Moving Broadband and VOIP to different suppliers

Two years ago, a discussion here identified a problem for anyone who was buying Broadband bundled with their PSTN line - because both services were identified by a single ID (the PSTN number), there was no way to migrate Broadband and Voice separately without a two-week gap (or worse) in either Broadband or reception of calls on their PSTN number.

Has anything changed? Has anyone worked out a workaround?

The obvious options are a two-week spell without Broadband (if you port their phone number to a VOIP provider, then you lose Broadband when the PSTN number ports, and then wait to have a new SOGEA service enabled) ...

OR a two-to-three week period with their PSTN number giving Number Unobtainable (if they move to a Broadband supplier first, their PSTN number will stop at that point, and there is then a 10-15 working day period to get the number recovered and ported to VOIP.)

A&A (who I want to move to for VOIP) tell me that providers can do a "renumber and migrate" if they wish, but not all do. Plusnet refuse point-blank to do this for me when I want to migrate out. They apparently used to do it, but the agent I spoke to tried to explain that they had stopped doing this "because we are phasing out analogue circuits" (the very reason it is needed!).

And how is Ofcom getting on with tackling this issue that conflicts with their remit of removing barriers to competition?

Two years ago Ofcom said ""We acknowledge that at present, this is not an ideal situation as we encourage consumers to consider switching to benefit from better deals or services. Our aim is to increase the availability of fibre for everybody and we are working towards eradicating situations such as this."

They told me today that they still have no rules to make sure that customers can migrate smoothly.

It feels more and more that Ofcom is completely incapable of protecting user interests against the monopolistic tendencies of BT and other major players.

There seem to be several UK companies providing SOGEA broadband. How about you don't migrate from where you are, (Plusnet?), but start an SOGEA contract on a new "line" with a different provider.

As soon as that is up and running simply move your existing number to AAISP VOIP, thus ceasing your existing contract.

Not entirely true … the PSTN service has its directory number … but the FTTC service is identified by its OGEA reference, similarly SOGEA has an SGEA reference.

LLU lines have a unique identifier round this way they start LLTH

As with ADSL you could have your voice service with supplier A and your broadband with supplier B … commonly though , customers got an all inclusive package as it just made it simpler.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

As soon as that is up and running simply move your existing number to AAISP VOIP, thus ceasing your existing contract.

This was posted somewhere else on the internet in the last two weeks. I’ve not tried this myself, so beware… check everything before taking action.

If you want to retain your Plusnet VDSL broadband service, you should 'upgrade' your existing FTTC line to become Plusnet's "Fibre" product (which is their terminology for a SoGEA 80/20 connection). Doing this will disable the landline phone capability, and then you have a maximum of 30 days for your chosen VoIP provider to port your number to their service, otherwise your number will get recycled to someone else. Your Plusnet account should carry on as before (billing, emails, static IPs etc) just without an associated call package.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by pluralist:

As soon as that is up and running simply move your existing number to AAISP VOIP, thus ceasing your existing contract.

This was posted somewhere else on the internet in the last two weeks. I’ve not tried this myself, so beware… check everything before taking action.

If you want to retain your Plusnet VDSL broadband service, you should 'upgrade' your existing FTTC line to become Plusnet's "Fibre" product (which is their terminology for a SoGEA 80/20 connection). Doing this will disable the landline phone capability, and then you have a maximum of 30 days for your chosen VoIP provider to port your number to their service, otherwise your number will get recycled to someone else. Your Plusnet account should carry on as before (billing, emails, static IPs etc) just without an associated call package.

Yeah i've seen this floating about too. what problems occur is the main concern

As you can see from my post, there was no certainty that the OP is still with Plusnet.

Nor, of course, was I aware of the Plusnet advice you have posted. I would have expected all of their customers to be aware of it.

Can you see any way my solution would not work? At the cost of at most two months and possibly far less of two broadband services.

Caveats:

The OP may wish to keep the broadband with Plusnet;

There may be several months before a current contracted term expires, but given we aren't even anywhere near the end of 2025 that shouldn't be a problem;

The OP may be using Plusnet email;

We don't know if this is a Home or a Business connection. If it's Business there may be other factors I don't know about.

Re the second of those I expect Plusnet still charge a much reduced price for early termination. It used to be easily found in their price list but IIRC last time I looked everything was laid out differently.

I think it will work, but there may be a charge for having a new line installed, and it may be a bit messy if there's not a spare pair coming into the house and they need to pull a new cable in.

Whether this is worth it depends whether you can do without either your phone number or your broadband for a few weeks.

Thanks for ideas.

My main concern is general - I want to be able to advise friends and neighbours on their best options for BB/Voice, and the lack of any rules by Ofcom seem to be making it impossible for many to enjoy the free choice of supplier (which may be separate suppliers for BB and for Voice) that Ofcom is meant to promote. I have written to the Ofcom CEO to ask her to explain how they explain this.

I did speak to A&A (who I plan to use for my own VOIP) - and if I could afford their BB rates, then moving both services to A&A, and then migrating the BB away at a future point would work fine - because A&A know how to do a "renumber and migrate". BT know how to do that too. Plusnet used to know, I gather - but now apparently do not, and a complaint to the BT Chairman's Office received a (remarkably prompt) reply from Plusnet that said that they couldn't comment on the ability of the BT-branded services to make changes that were now apparently impossible for Plusnet.

I guess one could shop around for a combined BB+Voice supplier who would promise you now that they would do a "renumber and migrate" at the end of the contract, but I suspect that it would be a miserable business. (And probably more expensive than the combination that one would wish to buy if unconstrained).

So, the least-bad option seems perhaps to be to buy a second-hand 4G router (to keep me going on BB temporarily), migrate the VOIP, let the BB cease, and then re-order BB from the new supplier.

Can anyone advise whether one should expect to pay a connection fee to re-start BB-only (SOGEA) after VDSL been has ceased due to porting the PSTN number to a VOIP provider?

Taking all your four Opening Topics together you seem to be asking an awful lot of questions about various types of fibre connection, about which you clearly have little background knowledge.

You also seem to have some difficulty absorbing the information some very knowledgeable people have already provided in those.

Your declared purpose is to provide help and advice to friends and neighbours, including a village shop. Your story varying slightly between threads.

I suspect at least some of the people you wish to help might be expected to reward you for this advice, whilst having obtained it free of charge here. Perhaps you paying for a professionally provided course would be more appropriate.

Unless in fact the "helping others" is a fib, as many people asking questions like yours in the past have turned out to be students looking for free help in their coursework.

Edited by pluralist (Fri 01-Mar-24 16:04:50)

In reply to a post by TheManOnBus172:

Can anyone advise whether one should expect to pay a connection fee to re-start BB-only (SOGEA) after VDSL been has ceased due to porting the PSTN number to a VOIP provider?

Openreach charge the supplier a connection fee. It's up to the supplier if they wish to pass that on to the customer. Many don't because of the length/minimum term on the contract they offer.

Re: your other point.

OFCOM have done a fair bit recently to help switching. It's now part of the general conditions that suppliers must leave a phone number alive for 30 days after leaving so you can retrieve the number.
That means you can now switch from broadband+voice to a broadband only service without the risk of losing the number, which was always a big risk previously.

The new OTS (one touch switch) migration scheme OFCOM are introducing has been delayed multiple times as it involves all the Alt-Nets and it's turned out trickier than expected.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 01-Mar-24 17:36:54)

If it's not a xDSL migration then a broadband cease fee can be imposed by a former provider - that might be the case if a xDSL broadband cease occurred due to porting a PSTN phone number to VOIP?

It's actually quite confusing how it works and depends on who the losing underlying supplier was and who the new supplier is.

If you migrate broadband from ISP A (supplied by BT Wholesale) to ISP B (supplier by another supplier) then BT Wholesale can charge a cease fee to ISP A and it's up to ISP A is they want to pass that on to you.
This used to be common migrating away from Plusnet and you had to request cease fees be refunded.

So cease fees can be applied for a standard migration with no cease involved. I have no idea under what circumstances cease fees are able to be applied, it's way over my head.

I have no idea how they determined

I was charged a xDSL cease fee by a former ISP after I switched to FTTP broadband with a different provider. This did not involve voice since I previously had a SMPF service (TTB broadband/WLR voice.)

I guess an ISP such a A&A could handle a xDSL migration and convert/port analogue voice to VOIP (i.e. SoGEA + VOIP) and avoid any broadband cease fees being charged. A migration such as this could have the possible disadvantage of tying one to single provider for both voice and broadband though.

An interesting thread - I have asked Plusnet to change my contract to SOGEA, and that is scheduled to happen on 6th, freeing up my telephone number which is booked for porting into VOIPFONE on the following day. I shall be on tenterhooks after all that's been said here! I'll let you know how it goes.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

If it's not a xDSL migration then a broadband cease fee can be imposed by a former provider - that might be the case if a xDSL broadband cease occurred due to porting a PSTN phone number to VOIP?

If a cease fee is payable, it will be in your contract T&Cs (and the amount).

I would have *hoped* that if ISP B takes over your line with a SOGEA service, when ISP A previously provided WLR + xDSL, then that would be considered by Openreach and ISP A as a migrate away rather than a cease & reprovide - but whether that's actually the case or not I don't know.

Of course, if you cease your service before the end of your contract term, there will be an early termination penalty, which will also be in your T&Cs. But that's a different matter.

In reply to a post by TheManOnBus172:

I did speak to A&A (who I plan to use for my own VOIP) - and if I could afford their BB rates, then moving both services to A&A, and then migrating the BB away at a future point would work fine - because A&A know how to do a "renumber and migrate".

I can't see how that can work any more as it used to:

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-al...

"Under the WLR UK Stop Sell policy, CPs will not be permitted to request WLR working line takeovers"

Since you didn't transfer your line to A&A before 5 Sep 2023, I think the best that they can do is to provision you with a new SOGEA service and then reclaim your phone number from the pool. In that case, you may as well migrate your service to any ISP of your choice, and then get A&A to reclaim the number for VOIP only.

So, VOIPFONE tried to port my home number yesterday, instead of the requested date, and it failed as my contract with Plusnet is "under renewal", telling me that then the number will be "lost". I pointed out that their porting guide stated that "we can recover it if service was cancelled less than 31 days ago", so they will try again two days after the SOGEA contract goes live. Confidence level fading .....

Contract changed; but original phone number still live. Will see if it's gone tomorrow.

Landline gone. advised that the porting will take a week - why so long, specially in this age of computers?!

In reply to a post by St_Eric:

Landline gone. advised that the porting will take a week - why so long, specially in this age of computers?!

Number porting is a paper-based process. The following is from when I started the process with Sipgate:

"Please find the porting application forms attached below. If you choose to port your phone number we'll need you to complete and return hand signed, scanned copies of the forms by email.

The port will take at least 5 working days to process after sipgate submits your application. A later porting date can be requested in the Customer Port Details form."

One form was a "Letter of Authorisation", and the other was "Customer Port Details"

https://teamhelp.sipgate.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/212...

"The Letter of Authorisation or LOA is a standardised industry document used for both residential and business porting applications."

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Number porting is a paper-based process.

really? I ported from Plusnet to AAISP Voip in 2019 and just filled in AAISP's form online, and next I knew I had a "sorry you are leaving us" from Plusnet, and about 15 days it moved over. No paper forms at all.

In reply to a post by St_Eric:

Landline gone. advised that the porting will take a week - why so long, specially in this age of computers?!

Ofcom's anti-slamming rules, has to be time so that the losing party is sure you are doing this and it is not being done without your knowledge.

"The port will take at least 5 working days to process ."

Did all the same paperwork; but nowhere did I get advised it would take 5 days! If I'd have known that I would have scheduled it at a different time. Still, it can be worked around - if that's the only hiccup I shall be quite happy.

In reply to a post by St_Eric:

Landline gone. advised that the porting will take a week

Did VOIPFONE recover your "lost/free" number? Lost/free in the sense that is was available after the switch to SOGEA with PlusNet?