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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-16 09:23:47
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Secure boot


[link to this post]
 
Not really an issue just a surprise. I have not really looked at the bios or UEFI of my computer for a while, I did update it last year, but did not take much notice of it apart.
I was having a root in there yesterday as I have been having a problem and thought maybe something in the settings have changed and noticed Secure boot. I know it was not in there before, so it must have been added on the update. I did not think it could be added and was built into the hardware, but it seems like I was wrong.

I have no reason to switch it on, just surprised it was there.

i still did not sort my problem out, may be a restore from my backup is needed.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 06-Jan-16 16:11:53
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/17058-secure-bo...

Warning
Arm based Windows RT PCs and devices will have a locked boot loader, so you will not be able to disabled secure boot on them.

If you have a Windows 8.1 device that has the device encryption feature turned on and disable secure boot, then you may not be able to access the data on the disk until you enable secure boot again.

Do not enable secure boot with Windows 7, Vista, or XP installed. If you do, these OSs will not boot until secure boot is disabled.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 06-Jan-16 18:02:36
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Re: Secure boot


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
thanks, but I know what secure boot is, it is Microsoft's way to try and stop people using other operating systems, under the pretence of them keeping us safe.

Worse now with Windows 10 devices as at least with Windows 8 devices Ms said that hardware must be able to switch to turn secure boot off, only because the Linux crowd complained. But with Windows 10 devices MS have dropped that requirement.

So if I other buy another laptop I will have to look very carefully, it should be ok with motherboards.

Adrian

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Standard User micksharpe
(legend) Wed 06-Jan-16 20:11:32
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
I know what secure boot is, it is Microsoft's the NSA's way to try and stop people using other operating systems, under the pretence of them keeping us safe.
Allow me to correct that for you. Microsoft has become the US government's poodle.

Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him. -- Groucho Marx
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 06-Jan-16 21:50:44
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Re: Secure boot


[re: micksharpe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by micksharpe:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
I know what secure boot is, it is Microsoft's the NSA's way to try and stop people using other operating systems, under the pretence of them keeping us safe.
Allow me to correct that for you. Microsoft has become the US government's poodle.


LOL

Adrian

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Thu 07-Jan-16 00:18:21
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
It's not like unix-based OS require masses of hardware anyway.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Jan-16 09:07:05
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Re: Secure boot


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by camieabz:
It's not like unix-based OS require masses of hardware anyway.


The problem was and still is for some Linux distros is that they would not work on machines with secure boot.
Ubuntu will now and a few others, but mint won't

Adrian

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Standard User nemeth782
(member) Thu 07-Jan-16 14:53:49
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
It's not like unix-based OS require masses of hardware anyway.


The problem was and still is for some Linux distros is that they would not work on machines with secure boot.
Ubuntu will now and a few others, but mint won't


With secure boot enabled. Secure boot itself is a good thing, and every PC lets you turn it off if you want to run linux distros that are not signed.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 07-Jan-16 15:05:52
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Re: Secure boot


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
I haven't seen a laptop (Intel) yet where you can't disable secure boot. And, if such a beast exists and you want to install Linux, you'd be pretty foolish to buy it. It would be like buying an iPhone and then complaining that it wouldn't run Windows.

It will always be possible to buy laptops that come with no operating system installed and are designed to be used with any OS.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Jan-16 19:41:02
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I haven't seen a laptop (Intel) yet where you can't disable secure boot. And, if such a beast exists and you want to install Linux, you'd be pretty foolish to buy it. It would be like buying an iPhone and then complaining that it wouldn't run Windows.

It will always be possible to buy laptops that come with no operating system installed and are designed to be used with any OS.


The reason why you have not seen a laptop without being able to turn Secure boot off is because MS would not allow it and be marked as made for Windows 8.1, but with Windows 10 they will allow it we could see machines that will not allow secure boot to be switched off.

I wish you would stop trying to compare a computer with a phone, it is not the same thing.
As for buying a laptop without a OS they are normally more expensive for some silly reason, I suppose that what you get when you have a monopoly.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 07-Jan-16 19:42:15
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Re: Secure boot


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
With secure boot enabled. Secure boot itself is a good thing, and every PC lets you turn it off if you want to run linux distros that are not signed.


At the moment, but that is because MS made it a condition of Windows 8 machines, they are now dropping that condition.
Typical monopoly company, as bad as Sky and Intel.

Adrian

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 07-Jan-16 20:41:08
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
A monopoly would be Microsoft telling the hardware manufacturers what to do. You are complaining because they are not telling them what to do!
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 07-Jan-16 20:46:36
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
I wish you would stop trying to compare a computer with a phone, it is not the same thing.

As for buying a laptop without a OS they are normally more expensive for some silly reason, I suppose that what you get when you have a monopoly.
I think you're a bit out of touch. Phones are computers nowadays.

As for the cost of laptops, you're buying from the wrong place. I get them cheaper without an OS; but I don't buy rubbish from the likes of HP.

It really does seem unfair to blame Microsoft for what the hardware manufacturers choose to do.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Jan-16 08:30:05
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
A monopoly would be Microsoft telling the hardware manufacturers what to do. You are complaining because they are not telling them what to do!


A lot of the time they do, the only way a hardware manufacture can stick the Microsoft name on the box or computer is because they have to follow Ms rules.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Jan-16 08:36:53
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I think you're a bit out of touch. Phones are computers nowadays.


Maybe so, but try doing a lot of the stuff on a phone you can do on a laptop and desktop computer.
As for the cost of laptops, you're buying from the wrong place. I get them cheaper without an OS; but I don't buy rubbish from the likes of HP.


My laptop is old, so I have not been buying any laptops for years, my last one is a Asus, that was before all this Secure boot rubbish came out, it have the good old Bios in it, not that I use it that often and it is running Manjaro not windows.

I did see a few places that sell laptop without a Os, but they was more expensive than the equivalent with a OS.
It really does seem unfair to blame Microsoft for what the hardware manufacturers choose to do.


Oh poor Microsoft, how will they cope being blamed for something, they should have got used to it by now, because most problems with computers is caused by Microsoft.

You be surprised how much influence MS have in hardware manufacture.

Adrian

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 09-Jan-16 08:47:59
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
But your specific complaint here is that Microsoft are leaving hardware manufacturers to decide for themselves whether to allow secure boot to be switched off. If a manufacturer decides not to do so that is their decision, not something forced upon them by Microsoft; you should avoid buying products from such a manufacturer.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 09-Jan-16 08:50:30
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Oh poor Microsoft, how will they cope being blamed for something, they should have got used to it by now
I'm sure that Microsoft are used to the FUD that is aimed against them by now. It doesn't seem to stop them being a very successful company.

I really don't understand why people who are so dissatisfied with them continue to use their products.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Jan-16 16:59:14
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
But your specific complaint here is that Microsoft are leaving hardware manufacturers to decide for themselves whether to allow secure boot to be switched off. If a manufacturer decides not to do so that is their decision, not something forced upon them by Microsoft; you should avoid buying products from such a manufacturer.

A lot of t6he time it is Microsoft that pulls the strings, but some people have got their head so far up Microsofts backside that they can not see it.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 09-Jan-16 17:13:35
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I'm sure that Microsoft are used to the FUD that is aimed against them by now. It doesn't seem to stop them being a very successful company.

I really don't understand why people who are so dissatisfied with them continue to use their products.


Successful maybe, but also one not to be trusted and it is about time the world saw sense and look at what Ms can do. Get companies and governments to use the software and then change the rules an d what can these companies and government do but to follow the rules. It is not as if they can change over night to another Os, because to be honest what else is available?
Linux/unix is there yes, but apart from maybe servers it is not really used elsewhere and the software is not available anyway.
Apple would be no different to Microsoft if they have the monopoly either.
People have very little choice now but to use MS software, myself included.

The reason MS got to where they are is because they was in the right place at the right time and gave people the ease to use computers, not because their software is any good.


We have the same problem in this country with Sky, a monopoly that seems to do what they want and now look at what we got. But Sky having a monopoly is not dangerous, people just can't watch what they like unless they pay for it, that is not going to bring the country or the world to a standstill. But Microsoft can, give it time and we will be paying through the nose for their software, already their office software have gone subscription.

I trust MS as much as I trust Intel, Adobe, our government and U.S government.
One day the world will wake up

Adrian

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 09-Jan-16 18:33:34
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I'm talking about your specific complaint here rather than what happens "a lot of the time".
Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 09-Jan-16 18:37:36
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Successful maybe, but also one not to be trusted and it is about time the world saw sense and look at what Ms can do.
It strikes me that it's about time that people who feel the way you do stopped supporting Microsoft by using their products.
Standard User neo_wales
(newbie) Sun 10-Jan-16 00:47:21
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by micksharpe:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
I know what secure boot is, it is Microsoft's the NSA's way to try and stop people using other operating systems, under the pretence of them keeping us safe.
Allow me to correct that for you. Microsoft has become the US government's poodle.


LOL


Can you expand on that sweeping statement, provide some links et al ?

Robert
South Wales UK
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Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:27:26
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Re: Secure boot


[re: neo_wales] [link to this post]
 
This perhaps: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-as...

Oops! Wrong OS!
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:34:09
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
I'm talking about your specific complaint here rather than what happens "a lot of the time".



My complaint is the of many people, maybe not your average joe as all they do is buy a computer and just use it to do there browsing, saying that most people are now using tablets.

Saying that I was surprised last week by someone who I thought just buy computers and not bother much about anything as long as they work. We was talking about updating and I asked if he updated to Windows 10 yet and he came back and said nope as he is a bit bothered about their spying. Before you say it I never said anything to him about it.

Very few people will care or know what secure boot is.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:37:15
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
It strikes me that it's about time that people who feel the way you do stopped supporting Microsoft by using their products.


You make it sound so easy, this is the problem with a monopoly in that it is difficult to find a product from another supplier, manufacture to do the job.
Tell me where i could get another Os to do what I want?
Linux is all fine for browsing and writing a letter and for a few other things,k but sadly the software is not really there for most things and Apple OSx is fine apart from, the fact it will only work on Apple products and they are over priced.

So take the blinkers off your pro-Microsoft eyes

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:37:59
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Julian Assange is a nut case.

Adrian

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Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:52:56
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Worse now with Windows 10 devices as at least with Windows 8 devices Ms said that hardware must be able to switch to turn secure boot off, only because the Linux crowd complained. But with Windows 10 devices MS have dropped that requirement.
My mistake. I took your statement as a complaint that Microsoft were no longer requiring hardware manufacturers to ensure that secure boot could be switched off.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:55:22
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
So you are saying that Microsoft produce the best software for your purposes? That's fair enough.

I'm not the pro-Microsoft one; I use several different OSs.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 10-Jan-16 09:56:33
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Re: Secure boot


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
So you don't think that the NSA had anything to do with the development of SE Linux?
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 13:55:08
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
Worse now with Windows 10 devices as at least with Windows 8 devices Ms said that hardware must be able to switch to turn secure boot off, only because the Linux crowd complained. But with Windows 10 devices MS have dropped that requirement.
My mistake. I took your statement as a complaint that Microsoft were no longer requiring hardware manufacturers to ensure that secure boot could be switched off.


MS said that with Windows 8.1 all devices must be able to have a way to turn secure boot on or off, with Windows 10 they have dropped that requirement. So this now means that hardware manufacture will now be able to produce hardware with no way to switch secure boot off and MS knows full well that what will happen.
If MS requirement was that there is no switch for secure boot there would be hell to play, so instead they get around it another way.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 14:00:51
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
So you are saying that Microsoft produce the best software for your purposes? That's fair enough.


There is any Os that would do what I want to do and the software available for it is better than what is on Windows, but it is above the price I am willing to pay and also I complain enough about Windows and secure boot as it is, so I would certainly not buy a system which is even more locked down, which is the Apple Mac.

i know years ago we did do things that way, the old 8 bits would have their own Operating system, if you can call it that, 16 bit machines like the Amiga had Amiga dos, but things was different then.

If i buy a microsoft computer then I expect it to be locked toi Windows, but if I buy a Acer, I expect to put what ever OS I want on it since it is not a Microsoft built machine, so Microsoft should have no say.

.
I'm not the pro-Microsoft one; I use several different OSs.


Don't mean you are not pro-Microsoft, I know someone who is pro-Apple and yet she still use other operating systems.

Adrian

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 10-Jan-16 14:02:04
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Re: Secure boot


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
So you don't think that the NSA had anything to do with the development of SE Linux?


No doubt and I also think they have back doors in Windows and OS X and no doubt Android and IOS. I would not be surprised if our own spy agencies don't either.

Adrian

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