare they have preview versions of their products that run on M1 and can run ARM architecture operating systems, not Intel. So you can run versions of Linux, and you can (as a home user) sign up to MS Insider and get test versions of Win11 for ARM, but you CANNOT run Intel operating systems.

Its causing a bit of "fun" at work.... people whom chose Mac years ago and then got upgraded to new M1 kit and its nice and fast then find they can't prototype their applications in a Linux or Windows virtual machine. Now time to use the Cloud and rent a VM

Edited by jchamier (Fri 09-Sep-22 17:03:53)

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

The Mac mini is never likely to be a good choice for this task. You want something that has at least two built in network interfaces (you don’t want to be messing around with USB ones). And you’d also be restricted to running router software that had ARM builds available, the M1 Mini can’t run x86 virtual machines.

One of the low power Intel based mini PCs with multiple network adapters is a far better option, or running the router in a VM on an x86 machine.

LOL, no the Mac mini is not going to be for a router, I saved up money for the mac mini, but I am waiting to see what they do, if they bring a new one out I will buy that, I will see what money is left over and then decide if i am going to buy a small computer for a router.


i am still putting money aside, i have £1,132 in the account i have set up for it. I doubt a new mac mini what ever CPU they stick in it will cost that.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Not using VirtualBox? I used to run this on an admittedly Intel mini, can you really not use it on M1?

No virtualbox on ARM architecture (M1 etc). I can't find the link, but it was confirmed by Oracle. (the developers).

If you buy Parallels or VMWare they have preview versions of their products that run on M1 and can run ARM architecture operating systems, not Intel. So you can run versions of Linux, and you can (as a home user) sign up to MS Insider and get test versions of Win11 for ARM, but you CANNOT run Intel operating systems.

Its causing a bit of "fun" at work.... people whom chose Mac years ago and then got upgraded to new M1 kit and its nice and fast then find they can't prototype their applications in a Linux or Windows virtual machine. Now time to use the Cloud and rent a VM

I'm running Win 11 and Ubuntu 22.04 (desktop + server variants) under Parallels 18 on a MBP M1 Max. Works like a charm.

For x86_64 stuff, including Win Server 2022 and various other bits and bobs, mostly Ubuntu based, I'm virtualising them on a little ProxMox cluster of four ThinkCentre M720q tiny boxes. A couple of nodes have 4-port Intel (i350-T4) 1Gbs cards and one has a 2 x 10Gbs Intel NIC in it for testing.

Keeping the architectures separate seems to be the simplest and most efficient way to go.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I'm running Win 11 and Ubuntu 22.04 (desktop + server variants) under Parallels 18 on a MBP M1 Max. Works like a charm.

Yes, PCPro magazine had a few articles about running ARM versions of OSes on the M1 using Parallels (and VMWare have a version of Fusion in beta that does the same). However my commercial advisors say that the Insider release isn't suitable for "business" and MS currently won't actually SELL a licence for ARM Windows. Many have assumed they are in some exclusive contract with Qualcomm due to the SQ1 processor in one of the Surface laptops.

For x86_64 stuff, including Win Server 2022 and various other bits and bobs, mostly Ubuntu based, I'm virtualising them on a little ProxMox cluster of four ThinkCentre M720q tiny boxes. A couple of nodes have 4-port Intel (i350-T4) 1Gbs cards and one has a 2 x 10Gbs Intel NIC in it for testing. Keeping the architectures separate seems to be the simplest and most efficient way to go.

I like those tiny ThinkCentre machines.

Which are saying 34p per kWh. I wonder if they will be proved right! I hope so as I don't happen to use gas.

I think I missed a trick there. Although I'm signed up to the Insider program I downloaded a version of Windows 11 from Microsoft via Parallels without giving my Insider credentials and had to purchase a licence from Microsoft which they then validated. So they do seem to be selling Windows 11 for ARM, at least to me.

My W11 for ARM instance is also fully activated and properly licensed. Wasn’t really an issue.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

Which are saying 34p per kWh. I wonder if they will be proved right! I hope so as I don't happen to use gas.

I think anyone hoping for the electric unit rate to be 34p even before adding on 5% VAT (35.5p) are likely to be disappointment, as @candlerb has said its likely to be around the 37p rate inclusive of the 5% VAT, the magic figure you are looking at getting to for just electric is £1250 when using 2900KWh of electric and a year's worth of daily standing charges.

Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Sep-22 15:09:36)

I didn't realise I had to pay for it *as well* as being in the Insider program. I wondered if they'd dropped the Insider program requirement.

How much did you pay MS for the W11 licence you referred to above?

I installed this VM around November last year. I didn't buy anything from MS, but was and am still enrolled in the Insider program. This instance is on the Beta channel.

I have a couple of Win 11 Pro licence keys I bought online last year - but actually cant recall if I used one of the keys now. They were pretty cheap around £15 or so.

My other Lenovo laptop was upgraded from Win 10 to Win 11 Pro gratis.

In reply to a post by rogerh:

I think I missed a trick there. Although I'm signed up to the Insider program I downloaded a version of Windows 11 from Microsoft via Parallels without giving my Insider credentials and had to purchase a licence from Microsoft which they then validated. So they do seem to be selling Windows 11 for ARM, at least to me.

That's good to know, hopefully things are moving in the right direction! My employer is large, has a big legal dept, so any doubt usually means a "no" from them

I had to pay the full price from Microsoft before they would validate it. This is why I wonder if the Insider preview is still operating. I wonder if Parallels directed me to the wrong channel??

In reply to a post by rogerh:

I had to pay the full price from Microsoft before they would validate it.

From a bit of searching the internet, it seems MS don't officially sell Windows for ARM except to OEMs ; BUT if you happen to buy a key retail (MS think you're using it with x86/64) then it just works. Perhaps the detail is in the legalise which would explain my employers stance.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/al...

More here (for win10 read win11, its the same policy):
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/al...

Edited by jchamier (Sat 10-Sep-22 18:37:15)

Its a shame you didn't have a (previously purchased) W11 licence key to use. I bet MS charged you royally for a licence.

Separately I had an issue activating a copy of Win Sever 2022 and call up their licensing help line and they helped me activate it over the phone. Again using my own self sourced licence key.

Doubtless a big corporate will be a bit different (and heaven knows they often cock up SW licensing at the best of times, not that vendors make it easy mind)....

but for a home or even small business use I would say as long as you've got a validly purchased licence key AND its been successfully activated by MS themselves, then you will be fine.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Doubtless a big corporate will be a bit different (and heaven knows they often cock up SW licensing at the best of times, not that vendors make it easy mind)....

but for a home or even small business use I would say as long as you've got a validly purchased licence key AND its been successfully activated by MS themselves, then you will be fine.

Don't most corporates use Microsoft SA licensing?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Doubtless a big corporate will be a bit different (and heaven knows they often cock up SW licensing at the best of times, not that vendors make it easy mind)....

Tell me about it, over 8 weeks to buy 10 MS 365 E3 licences is madness

but for a home or even small business use I would say as long as you've got a validly purchased licence key AND its been successfully activated by MS themselves, then you will be fine.

I hope so as I'm sure quite a few people are doing it, now that Parallels pretty much automates it. VMware Fusion is imminent I see too. I might have to get my M1 Mac back from loan to play with

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

The Mac mini is never likely to be a good choice for this task. You want something that has at least two built in network interfaces (you don’t want to be messing around with USB ones). And you’d also be restricted to running router software that had ARM builds available, the M1 Mini can’t run x86 virtual machines.

One of the low power Intel based mini PCs with multiple network adapters is a far better option, or running the router in a VM on an x86 machine.

I wouldn’t either, not that Adrian is ever thinking this.

Off topic but this clip from the LTT guys shows what a good job Apple did with the subsystem design on the ‘budget’ M1 Mini with 10GbE….

I tried SO HARD to break this… - M1 Mac Mini 10-gig Ethernet

In reply to a post by dect:

I think anyone hoping for the electric unit rate to be 34p even before adding on 5% VAT (35.5p) are likely to be disappointment, as @candlerb has said its likely to be around the 37p rate inclusive of the 5% VAT

I wanted to revisit (aka apologise for) my prediction above as it appears to be totally wrong, I have now been informed by my supplier what their standard tariff for electric only will be from 1st October 2022 and it's a lot closer to the 34p previously suggested by Michael_Chare than I expected at a little over 35p/KWh including VAT

That is interesting to know. I suspect that gas prices have perhaps gone up more than might have been expected. My electricity supplier eonnext still won't tell me what the price will be.in October.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i am still putting money aside, i have £1,132 in the account i have set up for it. I doubt a new mac mini what ever CPU they stick in it will cost that.

FWIW, I just bought an M1 mac mini.

Looking at what they did with the Macbook Air, the M2 version costs £250 more than the M1 version, for same spec of RAM/SSD etc (although you do get a few niceties like a magsafe port, 1080p camera, and fast charging).

I reasoned that if and when the M2 mac mini comes out, it may well have a similar premium. It's a way for Apple to put up their prices, without an obvious price hike on existing models. Plus, I got the M1 at a decent discount from John Lewis - although it looks like they're out of stock at the moment.

I think the only time you would notice a CPU bottleneck is when rendering video or other intensive tasks. I honestly have never had an issue with the most basic M1 mini but my usage profile is pretty limited and all data is stored on a NAS.
It is also my sole gaming platform as I only use streaming services such as Stadia now.

It is blisteringly quick even in its base form.

The MSE calculator is a useful way to find out what you'll be paying, updated with latest Govt action.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/what-are...

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

My electricity supplier eonnext still won't tell me what the price will be.in October.

A friend of mine with EONNEXT is being offered "Next Flex" as the only option after fix plan ends, and the prices are pretty much the same as those on Money Saving Expert, and announced on Gov.uk. As dect posted above.

The unit prices are in this fact sheet:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-bi...

If you’re on a standard variable tariff

The average unit price for dual fuel customers paying by direct debit will be limited to 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas, inclusive of VAT, from 1 October.

These unit prices have been passed to suppliers to ensure that they are used to calculate bills on time for 1 October.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I wouldn’t either, not that Adrian is ever thinking this.

Off topic but this clip from the LTT guys shows what a good job Apple did with the subsystem design on the ‘budget’ M1 Mini with 10GbE….

I tried SO HARD to break this… - M1 Mac Mini 10-gig Ethernet

There is no way I would spend that much on a MAc mini just to use it as a router.

LTT only like Windows and Intel, they hate anything else.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Looking at what they did with the Macbook Air, the M2 version costs £250 more than the M1 version, for same spec of RAM/SSD etc (although you do get a few niceties like a magsafe port, 1080p camera, and fast charging).

I reasoned that if and when the M2 mac mini comes out, it may well have a similar premium. It's a way for Apple to put up their prices, without an obvious price hike on existing models. Plus, I got the M1 at a decent discount from John Lewis - although it looks like they're out of stock at the moment.

I will wait and see, I am in no rush. to be honest i am just fed up with Windows and the way MS is going.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I will wait and see, I am in no rush. to be honest i am just fed up with Windows and the way MS is going.

and I'm the opposite, the apple hardware (M1/M2) is great, but I don't like the way that macOS has progressed, very much the "appliance" similar to iPad for me.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

and I'm the opposite, the apple hardware (M1/M2) is great, but I don't like the way that macOS has progressed, very much the "appliance" similar to iPad for me.

A friend of mine have been using MAcs for years, since the old G2 macs and she thinks the same as you in some years, her Mac pro, the trash can one have not been updated for a while as she don't like the newer Mac OS.
she have got herself a Mac book air M1, but she only use that for light work.

I just want something different, fed up with windows, i would change to Linux permanently, I am using mint as I type this now, but the software is not there .

Anyway, once I decide which way I am going when I update any money I have left i will look at making my own router or just getting something better than I have now. with the way energy bills is going, having something taking less energy is a good idea,, that also include my normal computer as well when I am doing stuff that don't require a lot of energy.
this machine as i am using it now is taking a 100watts, including the monitor

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I just want something different, fed up with windows, i would change to Linux permanently, I am using mint as I type this now, but the software is not there .

Is there any objection to setting up your system to run only Linux then using Wine, Vmware or similar to run the Windows only programs you need?

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I just want something different, fed up with windows, i would change to Linux permanently, I am using mint as I type this now, but the software is not there .

Is there any objection to setting up your system to run only Linux then using Wine, Vmware or similar to run the Windows only programs you need?

I tried wine a while ago and it failed on software I needed to run, VMware is ok, but some of the software I use just don't;t work that well on virtual hardware.
but I may give Wine another go and see if itis better.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

this machine as i am using it now is taking a 100watts, including the monitor

That's impressive, my PC and monitors uses between 500 and 700 watts peak.

Render a few 4K videos and that soon maxes it out and uses all the juice.

I remember installing Samsung Magician, SSD control software, which set my processor to performance mode (100% at all times), wasting power, with no warning. That was pretty antisocial of it

That's quite a power consumption., 700w is close to a 1 bar electric fire. I would hate to have to pay the power bill for 4 of us at that consumption.

500-700w is crazily inefficient no?

With the high price of energy it wouldn't take long for the Mac Studio to pay for itself

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

I remember installing Samsung Magician, SSD control software, which set my processor to performance mode (100% at all times), wasting power, with no warning. That was pretty antisocial of it

That sounds like a corrupt install, or a clash with some other software to get into such a tight loop.

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

That's impressive, my PC and monitors uses between 500 and 700 watts peak.

Render a few 4K videos and that soon maxes it out and uses all the juice.

Oh yeah it will take far more power if i start rendering video, but not as high as yours, but then it only has a AMd r7 1700 in and a RX 5700 video card.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

That sounds like a corrupt install, or a clash with some other software to get into such a tight loop.

I observed it on more than one PC, and according to this post I wasn't the only one: https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/13...

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

I observed it on more than one PC, and according to this post I wasn't the only one: https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/13...

Well the tool has features to "optimise performance" which go and change system settings such as power plans if the user choses to.

Not sure what that has to do with maxing out the CPU?? The power plan can be "always on" which stops any software configured throttling (including speed step) but its not the same as being on 100% utilisation? Unless I've misunderstood.

I set my work laptop to always on, as I when I need the CPU to run, I need it to run at 100%, as I use a lot of VMs. The difference in the power draw for the CPU compared to the external 27" screen is tiny though.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Well the tool has features to "optimise performance" which go and change system settings such as power plans if the user choses to.

I didn't opt to use any maximum power settings. In fact if I remember right, it was usually on uninstallation that it happened. Possibly they meant to reset the power plan to normal and it instead ended up setting it to the maximum performance plan.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Not sure what that has to do with maxing out the CPU?? The power plan can be "always on" which stops any software configured throttling (including speed step) but its not the same as being on 100% utilisation? Unless I've misunderstood.

The 100% I refer to is the CPU frequency, not utilisation. I'm not sure on the power implications of not letting the CPU reduce its frequency from e.g. 3.6 Ghz to 0.8 Ghz, but I'm guessing it's something.

In reply to a post by smouty:

500-700w is crazily inefficient no?

With the high price of energy it wouldn't take long for the Mac Studio to pay for itself

I mean my PC has the following:

Intel Core i9-10850K CPU @ 3.60GHz
64GB RAM (2x 32 GB 3600Mhz)
ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) (LGA1200)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER

931GB KINGSTON SA2000M81000G (M.2 SSD)
931GB KINGSTON SA2000M81000G (M.2 SSD)

There are 3 old HDD's used for games in a RAID giving me 1.36TB

the CPU cooler is a Corsair H100i platinum
we are talking 7 fans in total, I never close the room its in as otherwise its like being in a sauna

No they don’t. They have a whole Apple sub channel for a start. Then Linus uses an Apple Watch and AirPods. And they say plenty of favourable things about plenty of Apple products.

Sure they have a lean towards WinTel, their core has been PC gaming after all, but to say they hate everything else just isn’t true.