Complaint about CGN

Hi all, unfortunately I've just been 'upgraded' to their CGN recently. Clearly they have a different definition of static IP address than the others and they just wanted to charge us ¡�5/month for a public IP. Is there any where I can send the complaint to other than themselves? I'm on 1Gig package by the way.

Where are you based in the country? London, or elsewhere?

Also, while you're on the CGNAT, how does the connection perform; are there any speed differences or other differences that you can see?

Hello KuriyamaMirai,

So sorry to hear that you're disappointed with the fact that we're migrating subscribers from the public static IPs to CGN. This is being done as an interim solution before the IPv6 roll out in the first half od 2017, and all because of the exhaustion of IPv4 on a global level. We are aware that this is affecting some of the customers, therefore we're offering a public static IP at a fee.

If you'd want to raise the issue to discuss could you please forward your concerns to [email protected] and our Support Team will be on it.

Well, I've just been moved to CGNat, despite having spoken to an agent last week who assured me that I could be moved directly to a static IP when the time came for the CGNat move.

If they had said "No, you'll be on CGNat for a while, sorry", then I could have made a plan to keep remote access to my server at home, but being told I would be moved directly to a static IP and for this to then not happen was pretty poor.

Considering blocks of IPv4 can still be purchased from companies selling their spare allocations, and the going rate is typically $10 per IPv4 address, being charged £5 recurring per month is pretty sneaky. Especially since I can get a VPS with a static IP for about that much...

In reply to a post by Hyperoptic_CS:

Hello KuriyamaMirai,

So sorry to hear that you're disappointed with the fact that we're migrating subscribers from the public static IPs to CGN. This is being done as an interim solution before the IPv6 roll out in the first half od 2017, and all because of the exhaustion of IPv4 on a global level. We are aware that this is affecting some of the customers, therefore we're offering a public static IP at a fee.

If you'd want to raise the issue to discuss could you please forward your concerns to [email protected] and our Support Team will be on it.

Please don't take offence to this comment but anyone who is semi-clued up would never want carrier grade nat, seriously it is a way of BORKING many users connection to the WWW, why is a company like yours even doing this?/

After a few email to Hyperoptic about CGNAT I gave up. It was obvious their support staff aren't very technical and didn't understand the issues, and they ignored requests to escalate it to someone technical.

They used to be great for support. You called and it was answered by someone who knew what they were talking about. Now you get a call handler who seems to have no training. I guess they have severely cut costs with the off shoring.

Time to vote with actions and leave them then.

Really don't get this CGNAT nonsense. It's like some companies are unwilling or unable to deploy IPv6 but are running (or have run) out of IPv4, so they see this as a quick fix / stop gap work around.

Total madness.

Unfortunately I'm somewhat trapped; they are the only option where I live if I want anything quicker than ADSL.

Usefully the black friday discount I signed at works out at slightly more than the cost of a static IP, so I'm still making a slight saving compared to before.

That being said, once they deploy IPv6 (in early 2017 like they keep saying...) we'll see how things change.

Hello,

We're sorry to hear about your experience. We'd like the opportunity to investigate this further, please email your details to [email protected] and we'll follow up.

Hello,

Sorry to hear that this has been your experience. Can you please PM your details - we'd like to follow up.

In reply to a post by blueacid:

Well, I've just been moved to CGNat, despite having spoken to an agent last week who assured me that I could be moved directly to a static IP when the time came for the CGNat move.

If they had said "No, you'll be on CGNat for a while, sorry", then I could have made a plan to keep remote access to my server at home, but being told I would be moved directly to a static IP and for this to then not happen was pretty poor.

Same situation here. I'd asked about a static IP before and was told I'd been put on a list of people to go straight to a static IP when the migration happened. We'll it's happened and now I'm on a CGNAT address which is causing me problems. I've only been a customer for a month and this is a pretty poor start.

edit: To be fair to hyperoptic, this has now been sorted out within a matter of hours of sending an email to support, so fair play. Let's just chalk it up to an oversight.

Edited by deleted (Sat 10-Dec-16 01:53:10)

CGNAT is total disaster - think about all those devices that you want to connect to in your home like security camera's, thermostat, lighting system.

All broken in one go. I had the guys out from my security company for days to figure out why the camera's stopped being contactable.

It is only because of some post on this forum it became clear that effectively all traffic initiated from the outside to your router was going nowhere!

Normal browsing and gaming seemed ok though...

Frankly this situation is pretty unacceptable. HO should have had the decency to allow their existing customers who helped you build out your current userbase to maintain the static IP for free and you could just move your new customer base on it.

That way HO would have been open and honest about it. The initial letters sent to customers did not even mention CGNAT but only stated moves from static to public!

So, is it a way I can go back to access my NAS remotely?
DynDNS seems to work and renews the DNS to the external IP, but then port forwarding, as it used to work before, doesn't work anymore.
Is there any special configuration I need to add to the router, or my only option now is to pay the £5 to get back to a static IP?

You are using a service that needs port forwarding then static IP with its charge is the way to go now.

I was surprised after switching to Hyperoptic that a static IP which used to be free, is now going to cost me an extra £5:00 per month. My previous ISP Plusnet (fibre) only charged a £6:00 one-off fee for providing a static IP address. Why is Hyperoptic's static ip provision so expensive, it's not like I have a choice because I do need port forwarding.

.

Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Feb-17 21:37:13)

Because as IPv4 blocks become harder to find they are a limited resource and thus providers are actually having to buy blocks on the open market, therefore the cost gets passed on.

Hopefully once IPv6 rolls out this will be less of an issue, as many more IP addresses in IPv6

I don't think anyone is arguing it should be free, but reading around suggests that an IPv4 address costs less than £10 (a one-off cost) when bought in any kind of quantity. If you're with Hyperoptic for five years with a static address then you'll have paid £300 for it.

Without access to their accounts hard to say more, it may be they have a limited stock and the price is acting as a limit

It would be interesting if you could establish that by using CGN, Hyperoptic are not providing proper Internet access since you do not have a public IP address which others can use to contact you. Is this reflected in their product descriptions?

In reply to a post by Hyperoptic_CS:

Hello KuriyamaMirai,

So sorry to hear that you're disappointed with the fact that we're migrating subscribers from the public static IPs to CGN. This is being done as an interim solution before the IPv6 roll out in the first half od 2017, and all because of the exhaustion of IPv4 on a global level. We are aware that this is affecting some of the customers, therefore we're offering a public static IP at a fee.

If you'd want to raise the issue to discuss could you please forward your concerns to [email protected] and our Support Team will be on it.

Which translates as:

We haven't got enough IPv4 space. We are new, got limited allocation. A problem not entirely down to Hyperoptic.

We didn't roll out IPv6 when we first launched, but should have, which would have been sensible and would actually mean it eases pressure as many domestic customers would never know or tell the difference, things would work. This is just sloppy and lazy by Hyperoptic.

We're having to use CGNAT so we can keep taking on customers. Sort of the only option they had, but they'd have known this on day 1, they knew what they had and could likely get.

We figured we could make more money from people needing a Static IP, so pony up the dough - this will also help us manage our cronic lack of IPv4 space.

Did Brett design the Hyperoptic network using his experience of designing the Bethere network?

Do you honestly think they are trying to make money out of static IPs? It's really not worth their time. I guarantee a tiny proportion of people will pay for them.

This is going to happen to every ISPs soon. 95% of customers couldn't give a toss (including me) whether I have a CGNAT or a 'proper' IP. This problem will resolve itself completely once IPv6 rollout is done, but £5/month hardly breaks the bank, especially if you consider most apartments hyperoptic is in will cost thousands of pounds a month to rent.

So mobile phones don't provider proper internet access either do they?

In reply to a post by mr_mojo:

So mobile phones don't provider proper internet access either do they?

Nope, but mostly because of lack of signal.

However the issue is less important with mobile phones as the need for others to contact them by IP address is much less important. They do however have a unique phone number which allows them to be contacted.

In reply to a post by mr_mojo:

Do you honestly think they are trying to make money out of static IPs? It's really not worth their time. I guarantee a tiny proportion of people will pay for them.

Sure, a "tiny" proportion will buy it (you think), but it costs practically nothing for them to do it - what's not worth the time - it's just a billing thing and a small bit of automated provisioning. Big deal. It's not really the point.

This is going to happen to every ISPs soon. 95% of customers couldn't give a toss (including me) whether I have a CGNAT or a 'proper' IP. This problem will resolve itself completely once IPv6 rollout is done, but £5/month hardly breaks the bank, especially if you consider most apartments hyperoptic is in will cost thousands of pounds a month to rent.

Actually CGNAT does break all kinds of regular stuff that ordinary people use, and does cause issues - it causes issues on mobile networks too.

The fact of the matter and the crux of my point is that HO should have had IPv6 from the outset - and would have helped.

Hello,

We understand that this is affecting some of our customers, however, it's a temporary solution until we implement IPv6 - we�re currently working on our IPv6 rollout plans and we will start to introduce the next generation of IP addresses in the first half of the year. The recent change has no impact on the security of the connection, this is simply about how we manage the allocation of our available IP addresses. If you do notice any issues please contact our Customer Support team on 0333 332 1111 and we will be happy to assist.

You were founded in 2010. IPv6 initial RFC was released in December 1995 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1883 ). I was tinkering with IPv6 via BT's UK6x tunnel service and, later, Hurricain Electric's tunnel service, back in the initial years of the previous decade (2000s).

We are now 7 years on from when you were founded. One would think that your founders, at that point in time, had the forward vision and historical perspective to get IPv6 implemented within your network, well before reaching the problems you and your customers are now facing.

I can only put this short-sightedness down to shareholders/investors not willing to put themselves out due to the additional cost required to make your network IPv6 capable.

Disappointing, but I guess that's the way these things go.

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Feb-17 13:52:49)

Huh? What has the phone number got to do with it. Does STUN & TURN work over PSTN now?

I've just been CGNAT'd. At 8.30pm, the connection just went dead. With no notice from Hyperoptic. Extremely poor service, especially as they don't bother answering their 24/7 support line.

Thanks Hyperoptic!

i would understand if New joining customers had CGN form the start but not old customers with no warning been forced onto GCN as that means they can sell there blocks off at high price to make a quick buck and charge £5 a month for a static IP

Someone finally answered the phone after the second outage tonight.

As I was told it was happening back in September, they see no need to tell users that their connection would go down when they implement CGNAT.

Their network team apparently decide on the day which sites to do that evening.

They have really gone down hill. You used to be able to talk to someone technical when you called. All you get now are call handlers.

Hello,

We're sorry to hear you haven't been informed about CGN migration. Please send us a PM with your account details so that we can investigate this further and follow up.

Thank you,

In reply to a post by Hyperoptic_CS:

. . . . . . .we're migrating subscribers from the public static IPs to CGN. This is being done as an interim solution before the IPv6 roll out in the first half od 2017,

What's the update on this project. H1 2017 is well and truly upon us and it's clear that your interim solution is still being rolled out. Can we have a progress update with timings.

M

Hello,

Our team is currently working on IPv6 roll out plans and we expect to introduce the next generation of IP addresses in the first half of the year. Please stayed tuned for further updates.

Best wishes,

Ana

So it's 1st May today. That's two months left.

I'd wager that by 30 June we'll be lucky to have even heard what the plan is, much less be any closer to actually having an ipv6 service.

It's now mid-July. Any news of the IPv6 roll out due in the first HALF of 2017?

The comment about ipv6 being released in the first half or 2017 is still on their website.

And, it's been archived (on 6th July) by the Internet Archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170706044122/https://s...

So, if they try a sneaky change to the website, here's what was originally said


I did call them a month ago asking about ipv6. The report then was "Still working on it, no news to report", basically... nothing.

Hi all,

We have begun to roll out IPv6 at some of our developments as part of a trial. Providing everything continues to go smoothly, we expect the full roll out to commence from September.

Best regards,

Jelena

What's the latest with the IPv6 deployment?

I'd also like to know what the latest is on the IPv6 rollout please Hyperoptic.

The full roll-out of IPv6 is currently taking place. New buildings are being updated every day and our team is on track. Feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

How do I know when IPv6 is installed? Do I need a new router, or anything changed in the current hyperoptic-provided one?

Tools like https://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/what-is-my-ip will report your IPv6 address, assuming your device (PC/phone/tablet) is set up for dual stack, i.e. run IPv4 and IPv6 at the same time and most are out of the box unless you turned off IPv6

Thanks.
I added a new ipv6 connection to the Hyperoptic router and returned an IPv6 address.
in Windows, I get

netsh interface ipv6 show addresses

Addr Type DAD State Valid Life Pref. Life Address
--------- ----------- ---------- ---------- ------------------------
Temporary Preferred 2h 1h fde2:50e4:551f:0:6df6:c880:cdc4:1ce2
Public Preferred 2h 1h fde2:50e4:551f:0:89aa:d2b5:e7d2:8fbf
Other Preferred infinite infinite fe80::89aa:d2b5:e7d2:8fbf%17


so apparently IPv6 is enabled?
but still if I go to https://www.thinkbroadband.com/tools/what-is-my-ip it says I only have IPv4

That is just a local LAN IPv6 address until the Internet interface of the Hyperoptic router is given the IPv6 address it will not be able to pass on a public IP to the machines on the LAN.

We can see some people with IPv6 via Hyperoptic on the speed test but its a small proportion yet

ah, the Hyperoptic router says this

Does not match the IPv6 block I know about for Hyperoptic, so time to talk to their support

Hi, we'll be making the updates on our side, if you'd like to know more details, we'll gladly check for you. Please contact our CS team, available 24/7, they'll look into your account and assist you with this.

Had a similar issue!
A 1* on Trustpilot seems to get their attention if you want some decent service - shame it come to tht!