what constitute "turning off a device" on an aircraft ?

I have been recently on an aircraft, and on taking off I put my device on flight mode. However somebody sitting next to me said that is not enough. It ought to be " off" completly which is equivalent to shut down on a computer. I am not sure how you can do that on a mobile phone, other than putting it in flight mode. Any ideas on this subject. In fact I was told to turn off my kindle ebook. I cannot sea how an ebook can disturb an aircraft.

I would certainly turn off the wireless side of an e-book reader. Should be sufficient.

If Nokia, Apple, whatever, were selling phones with their "Aircraft mode" feature yet when turned on still caused problems with aircraft I think we would have heard about it by now.

It sounds like the passenger you were sitting next to was just being a busybody.

I guess what they probably meant was put it in flight mode then power it down totally and/or remove battery, as opposed to put it in flight mode and play angry birds, or whatever.

It's a bit like the mobile phones at petrol stations thing isn't it.

It ought to be " off" completly which is equivalent to shut down on a computer. I am not sure how you can do that on a mobile phone,

Err, turn the whole thing off, as in switch off.

As long as your device was in "Flight Mode" then it should be fine.

The somebody who was sitting next to you was just being a busybody as Pipexer mentioned.

That's why Flight Mode present on most modern portable devices - It disables all of its communication technologies (3g .etc) and its WiFi capability so it doesn't interfere with Aircraft equipment.

As long as it is in this mode, it won't make a difference whether if it's on or off because it doesn't have the ability to transmit or receive any data or cause a disturbance to anything on the aircraft (Apart from maybe certain people who get over-worried about such things and don't know how they work).

If it was such a bad thing, then I'm sure we would have seen numerous articles over the internet every day regarding such an issue.

I regularly travel on FlyBe and this is part of their take off announcement. You are supposed to put the device into flight mode and then turn the device off before take off. When the seat belts sign goes off, you can then turn the device on obviously still in flight mode. This strikes me as ridiculous.

To be fair to the airlines the taking off is not being "in flight" so you can see why different rules apply.

One day, during a short delay waiting for take off, the pilot said that he had been a passenger on a earlier flight and he had sat up the back. He said he was shocked at how many people simply ignored the announcement and kept their devices on. He was quite insistent that the rules should be followed.

Have had the same on most flights I have been on this year. Turn to flight mode, then physically off for takeoff and landings.

I've had different experiences based on the airline.

Last year I went to America on Virgin Atlantic. "Airplane mode" was not sufficient and they wanted the devices completely off.

Thomas Cook a week ago to Spain were quite happen with that mode and didn't require the devices completely off.

Possibly just a misunderstanding, or that some airlines just want to be safer than sorry, and remove any possibility of the mode not being correctly applied.

Matt

I would tend to agree that! Provided your mobile or whatever the device such as Tablet/even gaming devices are configured in such a mode that it will be inhibited to transmit enough R.F power, e.g. WiFi, *G data and normal calls communications, in response to either any incoming calls, your internet accesses and spurious R.F signals received such as your flight navigation signals etc in order not to interfere with your flight navigations at ANY states of the flight, then that particular device mode should be set during your flight. As for whether the "Flight-Mode" would achieve that, this is up to individual device manufacturers to clarify, but in most cases, the "flight-mode" would probably achieve this!

Edited by deleted (Sat 29-Sep-12 09:41:24)

Could you rephrase that middle sentence so that it is readable and unambigous please?

O.K! When you are on boarded any flights, in order not to interfere with the flight electronics, particularly its navigation electronics/signals etc, the airline concerned usually has to ensure that their passengers have to temporarily set their communication devices (e.g. mobile phones, smartphones, smart tablets supporting WiFi and/or internet accesses) in such a mode that it WILL NOT transmit any R.F signals during that flight such as answering/setting up any calls/internet accesses. The so called "Flight-mode" configuration is supposed to do that without switching off your communication devices completely, i.e. your'e "off-air" but can still play games/general processing working without enabling your Calls/Internet Accesses functions. However whether such a Flight-Mode can universally(i.e any brands/manufacturers) be meeting the above requirements I just don't know!!
So don't hold me on that!

Edited by deleted (Sun 30-Sep-12 10:03:15)

On a September flight with FlyBe, we were told "please put your mobiles into flight mode, or if your phone doesn't have flight mode then please switch it off altogether during take off and landing."

2 different issues here: In-flight and take off or landing.
The in-flight issue is primarily concerned with interference with aircraft radio systems, as other posters have already said.

However, flight crew ask for all electronic devices to be switched off during take-off and landing phases so that they can expect everyone's immediate and full attention if an emergency develops. Inattention during an emergency evac can easily turn a crisis into a disaster. I'm fairly certain that international regulations require this and not the individual airline or country, and yes, I know we've all seen or heard exceptions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJ0v4UMxR0

I'm just repeating what I was told last month.

Thanks

Can you actually understand what the woman is saying on the YouTube clip?

Edited by wingco1 (Mon 01-Oct-12 20:04:38)

If turning a device off was so important they wouldnt allow them in the cabin and risk people not doing it

As flippant as that is - you're right. If there was a remote risk that some idiot switching his phone on could cause serious problems, then people would be reminded, double reminded, and checked for said devices.

That's not to say though that just because the probability is low that the airline is doing any wrong by further reducing the risk.

I can recite it backwards

My brother in law is a commercial pilot, the reason why airlines want the things off and put away during take off and landings is that is the most dangerous time for a plane as most accidents happen then and they want people ready to recieve instructions if an emergency happens.

The whole interfere with electronics is just an excuse rather than a reason.

OFF means OFF, completely off, not standby. On a PC, hibernate is fine as that is off with the last state stored, whereas standby turns off the screen and drives, reduces teh CPU speed but keeps the memory active.

Any electronic device has the potential to disrupt aircraft systems, be it an ebook, PC, phone, portable radio ... There are RF emissions from every devices - normally quite low but still have the potential and if a component has failed the device may still operate but cause even greater problems.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

My brother in law is a commercial pilot, the reason why airlines want the things off and put away during take off and landings is that is the most dangerous time for a plane as most accidents happen then and they want people ready to recieve instructions if an emergency happens.

The whole interfere with electronics is just an excuse rather than a reason.

No, the interference with key systems at a critical time IS a reason not an excuse.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

My brother in law is a commercial pilot, the reason why airlines want the things off and put away during take off and landings is that is the most dangerous time for a plane as most accidents happen then and they want people ready to recieve instructions if an emergency happens.

The whole interfere with electronics is just an excuse rather than a reason.

A friend who is in the top ten most senior British Airways pilots says that mobile phones seeking cells can interfere with the cabin pressurization valves on certain Boeing 747s and he had experienced this first hand. It's not the case that there is no interference with avionics from consumer electronic devices.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

My brother in law is a commercial pilot, the reason why airlines want the things off and put away during take off and landings is that is the most dangerous time for a plane as most accidents happen then and they want people ready to recieve instructions if an emergency happens.

The whole interfere with electronics is just an excuse rather than a reason.

No, the interference with key systems at a critical time IS a reason not an excuse.

So why do almost all consumer electronic devices these days only operate with sofware opearted off modes, which in most cases only put them into a light hibernation.

Large amounts of these devices can't even have their batteries removed as they are all sealed in.

Also if a kindle or mp4 player has the potential to affect a plane whay hasn't the CAA/FAA etc demanded that Boeing and Airbus do something about it. rather than just put a "do not use during take off and landing"

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Also if a kindle or mp4 player has the potential to affect a plane whay hasn't the CAA/FAA etc demanded that Boeing and Airbus do something about it. rather than just put a "do not use during take off and landing"

Turning an electronic item off during takeoff and landing costs nothing. Changing avionics costs......?

Additionally, the electronics on airliners are much older and take far longer to upgrade and clear testing and approval hurdles.

The answer is that you should follow the crew's instructions regarding use of electronic items on board, Mr/Mrs/Ms Anonymous.

If you don't like the rules, don't fly.

Simples.

What about my digital watch? It's an electronic device and doesn't have an off button.

Do tablets, phones etc with Wifi etc actually interfere with flight electronics nowadays, or is it just another an excuse for airlines to get people to use their own internal systems (and hence have to pay) - much like the commonly-held belief that turning on a mobile phone in a petrol station can cause an explosion could be a myth, researchers have said.

The answer is yes they do.

On a flight back in 2010(/), I was on the flight deck of an A340 coming into land and we were maybe 200 feet off the runway when the pilots hit the go-around button. The reason was that a mobile phone (which turned out to belong to a member of the crew) caused interference on the VHF audio circuits meaning that ATC instructions were missed. On a B747 passengers are immediately above the avionics bay and their phones could cause a similar problem. I have also seen unmanaged WiFi cause interference on aircraft.

Also, a mobile phone at 10,000 feet can see many Base Stations, several of which will be using the same frequencies and whilst logged on to one base station the phone - which will have ramped up to maximum power will cause interference on several other base stations - and that causes teh mobile operators problems.

In reply to a post by MHC:

OFF means OFF, completely off, not standby. On a PC, hibernate is fine as that is off with the last state stored, whereas standby turns off the screen and drives, reduces teh CPU speed but keeps the memory active.

Any electronic device has the potential to disrupt aircraft systems, be it an ebook, PC, phone, portable radio ... There are RF emissions from every devices - normally quite low but still have the potential and if a component has failed the device may still operate but cause even greater problems.

I hope you turn your mobile off every time you visit a petrol station

"What about my digital watch? It's an electronic device and doesn't have an off button."

Non-Bond digital watches don't have several watts worth of RF transmitter, so it's almost infinitely improbable that there'll be any trouble from an ordinary digital watch.

Also, modern digital watches intentionally have very low power electronics in them so that the batteries can be small and low powered and still last a bit longer than they did in the days of (eg) Mr Sinclair's Black Watch.

Lots of modern consumer electronics does have a watt or twos worth of RF transmitter, powered by quite chunky batteries The flight crew are not experts in what does and what does not have an inbuilt transmitter, so to make life simple the request (rule?) is "switch it off" at times when there is least wiggle room (takeoff and landing).

The chances of a problem occurring as a result of something being accidentally or deliberately left on are small but not zero. The more such devices that are on, the greater the risk of Bad Things happening.

Please, if you wish to play Russian Roulette, do it when and where it affects your life only. Otherwise, switch it off. Thank you.