The other networks are indeed neighbours internet connections which, like yours, have wireless routers to allow wireless PCs to connect to them.

It seems the reason your Internet is more stable now could be because it is connecting at a lower speed. It may be it just couldn't hold on at the higher speeds. It may be the 15dB "margin" we have been talking about is because your line was having problems. This is what the BT systems do when there are issues with a line. You may be able to get BT out to look but as an engineer has already said that the stability issues were due to the "high speed" then it is likely they will continue to use this excuse.

Firstly, try asking BT to reset the SNR margin to 6dB. This may result in the stability problems coming back again.

Second, you could move to Sky LLU which may allow you to get better speeds during the day despite any stability issues.

Third, you could move to someone like AAISP (Andrew's and Arnold's) who may be able to progress the stability problems better than BT can (BT as an ISP are not exactly top notch at getting problems fixed by the BT Openreach engineers).

Finally, you may just have to live with lower speeds as BT may decide that is all they can support on your line.

Edited by ian72 (Wed 27-Oct-10 10:38:26)

Interesting options. I won't be able to do anything about them today as I will soon have to shutdown the computer for a while. I'll check the stats later today.

The problem ultimately is I think the BT line - I think I was almost 6 km from the exchange (the line must have taken a tortuous route) before it was rerouted to about 3km. I would like to try to get a reason for the high noise margin.

You think SKY might allow better speeds; you mentioned this in an earlier post. How confident would you be in their performance? They are cheap.

The AAISP option is intriguing. The snag would be in trying to gauge the weekday usage. I like what they say about sorting out problems - do you have any experience of their service? They could be a bit more expensive but could be worth it if they deliver as promised.

No personal experience of AAISP but from what is said on here they seem to deliver (but generally more expensive than mainstream ISPs).

Sky have a good technical solution but their support is not necessarily that great (although probably no worse than BT). Can't guarantee it would give serious boosts but the technology has the best chance of giving some improvement (other than a fix to the underlying problem). However, it is only likely to be better during daylight hours, once it gets dark it may not be much better (although that is conjecture based on previous experience).

Really do think your first step is to try and get BT to fix it. If that takes more than a month of messing about then I'd be looking to move to one of the others.

In reply to a post by oldperson:

Interesting options. I won't be able to do anything about them today as I will soon have to shutdown the computer for a while. I'll check the stats later today.

The problem ultimately is I think the BT line - I think I was almost 6 km from the exchange (the line must have taken a tortuous route) before it was rerouted to about 3km. I would like to try to get a reason for the high noise margin.

Usually the noise margin gets raised to combat noise on the line. The noise on the line is usually a result of bad phone wiring at home, or having unfiltered phone devices on the line - like a sky box..

For information I tried the AAISP site with my phone number.

They pointed out the line can support ADSL of up to 2mb or ADSL2+ up to 2.5mb and that they would establish over a 10 day period what the highest supportable speed would be.

I assume SKY would offer much the same.

Aim to contact BT tomorrow re my line. Hopefully I'll have enough time to get involved with them on the phone as they find someone who can help.

The figures are usually based on what the line is currently synced at (they come from BT ultimately). So, even if your line could do more you won't generally see more than you currently have on any of the checkers.

3km is not a particularly long line, so stop worrying about that as a factor. As I said earlier, you have the potential to connect at 5Mbps or more if there isn't an unusual noise problem still present.

When you shut the computer down in future, please leave the router on. We want to be able to see what the noise margin does without re-sync's/reconnections, and shutting the computer down doesn't affect that.

The high noise margin is due to the problems you have been having - possibly long ago as well as recently. We want to see how it behaves now we think the problems have gone.

Re the Openreach faceplate, that is good. It means we can probably stop worrying about the ring wire in the extension cables. But there is still probably an issue if they are flat-type (non-twisted pair). I shall look back at the photos later to see if I can tell.

What ian is saying about Sky is that Sky LLU is not the same (BT Wholesale) ADSL system as you are on now, and does not have the BT DLM which is explained on my website.

So a migration to them would immediately lower your margin, (I think they default to 9dB), giving you more speed. If you then had a disconnection in the evening and it came back slower, then a reconnection by you in the morning would straight away take you back to full speed. This is one of the benefits of any LLU.

Beware though. If their LLU capacity at your exchange is full, then they would try to talk you into their BT Wholsale based Sky Connect service, perhaps with a promise of an upgrade later. Do not go that way. The service is very poor and the upgrade may never happen.

So your options are to get BT to get the margin reset, and take it from there, or assuming you are out of minimum term/contract with BT get your MAC and migrate to Sky LLU Unlimited .

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

The noise on the line is usually a result of bad phone wiring at home, or having unfiltered phone devices on the line - like a sky box.

I think you've hit on a good point here.

We have seen that the presence or absence of the OP's phone/Sky gubbins has made no significant diff to his stats, which seems to rule out any adverse effect from the phone/Sky stuff. However, those tests were carried out at particular moments when the OP was busy with the tests.

It is possible at other various times, like during a call on an upstairs extn. or a Sky download, that the noise on the line increased dramatically causing the NM to increase to 15 dB at which it has frozen ever since.

So before he asks BT to reduce the NM, it could worthwhile for the OP to do w/out the upstairs 3x extensions (or get DECT instead) and just manage with the main phone at the master.

Also does Sky box need to be connected to the phone all the time?

Thanks to all of you for your recent posts.

Before adding to the discussion I'll just point out that at 16.49 just after powering up the computer (the router was left on all day) the noise margin was 15.6db and the download 2784 kbps and the upload 448 kbps.
The stats from the BT speedtester were:

Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
1633 Kbps

0 Kbps 2000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 1633 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 800-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2784 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 16.81:25.46:57.73 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
353 Kbps

0 Kbps 448 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 353 Kbps

I'm not keen on Dect phones and would only feel forced into them if there was definite proof that the present situation is causing a problem; it is a condition of having SKY tv that a working phone is connected to the SKY box (I'm out of contract, however, so they might not be willing to enforce it as they would lose a customer). I did try a different adsl filter this morning in case it was faulty but there was no noticeable difference on the noise margin level. The engineer who visited about 18 months ago saw the connections I have and did not advise me against them and he did seem to be going out of his way to be helpful.(I think he had a bit of bother setting up a new route for the line but he claimed it would make a big difference and it did.)

I'll leave the Hub (router) on when the computers (2 of them) shutdown tonight and I'll check the stats tonight and tomorrow morning. Tomorrow too I plan to phone BT. I'll try meantime to look at the difference between the BT approach and the SKY LLU approach as suggested by RobertoS [their internet site did say I could get SKY unlimited on my phone line when I input my phone number] although I won't be able to do it till later tonight.

It doesn't matter what you do at your end, the connection time noise margin will always be 15dB until BT alter it, though in just the few seconds it takes to get to read it after a connection it will have changed by a few percentage points. (In theory 10-14 days of almost absolute stability may improve it by 3dB, with that being repeatable, but it may not. The auto system that does that might have been switched off for your line).

We need to know what it is say three times in the day - morning, some time in the middle of the day, and last thing before you go to bed. Just for two or three days.

If you get BT to reset it, which costs you nothing except a bit of persuasion of their support, even if you decide to move to Sky you will not have done any damage. A reset can only do good.