Microsoft makes Outlook for Mac free to use

https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/6/23626922/microsoft...

That seems a very strange thing to do, is it free on Windows?
I used to like outlook express on Windows, it was a simple, easy to use email client. I don't need outlook, but for people who do, it is a good that it is free, but I wonder what MS get out of it

I am having awful problems with the email client on my mac, one account works fine, but when I add a second from the same provider it just doesn't want to know, maybe I will install Thunderbird on here instead

It may be a jittery response to weld in user who might otherwise be tempted by the long overdue Thunderbird revamp that has been announced.

As the article says, they are preparing a new version for Windows that will be free.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

As the article says, they are preparing a new version for Windows that will be free.

There is a Preview version on the Microsoft Store (win10/win11).

In reply to a post by ian_c:

It may be a jittery response to weld in user who might otherwise be tempted by the long overdue Thunderbird revamp that has been announced.

May be, i like thunderbird, I have been using it for a couple of years now, but when I got this Mac I thought I would try the one that comes with it. I have got it working now, the username should be kept to auto.
Outlook is ok, I use it now and again at work, but it is more for businesses

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

As the article says, they are preparing a new version for Windows that will be free.

Sorry, i did not read that article as I have read about it on another one, but they did not say a free Windows one. i will see what the Mac's own email client is like now that I have got it working

Yeah, I've used the Mac mail app since I switched ot OSX and it is fine. No better than that, but fine is all I need.

I find the Mac one good enough for my needs. But I need to use SpamSieve with it.

In reply to a post by ian_c:

Yeah, I've used the Mac mail app since I switched ot OSX and it is fine. No better than that, but fine is all I need.

It seems ok, better than the one that came with windows 10. All i need to do is read and reply and send new emails.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I find the Mac one good enough for my needs. But I need to use SpamSieve with it.

I presume SpamSieve is an add on to get rid of spam, I would have thought your email provider would have done that?

aaaahhhhhh, why do mac use CMD instead of CTRL to for things like cup, copy and paste?
I will get used to it, but

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

aaaahhhhhh, why do mac use CMD instead of CTRL to for things like cup, copy and paste?

Because they can? If you can get the Apple large bluetooth keyboard, it has a layout similar to the PC 102key layout, and makes switching much easier (or if you run Windows/Linux in virtual machines).

Its insanely expensive now, with the TouchID built in... ugh!

It's a legacy of pre-OSX, left in to ease transition and still there.

Or because they were first (or at least the first to bring cut/copy/paste to a consumer graphical user interface). And they chose to add the CMD key to do these things.

When Microsoft came to do the same thing they didn't have the luxury of designing their own keyboard so they were stuck with the control key.

Which lead to unfortunate compromises like ctrl-c not working in the command window in Windows, because ctrl-c is generally used for interrupting running command line processes. A situation which is still there in the default command line environment in Windows 37 years later!

Before ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v it was even more wacky: shift-del, ctrl-ins, shift-ins.

Not to mention every text editor on MSDOS having completely different key combinations for cut/copy/paste. I still use the Wordstar ctrl-k, b | ctrl-k, k | ctrl-k c | ctrl-k v combinations when I'm editing text over on Linux (I never did get to grips with the nonsense that is vi, first thing I do on a new Linux install is to add the Joe text editor).

Curiously ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v work in Microsoft apps on the Mac, alongside the standard CMD based ones.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Or because they were first (or at least the first to bring cut/copy/paste to a consumer graphical user interface). And they chose to add the CMD key to do these things.

When Microsoft came to do the same thing they didn't have the luxury of designing their own keyboard so they were stuck with the control key.

My memory of history is different, MS used Shift+Insert and other odd combinations for Windows 1.0, through to 3.0, and only adopted the Ctrl+X, C, V in Windows 3.1 as part of adopting IBM’s Common User Access design guide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

Which lead to unfortunate compromises like ctrl-c not working in the command window in Windows, because ctrl-c is generally used for interrupting running command line processes. A situation which is still there in the default command line environment in Windows 37 years later!

Um, Ctrl+C works in the Windows 9x era “Dos prompt” and in the NT Console window… not sure why it doesn’t for you. Frequently use it to terminate legacy batch (BAT) and modern command (CMD) files.

Before ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v it was even more wacky: shift-del, ctrl-ins, shift-ins.

Yep, learnt those on Win1.0

Not to mention every text editor on MSDOS having completely different key combinations for cut/copy/paste. I still use the Wordstar ctrl-k, b | ctrl-k, k | ctrl-k c | ctrl-k v combinations when I'm editing text over on Linux (I never did get to grips with the nonsense that is vi, first thing I do on a new Linux install is to add the Joe text editor).

Those all pre-date MS DOS, the Wordstar CTRL K, D, for exit and save was on the CPM 2.2 Osborne 1 I had as a kid, even continued onto the CPM3 (CPM+) system that the Amstrad PCW word processors came with.

Its worth learning VI when your distro crashes and you have to boot into single user mode, or you have to use a Solaris/SunOS box, or a SCO box, or even a Cisco or Juniper router. They ALL have vi or vim available.

The most useful is quit without saving :q!

Curiously ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v work in Microsoft apps on the Mac, alongside the standard CMD based ones.

Probably made some MS developer very happy

I think you have misunderstood the statement about Ctrl-c not working in a command Window. The statement was that it doesn’t work as a copy command, precisely because of its traditional break function.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Or because they were first (or at least the first to bring cut/copy/paste to a consumer graphical user interface). And they chose to add the CMD key to do these things.

When Microsoft came to do the same thing they didn't have the luxury of designing their own keyboard so they were stuck with the control key.

My memory of history is different, MS used Shift+Insert and other odd combinations for Windows 1.0, through to 3.0, and only adopted the Ctrl+X, C, V in Windows 3.1 as part of adopting IBM’s Common User Access design guide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

I may well have mixed up the timing/sequence on that (though I did attempt to check my memory with some Googling), it was a long time ago after all...

Which lead to unfortunate compromises like ctrl-c not working in the command window in Windows, because ctrl-c is generally used for interrupting running command line processes. A situation which is still there in the default command line environment in Windows 37 years later!

Um, Ctrl+C works in the Windows 9x era “Dos prompt” and in the NT Console window… not sure why it doesn’t for you. Frequently use it to terminate legacy batch (BAT) and modern command (CMD) files.

You misunderstood what I was saying. The unfortunate compromise is that ctrl-c doesn't work for copying in a command window, because it has to be used for interrupting the running process.

Wikipedia suggests that it was IBM CUA that settled on shift-del, ctrl-ins, ctrl-del and that it was Microsoft that added ctrl-x/ctrl-c/ctrl-v later to line up with the Mac (in Win 3.1 as you said, but they were actually departing from CUA).

I suspect IBM would have recognised that ctrl-c wasn't a good choice...

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I think you have misunderstood the statement about Ctrl-c not working in a command Window. The statement was that it doesn’t work as a copy command, precisely because of its traditional break function.

Ahh yes… hence the drag to highlight and right click with mouse (from NT onwards).

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

I may well have mixed up the timing/sequence on that (though I did attempt to check my memory with some Googling), it was a long time ago after all...

I was sure OS/2 used X/C/V but it appears its my memory that was wrong.. apologies!

You misunderstood what I was saying. The unfortunate compromise is that ctrl-c doesn't work for copying in a command window, because it has to be used for interrupting the running process.

As Tiny pointed out the same… gotcha, and at least from NT onwards you can highlight with mouse and right click. (Or pipe output to CLIP).

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Wikipedia suggests that it was IBM CUA that settled on shift-del, ctrl-ins, ctrl-del and that it was Microsoft that added ctrl-x/ctrl-c/ctrl-v later to line up with the Mac (in Win 3.1 as you said, but they were actually departing from CUA).

Good spot… my memory of OS/2 was probably after the IBM/MS split and IBM probably copied Win3.1 keystrokes (against CUA)

I suspect IBM would have recognised that ctrl-c wasn't a good choice...

Not sure there, the PS/2 wasn’t a great sell… despite being all over Dixons for years 😂

I still try F10 for menus, but its not that well known

In reply to a post by jchamier:

[Because they can? :) If you can get the Apple large bluetooth keyboard, it has a layout similar to the PC 102key layout, and makes switching much easier (or if you run Windows/Linux in virtual machines).

Its [url="https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMMR3LB/A/magic-keyboard-with-touch-id-and-numeric-keypad-for-mac-models-with-apple-silicon-us-english-black-keys?fnode=8db259d1f1d84b7e16903cbf8677e2799335a065a04816242984dfb2b67a3c9721e83057ec6d47cf9fc3b7f0546a71c6b5e274b59f446a1d5cfaaffeacff8ac9db1aee1db9aeb8f6660232b0beb78bb191570d7573c1be4dbd05ac769f850e86"]insanely expensive now, with the TouchID built in... ugh!

Wow, that is expensive, I will stick with my Logitech mx keys mini

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Or because they were first (or at least the first to bring cut/copy/paste to a consumer graphical user interface). And they chose to add the CMD key to do these things.

When Microsoft came to do the same thing they didn't have the luxury of designing their own keyboard so they were stuck with the control key.

Which lead to unfortunate compromises like ctrl-c not working in the command window in Windows, because ctrl-c is generally used for interrupting running command line processes. A situation which is still there in the default command line environment in Windows 37 years later!

Before ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v it was even more wacky: shift-del, ctrl-ins, shift-ins.

Not to mention every text editor on MSDOS having completely different key combinations for cut/copy/paste. I still use the Wordstar ctrl-k, b | ctrl-k, k | ctrl-k c | ctrl-k v combinations when I'm editing text over on Linux (I never did get to grips with the nonsense that is vi, first thing I do on a new Linux install is to add the Joe text editor).

Curiously ctrl-x, ctrl-c, ctrl-v work in Microsoft apps on the Mac, alongside the standard CMD based ones.

Yes, they were the first.
I only used Wordstar a little bit, I don't remember much about it.
i will get used to it like the @ sing being on the number 2 key

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i will get used to it like the @ sing being on the number 2 key

Yeah, I switch between Mac, Windows, iPad/keyboard, and Linux machines. That moving @ sign is the worst one... my fingers automatically swap Ctrl/Cmd

The # key is the most inconvenient for me. (I do a lot of programming.) Especially when inside a VM.

Good use of copy/paste

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

The # key is the most inconvenient for me. (I do a lot of programming.) Especially when inside a VM.
[/quote

Wow, i did not realise that there is no # on the Mac keyboard, i had to do a search to find out how to do that.

Not when you are programming in C. You need to use # too often.

It is available on the Mac keyboard, just not as convenient as a dedicated key. And it takes a bit of trickery if using a Mac keyboard with Linux to set up a # key.

Originally the Mac was programmed in Pascal which doesn't (I think) need a hash key. And the hash is available on US keyboards.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

Not when you are programming in C. You need to use # too often.

Yep, #include <stdio.h> just for a start. And for comments in any shell scripts. The US Mac keyboard doesn't have this issue.

(I recall the 1984 Mac with the Localizer diskette that changed the keyboard, I think that was the start of no # for the UK !)

Luckily there is the excellent Karabiner-Elements if one wants to repurpose an existing key to be the # key, maybe the generally unused §/± key...

I wonder what percentage of Mac users ever need that key

https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org

Does that work for Linux running in a VM?

Probably, it remaps it at a fairly low level. I guess it is possible the virtualization of the keyboard might be at a lower level though.

Only way to know for sure it to try it (I don't have it installed, I did use it on a previous MacBook to map some keys when my Z and X keys started failing).