PC cases

I'm embarking on what for me is a major leap into the unknown, namely building my own PC.
I've decided on most of the components, but would like to get some advice regarding cases. I want a quiet case.

The machine will be running continuously, and pretty much full pelt, processing work units for the Folding at Home project, so quietness is a major requirement. (I'm doing this to spare my Apple kit

Although this is an Apple related forum, I'll bet there are quite a few roll your own experts around here.

Anyone have any advice?

Check out Quiet PC. System builders know from trial and error what components go together to provide good air-flow but when you do-it-yourself, you're pretty much on your own so be prepared to shell out for a good case. If you want really quiet operation, consider liquid cooling.

P.S. If you go for air cooling, make sure that the case that you select provides enough room for the mobo and cpu cooler that you want to use. It is very easy to buy a case that does not provide enough room for large coolers. Quiet PC should be able to tell you what cases, mobo's and coolers work well together.

Edited by micksharpe (Thu 14-Jun-12 22:40:17)

Thanks for your reply. I've been browsing the cases on offer on that site. They have a good range.

It's all to do with compatibility isn't it? I'm plodding through the choosing of components slowly - next up, the power supply.

The case I use has won awards for being both cool and quiet. I can assure you that the awards are justly awarded.

The case in question is, SilverStone Fortress FT02, I have the black version. Plenty of room for tower coolers, in mine I have a Zalman CNPS10X Performa and this, with a specified height of 152mm, mine is actually 155mm tall, fits in the case with about 18mm to spare.

Sadly, keeping components cool and quiet is not a cheap business - not in my case, anyway.

See what I did there...?

Hello ichatergosum

Sorry I'm 'anon' but came to this site for a very different issue, just noticed the thread and don't want to have another password to remember!

Anyway, the case/noise issue is largely related to cooling and therefore related to how much heat the components are generating. That depends upon; are you going to run projects that take advantage of a GPU (or more than one), are you going to overclock the processor, what type of processor will it be, how efficient is your PSU (80+, 85%+ ??), hard disk or SSD and will the project need the disk running?

I strongly suggest you go for a good quality PSU for many reasons. A few % extra efficiency will pay back the extra cost in electricity savings - even a few watts soon mount up when running 24/7/365. More efficient means the fan has less heat to 'blow away' and a quality PSU is likely to have a decent quiet fan installed anyway.

Hard working GPUs and silence are nigh-on mutually exclusive terms, they suck in the amps and blow out the Watts! Water cooling with a large radiator and large slow turning fans will keep the noise down, but at a cost.

Sandy or Ivy bridge processors run pretty cool at stock speeds and a look at specs for third-party coolers will find you a quiet (sadly not silent) solution for £20-30. Check though that the total height will fit in whatever case you decide on and remember that if you fit noise reducing foam inside the case that will reduce the clearance. Overclock the processor and it's 'how long is a piece of string'? Again water cooling with a big rad and fan can be an effective but costly answer.

Low voltage RAM helps a little but the options are limited.

If you don't have the GPU processing and don't overclock the CPU (or at least not much) and have only SSD then you can pretty much rely on a good PSU and processor cooler in whatever case you like. Even if it has cheap fans installed, they are not difficult to replace with quality, quiet fans and you might be able to do without them altogether. If you are going to overclock and run a GPU or two, the post from 'micksharpe' to look at 'Quiet PC' is good advice.

Personally, I always loved the Antec 1200 as it had room for a lot of kit inside and all bar the large, quiet top fan were speed adjustable. It is quiet when they are turned down but not so quiet if everything is running flat out on a 30C summer day. Recently I've tried a Fractal Design R3 and although I didn't get it for the sound properties, it has impressed me how quiet it is - and at a reasonable price.

If money is no object, just rip out all the fans and keep feeding the beast with liquid nitrogen. But for a more practical and economic solution think how much heat the system will generate and plan for that. Remember too that any fan filters benefit greatly from regular cleaning.

Good luck!

Thanks for your comments, Rapster.
I took a look at the SilverStone Fortress FT02. It looks good but it's too deep for where I want to put the thing unfortunately.

That's a generously long reply, 'Anon'. Thank you - it gave me plenty to think about.
At my level of expertise, I find that 'thinking about' tends to 'going round in circles', although I have made some progress.
One case I'm initially considering is the Fractal Design Arc Midi Tower
I'm hoping I've made a sensible first choice there. Any thoughts?

The list of components I've compiled so far are:

Gigabyte GA Z68MA-D2H-B3
Intel Core i7-2600k
2 x 2GB Corsair CMX8GX3M4A1333C9
Samsung Super-writemaster Sh-s223c
Western digital Caviar Blue 160GB (7200) SATA 8 MB 3.5 inch
Gigabyte KM5200 USB Keyboard and Mouse kit
Dell IN1720 17 inch WideScreen LCD Monitor

That leaves the PSU. What constitutes a good quality PSU?
I'm not going the GPU route for processing the Folding work units.
If I could find a smaller monitor, I'd opt for it. Basically, my aim is to set everything up, with Ubuntu as the OS, and let it rip.

Buy an 80 PLUS PSU and use a PSU calculator to size your PSU correctly. Don't over-specify otherwise you'll waste a lot of electricity, even with a high-efficiency PSU.

Thanks for the 80 Plus advice - I hadn't come across that. This highlights the feeling I have that I'm groping in the dark pretty much.

I used the PSU calculator, and came up with 252 Watts.

I selected 1 DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive for my presently chosen optical drive, and 1HDD under the Regular SATA tab for Hard Drive. Was I correct there?

It seems most PSUs are sold on the basis of using them with graphics cards, which I won't be using. Any recommendations? Just a pointer in the right direction would be a help.

Sorry. By "over-specify" I meant don't buy an 800W unit or something similar. A 400W PSU will be fine and you would be hard-pressed to find anything smaller than that. Any 80 PLUS unit from Quiet PC should do the job. A fanless PSU would, of course, be the bee's knees but they are expensive and only really appropriate if you're taking the liquid cooling route. Don't buy a budget PSU. They will have cheap and nasty capacitors and probably poor efficiency and regulation at low power usage (which you will have.)

How about the Nexus Value-430 from Quiet PC -- 430W, 80 PLUS and 15dB noise level (very good if they're being honest) for £60?

I always agonize over what case and PSU to buy. Choosing all the other stuff is easy by comparison.

Edited by micksharpe (Sat 16-Jun-12 14:29:17)

Mick - you should note that that PSU is not 80 plus certifed, and the 15dba is only at low loads. Also note that it doesn't have overpower protection, which could be relevant in a PC that is going to be running 100% most of the time.

You're right. Afaik, PSU selection is a minefield. The only consistent advice that I've come across is not to spend too little money.

Couldn't agree more. Spend as much as you can afford (and avoid no-name PSUs like the plague), especially in a highly stressed environment like this. I think it's going to be a tough ask to combine folding@home with a quiet PC. I'm not sure the PSU is going to be the problem noise-wise; I would expect the CPU fan to be the major culprit.

I'm certainly willing to fork out a bit more on the PSU. Could you recommend some to choose from? Looks like I could get away with 400/450 Watt. I have the option later on to put an extra fan in the case, or even (if I'm brave enough) a new heat sink on the CPU.

I fully understand my PC will be operating at 100%. It's basically what it's for - to spare my (our!) iMac.

On my Intel iMac, in Activity Monitor, I see figures like 197% for FahCore_a3.exe which is the name of the Folding @ Home client I run. That's when little else is running, of course.
On my eventual PC I would expect corresponding values of 397% for Fah wouldn't I, considering the Intel Core i7-2600k has four cores?

I understand your comment re F@H/quietness being a tough ask, but at the moment the CPU Core temps are 72ºC on my iMac and it's quiet enough so as to be quite unobtrusive. The HD Drive Bay temp is 47ºC.

In reply to a post by ichatergosum:

at the moment the CPU Core temps are 72ºC on my iMac and it's quiet enough so as to be quite unobtrusive. The HD Drive Bay temp is 47ºC.

Which version of F@H are you running? I looked at it but it appears V7 isn't OS X ready yet.

My iMac is idle a lot of the time, and it might be nice to give it something useful to do

I've got the 6.29.3 client - I went to the middle button here and downloaded the middle option:

[email protected]
Mac OS X 10.5+ Intel 32/64-bit SMP Installer

Thanks, I'll investigate a bit further than I did last time.

Interesting that you should say that.
I also investigated it, some time ago, and got precisely nowhere. What spurred me on this time around was a Horizon programme shown on the 9th of April to do with the work of The Royal Marsden and the Institute Of Cancer Research. It followed the progress of three cancer patients and their treatments, which were eventually successful. The programme is on YouTube, in its entirety.
At one point, about 43 minutes into the programme, there was a huge screen with a 3D model of a protein which could be rotated onscreen to have different perspectives. It's the cavities in these structures that they're interested in with regard to possible drug design. That was the moment I decided that I would get f@H up and running, finally. I've had it up and running since shortly after the 9th of April.

(You can probably tell that I can be a Folding @ Home bore.)

A couple of other points to consider that are on my mind (and I have not run FAH for a long time) are:

Don't GPUs (the graphics cards) play a far more important role in processing protein folding software tasks as above?

And, have you considered the Playstation 3?

I really don't know anything about all this as it currently stands but I can see there are whole sections of FAQs devoted to the subjects at FAH:

http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ

Also, there are a great many Folding Forums and these have a lot of dedicated people who can give some expert up to date advice. I think it should be okay to give a link here to Bit Tech: http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?f=111, they have one such forum and the advantage is their site is totally geared up to computing, including 'folding' and building custom specs, choosing and sourcing components. I think you should not overlook the role of the graphics card but maybe things have moved on with the latest crop of multi-core central processors?

Lastly, you can get SSDs relatively cheaply these days as prices have fallen considerably in the past month. A Crucial M4 128GB SSD is not a bad choice for price/performance: £87 example at Amazon (be sure to update firmware first though). Oh, and my hunch is that you should be able to buy a relatively small case and modest system spec and still have very good Folding performance without needing to worry too much about super efficient cooling requirements above and beyond a few fans. It just depends on the hardware and how hard you intend to run it and this is why you need to read up on other people's experience in building this niche quiet and high performance design really - fans and heatsinks can be replaced but that's a hassle you can avoid if reading about other people's experience beforehand.

Thanks for your post and the links, especially the bit-tech forums which are new to me.
There is a huge amount to read on the F@H website. I've been reading and re-reading stuff for the past couple of months, and asking questions on their forums. Quite a bit of the info is out of date, I've found, but gives a perspective on things in general. Even more is way over my head.

I decided the CPU route over the GPU route on grounds of cost. There are plenty of WUs to run on CPUs and for the time being I'm happy with that. At present the WUs I'm getting are helping to study how influenza viruses recognise and infect cells. It's early days for me yet with F@H. I might expand my horizons in time.

As well as wanting to contribute to the F@H project, I also want to build my own PC just out of plain old curiosity. I've read about the PS3 which has made huge contributions , but I'm not tempted (must ... resist ...).

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Jun-12 12:21:43)

Bit Tech publish a PC hardware buyer's guide every once in a while and it just so happens they recently updated it in May. It's well worth a perusal as it has much handy advice for specifying which components you might need based on price/performance at different levels - eg casual, gaming, budget and enthusiast.

Two good things about it are that it's more UK based with regards to UK retailers and more accurate UK pricing and they will make particular recommendations for products they've actually reviewed that are actually decent since they're very thorough and fair in their testing. Loosely following their guide you should be able to ensure you get the right (good value and performance) components for the job. Their folding and other forums might help make you aware of anything else to consider that the main site does not bring to your attention.

Here's the link to the buyer's guide.

Good luck and be sure to let us know how you're coming on with the project. You'll find good PSU and CPU cooling suggestions over at BT. The rest is pretty straight forward really. If you want some component buying site suggestions here's a few I have tended to use:

Scan (check their Today Only page for reductions and Hexus support forums)
Ebuyer
Dabs (same place as BT shop)
Overclockers.co.uk (also have deals and an active support forum)

You can also get discounts through Quidco.com for some of those places and if you sign up and post to Hexus forums, you used to be able to get free delivery (when you spend £20 exVAT or more) at Scan.

Edited by deleted (Sun 17-Jun-12 15:51:35)

It's me, the same 'anon' again.
Much good advice above but a couple of brief notes on things I don't think have been mentioned - but I might have missed!

These comments are based on you only wanting the system to do f@h (or other BOINC) processing - not using the 'box' as an everyday, general-purpose computer.

Once it is set-up, you won't need a keyboard, mouse or monitor attached. Therefore you could get away with juat about anything - old or borrowed - for setting up then pull the plugs (and USB 'dongles') and put them away. My knowledge of Ubuntu is limited but I strongly suspect there is remote control/monitoring software that can let you see the operation from another machine - you Mac for instance - over the network.

Same for your CD/DVD drive - once it all works, pull the plugs and save the few watts in and heat out.

I've not used an i7-2600 flat out but have used the i5-2550K and my experience is that it runs pretty cool even with the Intel cooler at stock speeds. Many third-party coolers will do a better job more quietly - near silently - but once you get into overclocking it's a new game and a long discussion!

A small SSD - 60Gb or less - is not so expensive these days and will save a few watts and dB. Alternatively, a hybrid drive or 'Green' 5900 RPM drive are worth considering.

I agree completely with all comments regarding 80+ PSU of a known brand. A few extra pounds should give you peace of mind re reliability and running costs as well as a quiet time. Personally I prefer modular for neatness and potentially improved airflow through the case but I recognise the view that the extra connector is intrinsically less-reliable. I've never had a problem with connectors on a quality PSU but, each to their own.

Whatever you decide there will always be suggestions for a 'better way' but just about everything in life is a compromise so just make the best choice that seems right for you and watch the WUs mount up!

Finally, it's good to find a forum with such sensible, open minded and polite posts - not so on some of the forums I've come across.

Anon, your point about disconnecting the keyboard/mouse and monitor is a good one, as is the disconnecting of the Optical Drive - these ideas probably wouldn't have occurred to me. I'm up for saving on electricity.

Odd things I've noticed:
I tried to find an 80GB hard drive, but they're more expensive than (roughly twice as much as) the 160, if you can find one for sale that is. I suppose there isn't much demand for the smaller drives these days.
Likewise, monitors. I haven't found a 15" one except on ebay, and I'd rather get brand new with warranty for my first foray into self-build.

Now for some questions:

1) Could you point me in the direction of good PSU names?
2) Is this a decent SSD? I understand I'll need an adapter of sorts to get it to fit securely into a HD bay, although I read somewhere that some double-sided tape would do the job. (I won't be going the double-sided tape route.)
3) With a modular PSU, the neatness factor sounds good. Does a modular PSU come with a range of cables for the various usual components in a typical PC? I imagine I'd have some left over.

This is the only disadvantage regarding modular PSUs (from the Wikipedia article on modular PSUs) that I'm unsure of:

As of early 2011 most modular power supplies used the same connectors as each other, but with different, non-standardized pin-outs. Interchanging cables between brands can damage equipment by applying incorrect voltages, grounds and opens to outputs such as SATA power connectors. There is rarely any visual indication or keyed connector to prevent using an incorrect cable.

That's an awful lot for one post. I'm seriously tempted to get a SSD, and modular PSU, but will wait on any answers before thinking further.

A bit pricey, but I can personally recommend the Corsair HX650. Corsair is one of the manufacturers that are consistently recommended, and this one has had pretty good reviews (search Google and you should find a few). I'm not sure how noisy it is as my other components are far louder but a review should help here. I notice that two of the three Amazon reviews comment on how quiet it is.

I would forget about modular PSUs. I have an OCZ ZT550W. The cables are incredibly fiddly to fit once the PSU is in place and they are so long that it makes the entire exercise pointless. Never again.

Reputable PSU manufacturers: Akasa, Antec, Corsair and Zalman come to mind. Seasonic are re-badged by other companies and may be good for fanless PSUs. My OCZ is too new to comment about although it is pretty quiet.

Intel are reckoned to make the most reliable SSDs. Crucial make good memory sticks so their SSDs may be OK. I bought an OCZ Petrol 128GB. It started corrupting my data as soon as I installed it - which reminds me - I must RMA it. I'll be ordering Intel next time I want an SSD.

I've got to say that my experiences of modular PSUs are exactly the opposite (which may be because each manufacturer is different). On the Corsair the cables are very easy to install (unlike a Hiper that I had previously) and being flat can be routed so that they hardly impede airflow at all. And it is so much better to only have tha cables that you require.

But each to their own.

I thought that modular would be a good idea but I wasn't happy with my choice. Also, why package PSUs in velvet draw-string bags? OCZ aren't the only manufacturers to do this.

TBH, I would prefer a con-block and make my own cables.

Edited by micksharpe (Mon 18-Jun-12 13:48:34)

More good advice above.
I'm not familiar with the Akasa or Zalman PSUs but I'm using and am happy with both Antec and Corsair. No point in recommending the specific models I'm using as they are now superseded!
Same with SSDs. I have two (discontinued) Crucial C300-120GB devices and apart from a problem with an early firmware in one of them (fixed with an update), everything has been fine for >1 year. One is heavily used, the other moderately. Intel have a good reputation for SSDs, probably the best, but I've not seen many SSDs that get bad reviews for reliability. Performance for SSDs does vary a lot so check carefully - the headline figure may be for reading with write speed a lot lower. For your purposes the R/W performance variations between SSDs will make a slight but not substantial difference. Even so, careful checking should find you a good performer for both reading and writing at a decent price.
Fact is, there are now so many SSDs and PSUs on the market, few users will have experience of more than a handful so it's usually a matter of looking at customer reviews/feedback on suppliers sites - even if you don't buy from that supplier. Overclockers, Novatech. Dabs/BT and Amazon are all worth a look to get a feel of what users think.
You shouldn't have any problem with connector options on modular PSUs. Higher rated PSUs will typically have more connectors for GPUs and disk drives but I can't imagine any unit will not have enough connectors for your build. Most manufacturers do use the same connections on the PSU unit but even if not, you are only buying one and all supplied cables should work with that! As for length of leads... well, a monster case will want longer leads, a smaller case, probably shorter ones so PSU manufacturers usually supply fairly long leads and some cable management may be needed. It's just that with a modular supply, the may be fewer un-needed cables to manage.
Finally - mounting 2.5" drives (SSDs). A lot of modern cases will already have provision to mount them - my Fractal Design case does but my Antec 1200 case from 2010 needed a 2.5"-3.5" adaptor. I suspect double sided tape is probably OK to mount them as they are light and in themselves vibration free but I'd recommend screwing them down - or at least adding a few cable ties to the double-sided tape method.

Cheers
anon (who if he replies again will have to get a username!)

In reply to a post by ichatergosum:

1) Could you point me in the direction of good PSU names?
2) Is this a decent SSD? I understand I'll need an adapter of sorts to get it to fit securely into a HD bay, although I read somewhere that some double-sided tape would do the job. (I won't be going the double-sided tape route.)
3) With a modular PSU, the neatness factor sounds good. Does a modular PSU come with a range of cables for the various usual components in a typical PC? I imagine I'd have some left over.

The Crucial M4 SSD drive has a decent reputation for price/performance though the 64GB version does not perform at the same level as higher capacity versions. You can read some reviews at Bit Tech but if you need a higher performing SSD (better IOPS) then the Samsung 830 series is very well regarded and is priced quite competitively also. It's the one I'd go for and a 128GB model can currently be had for under £110. You can easily and cheaply buy 2.5" to 3.5" SSD desktop brackets from the likes of Amazon. They operate silently which is the main reason I recommended them.

I too recommend Corsair for PSU. Can't recall now but I believe Corsair are rebranded Seasonics. I have a modluar Corsair PSU myself in a large Lian Li case and it's quiet and very efficient. Using different modular PSU component cables is a definite no-no but why would you want to anyway?

My old OCZ PSU died after 2 years and was still in warranty but the warranty terms required sending it to Holland for replacement with no guarantee they'd receive it/log it properly if not sent 'signed for' so after sales can be an issue too if extended warranty periods are a concern. I did not find OCZ's US based website any help at all so can't recommend them.

I made the plunge:

Intel Core i7-2600k
Gigabyte GA Z68MA-D2H-B3
Corsair CMP4GX3M2A1600C9 (2 x 2GB)
Intel 330 Series 60GB 2.5� SSD
Samsung Super-writemaster Sh-s223c
Corsair CMPSU-430CXV2UK Builder Series CX430V2
Fractal Arc Mini Case
Gigabyte KM5200 USB Keyboard and Mouse Kit
Dell E1709W 17 inch LCD Flat Panel Monitor

The CPU had risen in price over the time I've been researching all this, but the kb/mouse item dropped from £10 to £5.95!
I spent ages chasing round the Gigabyte, Corsair and Amazon sites, in the wee small hours, before I could track down two (m/b-compatible) 2GB sticks of Corsair memory. I seemed to be constantly directed to pairs of 4GB sticks, but obstinacy made me persist - I wasn't to be a passive drone, succumbing to inertia selling of RAM. It meant that I got the 1600 instead of the 1333 type, but it was cheaper than paying more for more of the 1333 type.

Done - for now.

Many thanks to everyone who has helped so far.

Edited by deleted (Tue 19-Jun-12 15:12:49)

Well, it's built and up and running with Ubuntu 12.04.
I count that as a major result for me, and wish to thank everyone who replied to my queries.

Having got all of the components together, I can see, in retrospect (but only in retrospect) that assembly is made relatively easy for us these days. I can also see that it could become quite more-ish.

Good job. Building PCs is easy, it's just trouble shooting faults if or when something goes wrong. That can be a bit of a nightmare, especially if you don't have a back up device to connect to the internet to ask for HELP!

And in the rare event a hardware component is either faulty or otherwise has an incompatibility problem, it can be very hard proving faults if you don't have a back up machine or component to test them in. Thankfully, that's extremely rare though.

Brave of you to go for Ubuntu I think. Not having any experience with Linux I'm not sure if that makes things harder or easier than sticking Windows on your new PC. Makes sense though.

Have you taken a pics of your nice new machine yet? If you enjoy gaming you could always add a nice new graphics card to that (and Windows of course). Then you'll really get a sense of all that power under the hood of your shiny new case.

Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jun-12 18:08:11)

I chose Ubuntu specifically to avoid Windows. I have never been a Windows user, except briefly five years ago when I did an OU course and their online stuff required it at that time - don't know about now. Anyway, I set up Boot Camp, got Windows XP and had a nightmare of a time with it. Can't remember details - just the feeling of despair.
Plus, Ubuntu is free! I quite like what I've seen so far. I won't be doing anything other than Folding@home, which I now have up and running after a goodly amount of help from the F@H forums. That is another high bar to clear. I've found that nothing about F@H is intuitively obvious. I had to have help getting it running on my iMac in the first place.
I will say that my new machine is fast, and some. There will be faster ones out there, I know, but compared to my Intel iMac, it just chews the WUs up at an incredible rate.
I think I was lucky to have had such an easy ride with all this. Lots of help and advice online. No component failure during and after building the machine. I am at the place I wanted to be. Eventually I want to disconnect and put away the monitor, keyboard and mouse - and internally disconnect the optical drive to save some electricity. 'Headless' - is that what they call it? Then I'll try and get to grips with ssh - am I using the correct terminology?
I haven't taken any pics. I'm loath to be considered to be blowing my trumpet too loudly because it's fairly simple build as things go.
I've never been a gamer, so a graphics card isn't on the horizon. I suppose I'm very humdrum basically, but I now have exorcised this bee from my bonnet.

Post deleted by billford

Advertising is not permitted.

Bill, slightly off-topic, but did you make any decisions about F@H?

I've decided that (almost certainly) I'll have a go at it, it was contributory to recently maxing out the RAM on the iMac to 16GB.

But it'll have to wait until I've got a bit more time, I've been thoroughly sidetracked by real life () in the last few weeks, including arranging for the back garden to be landscaped at a [gulp] amount of money- terracing the slope and nearly 200m² of Indian sandstone doesn't come cheap

I've got this thread bookmarked, I'll come back when I've got any comments (or, more likely, questions ).