In reply to a post by RobertoS:

BT are the best bet for migrating phone & broadband away from where you are. It may cost a bit more than some others, but after the first year migrating to a better deal is easier.

Just make sure when that time comes that you come here to check you aren't falling into the same trap again .

I'm not sure how exactly I can make sure I don't fall into the same trap again but I am certain that this is the best place to try - MANY THANKS

As it happens, I have finally had a sensible answer from someone knowledgeable at Tesco / Vodafone:

Thank you for your email, your case number is XXXXXXXX.

I'm sincerely sorry to hear of the difficulties you are experiencing in moving to your chosen provider. I'd also like to apologise for any frustration which may have been caused by our previous communications on the subject not being sufficiently clear.

The landline and broadband product which you currently receive from Tesco is a standard MPF (metallic path facility) product from BT Openreach. This means that your services should be able to transfer from ourselves directly to any other provider which uses BT Openreach MPF lines to deliver services. Generally, this is all UK service providers with the exception of Virgin Media's cable service.

Unfortunately, the case of transferring telephone numbers between providers can be more complex. When a telephone number is first created, it is allocated to a telephone company as park of a block of new numbers. That telephone company then becomes the "range holder" of that telephone number. Going forward, regardless of how many times the telephone number is transferred that relationship between range holder and telephone number remains.

When a customer places an order to move their telephone number from one provider to another, the gaining provider must apply to the range holder (not necessarily the existing provider) to "port" the telephone number to their network.

To give an example;
- A telephone number is created and allocated as part of a block to Sky. Sky become the range holder.
- Some time later, the owner of the telephone number places an order to move their service to PlusNet. PlusNet must place an order with Sky to "port" or re-point the telephone number to the PlusNet network.
- In a few years, the customer wishes to move from PlusNet to TalkTalk. TalkTalk must place an order with Sky *not PlusNet* for the telephone number to be re-pointed to the TalkTalk network.

Each time an order is placed to re-point a telephone number, a "porting agreement" must be in place between the range holder and the gaining provider. Most providers have these agreements with most other providers, but there are still some gaps.

In your case, TalkTalk will have applied to the range holder of your telephone number for re-pointing of the number to their network. It appears that this order is failing, which is why your transfer orders have been cancelled and TalkTalk have advised they will need to provide you with a new number to offer you service on their network.

Without knowing the range holder of your telephone number I cannot advise or speculate on what agreements may or may not be in place between TalkTalk and the range holder. I am however extremely confident that there are no barriers or impediments created by Tesco Broadband and Homephone to prevent you transferring your telephone number to the service provider of your choice.

If we can further assist you with information or advice to help TalkTalk resolve their problem processing your order, please do not hesitate to contact us.

I had assumed that Tesco would be the the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

As you say, it seems that "BT is my friend" on this occasion

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

I had assumed that Tesco would be the the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

We already did that http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362644-p...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by LockyOK:

I had assumed that Tesco would be the "range holder" of my telephone number - how can I find out who is?

We already did that http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362644-p...

So you are saying that BT is the "range holder" of my telephone number and it is BT who are messing TalkTalk about?

I don't know if it's BT or TT messing about.. I thought you got a similar response from Plusnet who are owned by BT?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I thought you got a similar response from Plusnet who are owned by BT?

No, PN never said OP had to change phone #; they said he don't have a compatible phone service. which is true & expected as he has an LLU phone: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4362770-r...

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 12-Oct-14 19:09:26)

I'm a bit tired so won't make suggestions at the moment, but I'm posting to point out that if you do manage to sort out a way to move to TalkTalk, then you are likely to have the same problem if and when you want to leave TalkTalk.

To explain - what the helpful Vodafone person missed out was that there are two flavours of MPF. (Which stands for Metallic Path Facility - basically the use of the copper wires!). MPF and SMPF.

For all practical purposes "MPF" means both the phone and broadband are completely handled by LLU equipment. That will normally belong to Vodafone, TalkTalk or Sky.

"SMPF", (Shared Metallic Path Facility), in general means the phone service is provided through Openreach Wholesale Line Rental, (WLR), but the broadband can be with any ISP - BT Wholesale based or LLU. The confusing bit here is that (so far as I know) when you have both your phone and broadband with a BT Wholesale broadband supplier, (e.g. BT Retail, Plusnet, IDNet, etc.), it is still SMPF - shared between Openreach WLR and BT Wholesale broadband.

Vodafone use SMPF outside their LLU area, MPF within it. Sky and TalkTalk basically no longer offer SMPF except in rare circumstances. TalkTalk would be (Full) MPF and leaving them could give the same problem.

Sorry to be a prophet of doom .

What PlusNet said was:

You don't have a compatible phone service. To use our broadband you'll need to take one of our Home Phone packages - we'll give you free activation worth £25.

To be honest, talking to them didn't really inspire confidence in me and I think it has been suggested that there might be issues / delays migrating to them anyhow.

It isn't compatible because it is LLU. If it was with BT, like mine is, possibly Zen, or IDNet, or one of hundred or so others, then it would be compatible.

They are saying you would have to take Plusnet Home Phone so they could move it from (Vodafone) MPF to Plusnet SMPF. Moving the phone to one company and the broadband to another from where you are is out of the question.

Would Plusnet port the number?

Yes, you don't have a compatible phone service cuz your landline is LLU'ed with Vodafone. Any ISP would have said the same. That doesn't mean you have to change you no., just that you need to take out a new phone service.

That is also why when you put you no. in the BTw Checker it does not recognise it. There is a disconnect between the 'range holder' database and the BTw BB database.

There are always issues/delays moving from Full LLU (MPF). That's not PN not being helpful, but them being realistic.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 12-Oct-14 22:53:37)