Digital Voice and keeping broadband

So many parents have an ADSL service (No FTTP available in the area and no stop sell yet). Its fine for what they need, and they are happy to wait for FTTP. Current set up is SMPF with BT providing the voice services and Pulse8 broadband.

They got an email today from BT saying the voice service will be moving over to Digital Voice in the coming months. As they rarely use the landline these days for call, rather than using Digital Voice they have said there happy to not bother with that and just use their mobiles for call and keep the broadband with Pulse8 as is.

So my question, how do they go about this? Obviously they can just not plug in the phone for digital voice, but then it sounds like they will still be paying for the call service they no longer use. Ive said dont try and cancel with BT, as they may think you want to cease the line which they dont.

So can they just cancel the voice service, but keep there existing broadband supplier?

My guess, if they are just going to use ADSL/broadband, and need no voice service.

Contact their broadband supplier of choice (Pulse8 maybe) and ask them if they will take over the whole line and supply SOTAP (ADSL with no voice)

Thanks. Yea that is one option. Seems another is keeping line rental with BT, and moving to a PAYG calling plan (obviously no call charges will be made as there not using the phone)

I also believe the Digital Voice service only works with BT broadband? So hopefully they wont change them over yet anyway

Post deleted by Zarjaz

Duplicate post

Edited by Zarjaz (Mon 10-Jul-23 20:37:57)

I also believe the Digital Voice service only works with BT broadband?

Other CP’s offer similar, Sky, for instance.

Yea just reading up on it now.

Im not sure what the protocol is for people that have their phone with one provider but broadband with another. BT suggest they will offer a basic service for those without broadband so they can make call over VOIP, but no mention on what happens to those who have broadband just not with them

Seems Pulse8 do fibre + line rental for £30 (call side wont matter, they wont be using that)

Edited by bobble_bob (Mon 10-Jul-23 21:02:18)

Looks like they do basic broadband (ADSL rather than ‘fibre’) with line for £27. I’d call them to discuss taking over the line from BT in the first instance.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Looks like they do basic broadband (ADSL rather than ‘fibre’) with line for £27. I’d call them to discuss taking over the line from BT in the first instance.

That might mean changing from SMPF to an MPF bundle (TTB). That certainly would be good option until FTTP (broadband only) becomes available. Fortunately the OP's folks are not concerned about keeping an active phone number/voice service.

Yea seems for an extra £3 you get FTTC which seems worth it seeing as they have no interest in the landline side of things now

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Yea seems for an extra £3 you get FTTC which seems worth it seeing as they have no interest in the landline side of things now

Is the current ADSL broadband inadequate for their needs?

Not really, but there happy with Pulse8 so dont want to change. So its ADSL @ £27 with line rental or Fibre @ £30 so seems to make sense to get the extra speed for a few more quid. They do tend to stream alot

Edited by bobble_bob (Mon 10-Jul-23 22:24:00)

Fair enough, hopefully Pulse8 will provide them with a suitable service until FTTP becomes available.

Yea ive emailed them see what they can do. Be interesting what BT offer when the time comes, considering Digital Voice only works on there broadband. Just hope they dont try and force them into a service they dont want.

Edited by bobble_bob (Mon 10-Jul-23 22:51:08)

If they're not particularly fussed about voice, then it's pretty straightforward. Explore options with Pulse8.

Always better to move under your own steam, than be pushed.

SMPF , where the consumer has separate providers for telephony and broadband will be pretty rare these days , the vast majority of SMPF broadband providers gave their customers an ultimatum years ago , move to MPF or look for another broadband provider, it’s now something of a legacy product .
If your parents are keen to keep their broadband provider and are not particularly bothered about having a ‘landline’ type telephony service , then the obvious solution would be to get the broadband provider to change the terms of supply from SMPF to SoGEA/SOTAP and the BT ( and therefore DV ) involvement would be removed, this may need a certain amount of customer management so that both services are not ceased ( as would be the case if BT were simply advised to cease telephony) and broadband would have to be reordered meaning a period without any service.

A change from SMPF to a bundled MPF provision (full LLU, ADSL + PSTN voice) with Pulse8 shouldn't be a problem at this stage. However the OP was talking about upgrading ADSL to VDSL (FTTC) and this may require full details regarding various options from Pulse8, i.e. perhaps SoGEA etc.

Yea there happy to move the whole line to Pulse8. All Pulse8 FTTC packages include line rental and Pulse8 take over your phone number and still offer telephony services. However my parents wouldn't use this part or the service.

It seems easier to just let Pulse8 take over the full line

Out of interest how much are they paying now with the separate BT line provision + ADSL through Pulse8?

Pulse8 basic broadband is £21 i believe then whatever BT charge for line rental (not sure what it is these days). So yea there paying more having seperate providers for both

I think the fact the traditional phone service is going has pushed them to want to move

Pulse8 replied and said they can just fully take over the line so basically MPF and have broadband and voice with them.

Edited by bobble_bob (Tue 11-Jul-23 12:27:11)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Yea there happy to move the whole line to Pulse8. All Pulse8 FTTC packages include line rental and Pulse8 take over your phone number and still offer telephony services. However my parents wouldn't use this part or the service.

It seems easier to just let Pulse8 take over the full line

Since your parents don't currently have a FTTC broadband provision there will be a need for a compatible modem/router and there might be an activation charge.

Edit: if they do need to get a modem/router it might be a good idea to get a router that is also suitable for future FTTP use.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 11-Jul-23 16:34:01)

Yea its £50 with Pulse8 and engineer comes to fit faceplate. Router is ADSL/VDSL so no issue there.

Did read on another site

From 5th September 2023 – no new WLR line orders will be accepted

From the 5th September 2023, no new WLR line orders will be accepted* by Openreach.

This includes adding a new ADSL or FTTC broadband service to an existing analogue line, as well as like-for-like transfers.

Existing WLR-based services will continue to function.

So does that mean my parents needs to sort this pretty quickly? Or as they already have a copper base service, isnt this effected by the 5th Sept date? There exchange currently doesnt have a stop sell

Edited by bobble_bob (Tue 11-Jul-23 19:12:53)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Did read on another site

From 5th September 2023 – no new WLR line orders will be accepted

From the 5th September 2023, no new WLR line orders will be accepted* by Openreach.

This includes adding a new ADSL or FTTC broadband service to an existing analogue line, as well as like-for-like transfers.

Existing WLR-based services will continue to function.

So does that mean my parents needs to sort this pretty quickly? Or as they already have a copper base service, isnt this effected by the 5th Sept date? There exchange currently doesnt have a stop sell

Probably best to check with Pulse8 regarding those issues since they will potentially be providing the analogue voice service in the future bundled with either the current ADSL or a new VDSL broadband service.

As you’ve pointed out your folks are not particularly fussed about keeping the phone number and less so about whether it remains delivered as a traditional analogue line. So it’s kind of academic…

Saying that. If action is delayed till after 5 September - this would no doubt have to be provided as either a SOGEA (FTTC minus the analogue line) or SOTAP (ADSL minus the analogue line) based service. Still obviously delivered over copper though.

It is a little confusing since the Pulse8 site states that a "working telephone line" is required for both their ADSL and FTTC services...

The whole 5th September stop sell seems to be confusing as some sites suggest it only applies if a FTTP service is available

Yes that is true, personally I switched PSTN voice providers earlier this year prior to having FTTP installed/activated. Obviously FTTP is now available in my area and I wanted to change providers before September since my previous provider was no longer offering standalone PSTN voice.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

The whole 5th September stop sell seems to be confusing as some sites suggest it only applies if a FTTP service is available

Some of this confusion may stem from the fact that there are actually two OR stop sell programmes currently in play:

1. FTTP Priority Exchange
and
2. WLR Withdrawal

The latter is national and is what the 5th September date is all about. The former is exchange area-based, and has been phased in various tranches.

Although they are both stop sells - they are quite different in the impact in terms of what can or cant be ordered past the stop sell date.

All the detail are here.

Yea tried to understand that article earlier but wasnt much the wise. Mainly this part

Summary of UK 5 September 2023 stop sell rules:

Stop sell applies at a premises level only where that premises has access to an available GEA-FTTP, SOGfast or SOGEA product

So that seems to suggest it wont apply unless access to FTTP for the premises. So where it doesnt apply its business as usual for orders/migrations etc

Edited by bobble_bob (Tue 11-Jul-23 20:51:19)

A picture, or indeed a table is worth a thousand words.

Does this graphic help your understanding of it?

The key sub-bullet in the text below which you quoted is as follows:

"Where a premises has access to GEA-FTTP, SOGfast, SOGEA, MPF and FTTC (MPF only), no new supply of other products, CP transfers, working line takeovers, addition of broadband to voice lines, bandwidth modify, start of stopped lines or migrations to non-Ultrafast products will be permitted"

Order a SOGEA service from Pulse8 … and that’s it sorted.

It does thank you

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

The whole 5th September stop sell seems to be confusing as some sites suggest it only applies if a FTTP service is available

Then those sites are wrong.

Properties with copper but no FTTP will still be able to order SOGEA or SOTAP after that date - either by converting an existing WLR "phone line" to SOGEA/SOTAP, or by ordering a complete new line (copper pair) with SOGEA or SOTAP.

What they won't be able to do is to add or modify FTTC or ADSL to an existing "phone line" (WLR), nor order a new WLR line.

So anyone wanting to go from ADSL to FTTC wouldnt be able to after the 5th as that is modifying a connection?

If Pulse8 are not offering SOGEA now then it might be best to simply order their bundled ADSL and line rental product or bundled FTTC and line rental product fairly soon. I may be wrong but It seems that to be on the safe side the order should be made before the 5th September.

BT/Openreach are obviously trying to get out of supplying WLR/PSTN over copper by applying various restrictions prior to the PSTN switch off in 2025.

I think that's a fairly safe bet.

There will be (if we take Openreach at their word) no way to order a new FTTC service after 5 September - it will have to be SOGEA. Ditto for new ADSL, it would have to be SOTAP.

If I was the OP I'd be quizzing Pulse8 on their SOGEA-based service pricing. If they don't offer it now, then will have too pretty soonish.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

So anyone wanting to go from ADSL to FTTC wouldnt be able to after the 5th as that is modifying a connection?

Yup in a nutshell. That would be a new connection that is based on WLR, and as that's no longer on sale, your provider wont be able to order it.

If you want FTTC (with an underlying analogue line) order it before 5 September. After then you'll have to order SOGEA.

However by the end of 2025 you'll be on SOGEA in any event.

Yes his parents want to stay with Pulse8, otherwise SOGEA from another provider would be feasible at some point in the future since they would still have an active copper pair...

Yea i contacted Pulse8 for them this morning. I queried the 5th September date, and they said as their fibre packages are based on TTB LLU, this isnt effected by the stop sell on the 5th. Im not sure that is true tho.

Also not sure if they offer SOGEA either, but told my parents to move before the 5th so this is all academic

Out of interest do alot of providers offer SOGEA now? Seems they all will have to soon or risk people not being able to migrate to them

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 12-Jul-23 18:48:37)

Out of interest do alot of providers offer SOGEA now?

Yes.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Yea i contacted Pulse8 for them this morning. I queried the 5th September date, and they said as their fibre packages are based on TTB LLU, this isnt effected by the stop sell on the 5th. Im not sure that is true tho.

They're right. LLU is also known as "MPF" (metallic path facility). It's being withdrawn as part of the FTTP priority exchange programme, but not as part of WLR withdrawal.

See https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-al...

They ended up placing an order with Pulse8 fibre. They got an email from BT to say sorry you are leaving so the order must have been placed. No word from Pulse8 yet so there going to call tomorrow

Landline is due to move over on the 22nd, but they requested the switch to happen on the 29th (they wanted me to be here to help incase anything went wrong and thats only day off work i could get)

Can they move the landline over separately to fibre? Im wondering if they have to move that over first before upgrading to FTTC

Edited by bobble_bob (Wed 09-Aug-23 18:30:40)

So Pulse 8 originally put my switchover date of the landline and fibre upgrade as 22nd Aug depite me requesting the 29th. BT have said the phone service will move over on 22nd. Pulse8 have now amended this to the 29th as requested

Will this cause issues or will BT be informed of the new date?

I would think that the move from BT retail copper based voice and the upgrade to VSDL would be instigated by the gaining provider of the analogue voice service (i.e.Pulse8 who currently provide ADSL broadband) on the 29th since they will be taking over the line completely.

Good luck,