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Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 16-Dec-20 13:03:23
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Replacement GPU advice please


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Hi all,

I was recently gifted a Dell XPS 8300 i7 2600 12Gb RAM/240SSD/1Tb HD base unit, with a GTX560Ti GPU in it, but although I don't game much (the occasional game of ETS2/ATS), I've noticed that the GPU loses synch with my monitor (Dell P2219H), whether using HDMI or Display Port, when the GPU's under load.
Although this is very intermittent at the moment, I do think that sooner or later, the GPU will fail totally, so I'm looking into alternatives.

I understand that the machine is 9 years old (1st Gen core i7), but it runs perfectly well, aside from the GPU issues.

I'm looking at perhaps a GT1030 2Gb card - Would this be enough of an upgrade to run the games above, or can you suggest something else?

Thanks in advance. smile

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-20 15:18:59
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
A GT1030 would be a downgrade:

Bench Comparison 1

Bench Comparison 2


However, if unwilling to consider other, more expensive options, the power draw of the 560 Ti is such, that a GT1030 is attractive, especially if this power draw is the cause of these issues when under load (no way to say, I'm just speculating). At 170w of potential power draw of the 560Ti, vs 30w for the 1030, or 75w for the suggestions below, it's something to keep in mind.

I recommend a GTX 1050, if you can find one, or a GTX 1050Ti, if your budget is inclined. You possibly won't get the full potential from the latter, as your CPU will struggle to keep up, but the former will probably be maximised.

New Comparison 1

New Comparison 2


Edit: All the cards, including your current card are more than enough for the games you mention.

Edited by camieabz (Wed 16-Dec-20 15:19:41)

Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 16-Dec-20 15:44:32
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your response, Camie. smile

I mistakenly thought that the GT1030 would be an upgrade, not a downgrade - 2Gb vs ~1.2Gb, plus it was released later. Go figure. lol.

I'm also thinking the PSU (850W Corsair) might have a part to play?
Although usually, when the GPU hangs, I just lose my connection to the monitor (currently DP, but this has also happened over HDMI), it has, on occasion, caused the machine to restart.

I think, what I'll do, as a first step, is go back to basics; check everything's seated/connected securely, then try to troubleshoot the issue from there.
I don't want to replace the GPU, only to find that it wasn't at fault and that it was the PSU, for example.

Again, thanks for your comment and insights. Food for thought, especially the comparisons you linked. smile

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Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-20 15:49:53
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
The last 2 digits are key - so a 560 is a much higher card in the range than a 1030 would be. Now later generations may mean that lower cards in a later generation outperform higher cards in an earlier generation but that depends on how many generations different they are.
Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 16-Dec-20 16:05:35
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for clarifying that it's the last two digits, ian. smile
I mistakenly thought that it was the first digit, therefore, by my (flawed) logic, 10x > 5x.

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-20 17:27:30
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Basenji:
I'm also thinking the PSU (850W Corsair) might have a part to play?
Although usually, when the GPU hangs, I just lose my connection to the monitor (currently DP, but this has also happened over HDMI), it has, on occasion, caused the machine to restart.

I think, what I'll do, as a first step, is go back to basics; check everything's seated/connected securely, then try to troubleshoot the issue from there.
I don't want to replace the GPU, only to find that it wasn't at fault and that it was the PSU, for example.


Yes, it's definitely something to consider. The connections might be an idea. Wiggle a few cables. I'd look at doing some benchmarks too (Userbenchmark, Passmark etc are a good start). No need for those stress testing benchmarks, but just something that will max out your CPU and GPU for a few seconds. Also keep an eye on the temps of said components. It's not unheard of for hot kit to throttle down and hang a little.

Also suggest HW Monitor from CPUID. It's handy for seeing into the temps / voltages / systems speeds.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-20 11:53:38
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
The first one or two digits is the "generation" of the card - the higher it is the later the card. The last 2 digits is the position of the card in the range - higher the number the more powerful the card. Then you have the additional bits that come after like TI, GTX, Super, etc - these are all variations on the base card. You also get some cards that are overclocked out of the box from some suppliers. Higher RAM may be good but depends on the application - older games might not make any use out of extra RAM. Then you have all the stuff around shaders, etc but again an older game might make no use out of the additional features.

In the end I normally just look at one of the benchmark websites to compare cards to see which are "better".
Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 21-Dec-20 16:05:46
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Hi again Camie,

As suggested, I took a look "under the hood" and all of the wires/connections were firm.

As I said before, I'm thinking it could be the PSU.
I've copied the voltages from HWMonitor's text file and pasted them below.
Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
Hardware Monitors
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Hardware monitor                ITE IT8772        Voltage 0               0.98 Volts [0x52] (CPU VCORE)
        Voltage 1               1.51 Volts [0x7E] (VIN1)        Voltage 2               2.82 Volts [0xEB] (+3.3V)
        Voltage 3               2.82 Volts [0x8C] (+5V)        Voltage 4               11.14 Volts [0xE8] (+12V)
        Voltage 5               -8.88 Volts [0xB9] (-12V)        Voltage 6               -8.88 Volts [0xB9] (-5V)
        Voltage 7               2.78 Volts [0x8A] (+5V VCCH)        Voltage 8               1.57 Volts [0x83] (VBAT)
        Temperature 1           27 degC (80 degF) [0x1B] (TMPIN1)        Fan 1                   910 RPM [0x2E6] (FANIN1)
        Fan 2                   899 RPM [0x2EF] (FANIN2)        Fan PWM 0               0 pc [0x0] (FANPWM0)
        Fan PWM 1               0 pc [0x0] (FANPWM1)        Fan PWM 2               0 pc [0x0] (FANPWM2)

Do these look right to you, considering it's a 850W?

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 21-Dec-20 17:41:43
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
Ok. It's not my forte, but I'll give what info I can (i.e. what I think might be up). First up, many of these voltages are not within expected tolerances. However, there's a chance it's the software reporting that's the problem, rather than the hardware. The reason I say this, is that all these voltages had such real values, I doubt your PC would work too well.

So the best option is to get a PSU tester, but almost no one bothers with that. The next best option is to read the voltages from the BIOS. The next best option is HWMonitor. If trying HWMonitor, I recommend you max out the system with prolonged benchmarking / gaming to get values under load. The BIOS won't achieve this, but if you get odd PSU voltages idling in BIOS, that would suggest a PSU issue.

So let's paste your voltage table, with my additions for tolerances, per this link (and my general knowledge). Green is within tolerance; red is not:

https://www.lifewire.com/power-supply-voltage-tolera...

In reply to a post by Basenji:
Voltage 0 0.98 Volts [0x52] (CPU VCORE) 1.25v is stock voltage as far as I know. This is way off.
Voltage 1 1.51 Volts [0x7E] (VIN1)
Voltage 2 2.82 Volts [0xEB] (+3.3V) +/- 5% = 3.135v - 3.465
Voltage 3 2.82 Volts [0x8C] (+5V) +/- 5% = 4.75v - 5.25v
Voltage 4 11.14 Volts [0xE8] (+12V) +/- 5% = 11.4v - 12.6v
Voltage 5 -8.88 Volts [0xB9] (-12V)
Voltage 6 -8.88 Volts [0xB9] (-5V)
Voltage 7 2.78 Volts [0x8A] (+5V VCCH)
Voltage 8 1.57 Volts [0x83] (VBAT)


The others are less important, and at this point I'm almost certain that HWMonitor is talking [censored]. Your system shouldn't start on those voltages, imo. Check in the BIOS instead.

Edit: No green text. I was going to populate the others, but frankly, those four are the main ones to be worried about for starters.

Edited by camieabz (Mon 21-Dec-20 17:43:43)

Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 21-Dec-20 19:46:48
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
Thanks again, Camie smile

I'll take a look in the BIOs as suggested, but I think it's time to look at a new PSU to be fair.

The current PSU is a Corsair TX850W. What rating would you suggest as a replacement? Do I need to go as high as 850W, considering afaik the original Dell PSU was a 450W?

Many thanks.

EDIT: I've just run Speccy and it gives the same values as HWMonitor. I'll check BIOS when I get a minute.
Text
1
23
45
67
8
CPU CORE        0.972 V
MEMORY CONTROLLER       1.512 V+3.3V   2.820 V
+5V     2.802 V+12V    11.136 V
-12V    -8.880 V-5V     -8.880 V
+5V HIGH THRESHOLD      2.782 V


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Edited by Basenji (Mon 21-Dec-20 19:55:43)

Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 21-Dec-20 20:22:52
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
Well it depends on what you have on the system, and what you plan to have.

Your CPU has a TDP of 95w, and the 560Ti has TDP of 210w, so that's 305w right there. Add in the mobo, two sticks of RAM, an SSD, an HDD and a third party cooler, and we're at 433w.

My own way of doing it is to get a PSU rated at 1.5x of the specced kit, to allow for headroom of efficiency, and potential future additions, which comes to 650w. Now bear in mind this is overhead to point of unnecessary, based on theoretical maximum power draw, but at least it stops at 650w. smile

However, if you're looking to move to another GPU at say 75w, 450w would be adequate. If staying with the 560Ti, I'd recommend 550w to 650w. I think I opted for a 750w on the basis that it was an extra tenner over the 650w, so why not. wink


Then there's the modular, semi-modular, non-modular aspect, which is really paying for less cables that aren't in use. That's up to you. If you want fully modular, you're talking £80-£120 realistically. If semi, then £60-£90. Poor cable management causes airflow issues, which creates more heat etc.

Then there's the 80+ ratings. I prefer Bronze as a minimum level of quality, but for any premium kit, I'd recommend gold or better.

Lastly, consider the warranty of any given model. Some are pretty good. I'd make sure the one you get is at least 5 years. You'll probably have to visit the specific site to find out the warranty. My PSU has 10 years.

Here's a good list of the different tiers to consider too (this separates models; not brands) - https://linustechtips.com/topic/1116640-psucultists-...

Here's a list of some PSUs that are lowish spec up to as much as you'll need. Selected brands and vendors, so play with the options - Linky

If you can, get a spec of your system built into the PC partpicker's system builder, so you can get an idea of the maximum wattages likely. Use a program like Speccy, or try the Userbenchmark to get the spec.

For the record, my cheap n cheerful browsing PC has a 430w Corsair CXM Bronze (semi) from 2015. It's ok, but the fan is a bit Meh. The gaming rig has a Seasonic 750 Focus Plus Gold (fully modular). It works. Zero complaints so far.
Standard User Basenji
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 21-Dec-20 23:08:49
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
I've just gone into the BIOS, but it was extremely basic, showing no mention of voltages, whatsoever.

Here's what I'm thinking: I'm definitely going to be replacing the PSU, as previously mentioned, but, for now, I'll be keeping the 560Ti in place, with a view to upgrading as/when.

Current setup would be 1x case fan (might be more, but I doubt it, being a Dell. lol), 4 sticks of RAM (2x4+2x2) in dual channel mode (soon to be upgraded to 2x4+2x4), Optical drive (BR), Mobo, CPU, 1xSSD, 1xHD (will be adding another SSD later, but will likely just straight swap with the HD) - Would the 650W still be sufficient (allowing for your 1.5x overhead), considering the info I've now added?

Also, what aftermarket CPU cooler would you recommend? It's a 1155 board, but the stock cooler from Dell has some mahoosive securing pins, akin to a 3" knitting needle with a philips head? I thought the Intel stock coolers had the little black push/twist pins? Am thinking that I may as well replace the cooler, while I'm doing the PSU.
The fitting was similar/the same as the one shown here

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Edited by Basenji (Mon 21-Dec-20 23:16:59)

Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 21-Dec-20 23:47:12
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
Cooler? Each to their own. The CoolerMaster AIO water cooling with 120mm rads are good fun. Anything from Noctua generally can't go wrong, but some are bulky, so you'll need to assess the space around the CPU socket for potential issues.

The PCpartpicker site has a compatibility tickbox (usually enabled), so if you add your CPU and mobo to a 'build', then go looking for coolers, obviously filtering out the zero priced ones, you'll see what's on offer for your build. I'd guess there would be a lot to pick from.

General brands worth considering:

Noctua
CoolerMaster
NZXT
Corsair
Be Quiet!
Cryorig

I wouldn't throw money at this if what's there works. You might get as much from putting on fresh thermal paste than a new cooler. However, if it was me, and I really wanted a new cooler, I'd probably opt for one of the following options:

AIO Water Cooler - Corsair H60 (2018) AIO Liquid Cooler

Standard Cooler - Cryorig H7

Low Profile Cooler - Noctua NH-L9i

The latter might not be an improvement cooling-wise on the stock cooler, but might be an option if requiring a lower profile option. The former will probably be the coolest option, but might be overkill for the CPU. The standard cooler (or a Noctua of a similar) variety would be fine. Like I say, unless there's a temp or noise issue, why change? A wee blob of high quality thermal paste can go a long way.
Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Mon 21-Dec-20 23:49:31
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Re: Replacement GPU advice please


[re: Basenji] [link to this post]
 
Oh, and the 650w is fine. It's 1.5x to take the efficiency from 100% load to 66% load, which is a sweeter place for PSUs to run, but that's assuming your rig even gets to 66% of 650w (433w). Each SSD, HDD, fan, and stick of RAM probably adds 5-10w each. Nothing to worry about, as long as you factor in the CPU and GPU, or unless you have 10x fans and 10x HDDs. wink
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