EE 4G PAYG Mobile Broadband

I found 4G to be pretty decent with EE but ultimately I missed my unlimited T-mobile data and switched back.

With EE on the outskirts of cities I can pull quite easily a good 30Mbps. The highest I got was 54Mbps. In the centre of cities it's much less. On Oxford Street, it was literally packed I was getting around 4Mbps, outside Selfridges I was getting 3Mbps. On 3G I could only get around 0.7Mbps in these areas...

On Vodafone 3G I was getting 2133ms ping and 0.1Mbps so EE was outperforming that by far on 3G and 4G.

In Westfield, where my 3G would not work at all (the network was that busy) & on 3G I couldn't even send a Whatsapp, 4G here gave me 7Mbps. So clearly 4G has it's advantages but in the city centre, yes it might be 5 times faster (as advertised) but 5 times faster than 0.7Mbps is only 3.5Mbps so it was still nothing to shout home about. On the whole it drained my battery faster and I was rapidly going through my 2Gb allowance.

I used to manage on 1Gb data a couple of years ago but I ate up 1.1Gb in under a week so it was a no brainer to head back to unlimited T-mobile.

The upload on the 4G was always over 10Mbps in all locations.

I would say if the 3G connections doing what you need, stick with it.

Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Aug-13 01:20:52)

Give it a go, sounds like you've carefully considered it.

I have personally had bad experiences with 3 and I wouldn't go back unless it was the only network offering a good deal (even then I'd probably just get ripped off and go elsewhere). I need a phone that works, a phone that can stay connected to calls as I drive and ride on trains, I cannot have it losing reception mid call, sadly 3 didn't fulfil that criteria. Good 3G coverage but it to often goes to No Service and having no 2G fallback is absolute pants. I was always being cut off mid way through important calls, constantly having to ring people back - only for the phone to cut me off again 2 minutes later when it lost service yet again.

It often said 'call failed' even though it claimed I had reception too. It also often made a really weird noise when I tried to make calls with low reception. It sounded like crazy interference. It just annoyed me.

It's extremely rare for me to get cut off with T-mobile and even rarer on o2 (in fact almost never). Although o2 is often 2G signal whereas T-mobiles virtually always 3G (so I personally prefer my T-mobile handset).

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 26-Aug-13 01:32:27)

Not a rip off. Everybody assumes 3 is the cheapest and that EE is much more expensive. Truth is often networks are all about the same if you shop around properly.

Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Aug-13 14:09:29)

Happens a lot, there's often only one LTE mast covering a large area whereas there can be multiple 3G masts around. So the LTE mast can end up slower. Also in a lot of places the masts do not have a fibre link direct to them just yet (so the signals go mast to mast which slows things down). Overtime there will be more masts that are LTE enabled and there will be more direct fibre links. Also LTE attracts the heavier users. As I said on Oxford Street in London I was barely seeing 3Mbps via LTE.

On other networks such as Vodafone and o2, as they are currently largely 2G networks, LTE will be a god send as it should get LTE to where their 2G currently reaches. So people will go from 2G in some areas to LTE.

Comparing it to 3 is a tough one, largely because 3 doesn't have the customer base using all the bandwidth. If 3 had the Orange T-mobile and EE customer base it would perform worse.

LTE isn't as amazing as everyone made it out.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 26-Aug-13 14:34:24)

Can you return it?

Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Aug-13 16:18:44)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

LTE isn't as amazing as everyone made it out.

Its the underneath restructure of the network that is the big change. It should hopefully (in 10 years!) give a much fairer distribution of capability. So essentially everyone in an area getting 10megabit rather than 1 person getting 15meg and the rest 1meg as we get on 3G today.

Edited by deleted (Mon 26-Aug-13 22:34:49)

Oh my lordy!! That's crazy, where are you? I found LTE was virtually always 20Mbps or greater but in city centres it was around your speed. I've never had a 3G speedtest that low on EE, it's virtually always 4Mbps+ apart from in the city centre at peak times.

I'd be extremely disappointed like you!!
The issue is likely to be that, as the 3G mast speedtest is so low, the area probably has loads of customers using 3G data quite heavily. This is likely to mean the 4G mast (assuming they share the same backhaul) is being affected by the 3G sites heavy usage. I think EE has a lot of upgrades to do with their backhaul. I guess it's only £60 and if you use the iPad out and about I'm sure the speeds will improve significantly in other areas.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Oh my lordy!! That's crazy, where are you? I found LTE was virtually always 20Mbps or greater but in city centres it was around your speed. I've never had a 3G speedtest that low on EE, it's virtually always 4Mbps+ apart from in the city centre at peak times.

On older phones/SIMs you still get the choices of T-Mobile or Orange, and I've seen low speeds such as that on Orange connections (234-33) but MUCH faster on T-Mobile (234-30). I read in PCPro that this autumn/winter EE are planning on switching off the former Orange network code (234-33) so everyone will use the former T-Mobile (234-30).

I assume the MBNL backbone that 3 and T-Mobile jointly built is better than the former France Telecom owned Orange network.

The only partial explanation for the ultra slow LTE is that only one cell site in your area has been upgraded so far and its struggling under the load

Don't forget your iPad will only support 1800mhz LTE, so if you want O2 or Voda you'll need a MiFi device or similar that supports 800mhz/2600mhz frequencies. Three should launch with 1800 and 800 support when they eventually do :-/

Here's some of my LTE speedtests in London and Sheffield

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/617402957
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/617396680
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/617389381

That's all I have on here currently. The fastest ones at kings cross London.
I had one much faster on my ipad

So same really it's a mixed bag, some fast some slow.

One LTE mast can easily cover an entire town as it can probably go upto 4 miles in every direction. So they are easily at capacity until others come along. Hence slow speeds...

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 26-Aug-13 23:08:07)

EE used to get around 7Mbps at kings cross but its always atleast 20 nowadays so slowly but surely it's improving.

I'm happy switching back to my t mobile 3G for now and in 18 months or so I will go back to 4G. By then I expect it'll be much better.

Please don't say this was in place of your home broadband?

I think the issue you are seeing is that currently EE are just trying to get LTE everywhere. This means they are upgrading the biggest masts - usually the 40m high ones. These cover literally miles in every direction, so they can get LTE coverage to an entire area with little upgrading.

As time goes on EE will upgrade the smaller sites and this will ease capacity. Eventually the LTE will be much better. I honestly think though nothing beats a home broadband for internet at home.

£30 for 30Mbps seems a lot though - new customers get it cheaper! I've got BT here and I get infinity for £15.99 now (had it a few years).

Edited by deleted (Tue 27-Aug-13 00:14:35)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Yes the 120 is £30 (£35 after promo) I believe mine is now £22.50 which to be honest is fair. If I had to pay for my sky it would be that for 8.

That's brilliant! I've got 80Mbps via sky for £30 and BT is dirt cheap now I've been with them a bit (work pays that though). I really loathe the virginmedia equipment though especially the superhub. I would rather have 8Mbps than virginmedia 100Mbps with that heap of junk...

There's nothing wrong as such, it's just that the local transmitter is probably under more load.

Also some masts are linked via microwaves and also until more 4G masts are built in areas we are nearing capacity very quickly.

The operators will have only LTE enabled the major macrocell towers.

Overtime more macrocell towers will become LTE enabled, as well as some micro cell towers. More LTE towers will get fibre upgrades. Some older masts are being used to repeat wirelessly the 4G service where they don't really meet spec (so this will be upgraded too).

The larger sites are often orange sites which historically are linked to backhaul quite badly but these are upgraded due to the coverage they give. So often they're pumping out LTE before backhaul is upgraded necessarily.

All operators are going to have this issue at first.

Even nowadays if you go into parts of a city you see sub 1Mbps speeds on the best HSPDA connection. I don't go around moaning that its 20 times slower than further out of the city.

The masts working fine it's just capacity constraints.

Have a look here. How far away is your nearest 20+ metre orange or T-mobile cell phone tower. You're looking for a major mast, not a tiny one.

http://sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 29-Aug-13 15:03:01)

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Aug-13 15:38:50)

Definitely interesting. I just got a call from EE actually (as I was asking to switch back to T-mobile). They gave me iPhone 5, unlimited minutes, unlimited tests, LTE with 2.5Gb data for £25 a month. Perhaps because they're literally giving away LTE to existing customers it's becoming extremely congested when there's not too many LTE masts.

You have plenty of masts in the area. I highly doubt whether any are LTE though.

In time it's likely that the T-mobile mast which is on the same site as the 3 mast will become LTE. It's not a large site though that will take a while.

I don't think you are connected to the Grey mast. It's only 14m high. I don't think they will have upgraded it.

I think the only likely LTE mast is the one at Cwn wood & even then I'm not sure... They are more likely to upgrade this T-mobile site at 25m than the orange site at 14m which needs new equipment to bring it upto MBNL standards & the 14m one isn't going to give huge coverage.

Here there is only one T-mobile site. Your 3 site might also hop between the Cwn wood one as well as the one you're assuming. Largely because the one you're assuming you are using has a fairly low transmit power (like all 3 masts seem to) which severely impacts its range, so the one a little further away with higher transmit powers likely to give similar coverage at your location. So room to room it may very well change masts dependant on where you are.

Also what is really crucial here is that Orange stopped supplying their mast information a few years ago. Looking at the coverage maps there's a lot of outdoor only signal. I get a feeling that the LTE is probably coming from a mast that's not on this site (built since they stopped reporting). It wouldn't surprise me if it was coming from the top of a pilon or something similar a few miles away at around 40m height with a transmit power as high as 35dBw (covering around 3-4 miles in all directions). This is the kind of LTE rollout currently. Those smaller masts all don't REALLY meet the usual LTE plans as they don't cover mass areas. You could pretty much cover the whole of Newport with LTE via 1 or 2 big masts. The masts I see on there look like the ones that'll get coverage overtime to 1) ease congestion and 2) Increase outdoor coverage. I don't think they are currently LTE though.

Looking at the coverage maps, even around all of the masts on this site, the LTE coverage shows quite low. If an LTE mast was there surely coverage would show high. It's a bit of a mystery where it's coming from for now.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 29-Aug-13 16:14:42)

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Aug-13 17:15:11)

It would make most sense for the CWM wood mast to be LTE. It's 25m so it's going to have ok range. LTE masts are usually around 30m though currently. A 14m mast is unlikely to be LTE currently. EE want max coverage.

At Beachwood park I have identified the LTE mast. I am 99% sure this is the LTE site (I've looked through some stuff and it's an almost definite LTE site. There's an Orange and T mobile site on the mast and the orange equipment was due for an upgrade on the 2G to bring it to Edge standards as well as LTE as far as I can tell). This would give this site 3 LTE transmissions all in opposite directions so it would give coverage for miles in all directions. The site also had it's maximum transmittable power increased to 35dBw.

This site will be on high priority for doubled speeds too as it will be giving such a huge coverage.

So at Beachwood Park I would bet my life this is the LTE transmission.
http://s24.postimg.org/yn63x9wzp/LTE_mast.png

Both site, the orange and T mobile will have been made into T mobile type transmitters with 4G enabled. 46 and 47 metres respectively.

This will also cover the whole of Newport centre.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 29-Aug-13 17:50:25)

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Aug-13 18:21:58)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Have a look here. How far away is your nearest 20+ metre orange or T-mobile cell phone tower. You're looking for a major mast, not a tiny one.

I suspect this is mine:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FERCtNGHl8M/UUIZ-zW3ExI/AA...

Sitefinder is inconclusive for T-Mobile and Orange data as they stopped supplying data in 2008 or before. However the site shows T-Mobile and 3 on a 31m high mast in the right place, and an Orange mast the other side of the playing field (Which doesn't exist, so I'm assuming is the same mast) with height 27m.

I can see this mast clearly out my window, not quite the view in that pic.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

There's a tower block there. No other masts visable that I can recall.

Nice source of power the roof of a tower block - and probably easy planning permission

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

What I find odd is that he signal at the bus station is worse than it is at home - and the bus station is LOS to the tower and not far away.

Does the bus station have a metal roof by chance? Or perhaps its too close and the angle of the transmitter - or the antennas aren't set to radiate in a circular pattern but are biased in a specific direction.

What I find odd is that he signal at the bus station is worse than it is at home - and the bus station is LOS to the tower and not far away.

Masts that give maximum range don't really work like that. The signal is likely to be stronger a little further from the mast than right next to it or directly below. That's just down to the radius of the transmission. So in the pub, assuming it's straight below, that might be worse than say 50m down the road for example.
The higher a mast, the more this occurs. So these LTE masts will definitely experience this phenomena. I live 70- 100m from a mast and standing next to it I get -70 on my iPhone, whereas in my house upstairs I get -60 (so a stronger signal, yet further away, a couple of streets away actually).

Also bus stations will contain two materials 1) Metal and 2) Concrete
Both of which are basically the death of wireless and will severely severely hinder the signals.

Then there's 3 transmitters, so in some areas you're not going to have a directly straight line signal to the transmitter which can severely reduce performance.

It's difficult to know where the optimal point is however a good way to check is to go onto your iPhone, go to make a call and enter *3001#12345#* press call.
Your signal changes to a number. -55 to -60 is around maximum signal and -120 is very bad. It will often hold onto -130 but below -120 data is unlikely to work well (if at all) and calls will be all over the place.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 29-Aug-13 19:23:13)

That looks like a good culprit. If you look there's a fair few transmitters on top which are likely to be LTE as that'll give really decent range. It's likely that orange is on the same mast and it fits in with the image (as the 2nd lot of cells are just below). Whether they would upgrade both I'm not sure. I'm drawn to think they would just upgrade the T-mobile ones as they're higher but it depends if there's enough to give a clear range all around. They could even turn off the Orange signal as part of optimisation.

This is the kind of issue EE is having. They may decide to turn off the orange transmission as it's lower down and not worth the investment. The T-mobile ones on top should give better signal... When optimisation occurs and the orange sites turned off no doubt one or two people are going to lose signal at home, just because they're unlucky and for whatever reason that T-mobile site doesn't get to them whereas the orange one below was angled slightly different and made it to them. For the most of us though it goes smoothly & usually there's enough masts around to keep this to a minimum.

EDIT: In most cases where it shows multiple masts in a confined space, they're usually on the same mast.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 29-Aug-13 19:31:43)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

That looks like a good culprit. If you look there's a fair few transmitters on top which are likely to be LTE as that'll give really decent range. It's likely that orange is on the same mast and it fits in with the image (as the 2nd lot of cells are just below). Whether they would upgrade both I'm not sure. I'm drawn to think they would just upgrade the T-mobile ones as they're higher but it depends if there's enough to give a clear range all around. They could even turn off the Orange signal as part of optimisation.

That makes sense, thanks. PCPro magazine said eventually the former Orange network code would be turned off, leaving just the former T-Mobile code but as both are branded EE nobody should notice. I wonder what network code (234-33 or 234-30) the 4G is using?

This is the kind of issue EE is having. They may decide to turn off the orange transmission as it's lower down and not worth the investment. The T-mobile ones on top should give better signal... When optimisation occurs and the orange sites turned off no doubt one or two people are going to lose signal at home, just because they're unlucky and for whatever reason that T-mobile site doesn't get to them whereas the orange one below was angled slightly different and made it to them. For the most of us though it goes smoothly & usually there's enough masts around to keep this to a minimum.

EDIT: In most cases where it shows multiple masts in a confined space, they're usually on the same mast.

Interesting stuff, I know people on O and T plans in the same town (a long way from this mast) who are all upset that signal levels have changed (for the worse) - so I'm pretty sure that what you suggest is happening. It will take a few months to get close to the coverage we had of two networks :-/

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Well I can't work out where it is. There are no masts anywhere near the pins on the map so they must be on that roof.

Interesting stuff, no idea what's going on there.

I've just bought from ebay a new unlocked Huawei E5776, so I'm thinking of going into my local EE shop to get a SIM card only PAYG mobile broadband tomorrow.... will let you know if I do any speed tests. (But then I'll be testing the WiFi reliability between my phone/laptop and the Mobile WiFi unit!).

Edited by deleted (Sat 31-Aug-13 15:41:18)

3s 4g rollout is painfully long and will not reach you anywhere near December. Just keep that in mind.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 31-Aug-13 17:29:41)

This is true. However a decent ultrafast phone would do until then. I want a phone with a replaceable battery I always buy them with them built in which means they are knackered in 6-12 months.

My iPhone battery lasts just long enough to get me from wall plug to wall plug, with the odd stop off in between.

Ill see where I am then. Still got the cash to save now even a 3 3GB ebay sim would give me 5mbps up so I don't have to stay with EE

Yep if your usage is low why the hell pay for an expensive VM connection. I'm heavy on Netflix, we have it on the TV now so I need my home broadband really.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

This is true. However a decent ultrafast phone would do until then. I want a phone with a replaceable battery I always buy them with them built in which means they are knackered in 6-12 months.

Lucky - testing with my Three PAYG SIM in my new 42mbps capable "mobile wifi" box - I get at best 10meg download and its VERY variable from 6 to 10, in about 3 locations (home, friends, and inbetween) and the best upload I saw was 3 meg, most of the time it was 1.5meg. Not been to EE store yet, will try next week.

The site could have been connected via microwave using older equipment which may have been replaced. A few LTE masts are put in place before this upgrade.
More backhaul (assuming it was always hard wired)
Or it finally got hard wired

Or whoever has been hammering it has finally gone away for a while.

Few possibilities

I am in cwmbran here is a speed test using alcatel y800 payg 4g mobile broadband

ee 4g speedtest

Edited by LA7 (Mon 02-Sep-13 16:55:32)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Not been to EE store yet, will try next week.

Picked up a PAYG SIM with 2GB of usage, and I reckon I've used half of it already just speed testing!!

In the office I get 1 bar on my HUAWEI unit and around 9/10megabit download and 11megabit upload. At home I get full signal and using the laptop I managed to see 47megabit download and 20 megabit upload - once.

Problem at home is most WiFi channels are in use, and the MiFi only does 2.4GHz, so its hard to tell if its a 4G or WiFi congestion issue.

One test a minute ago:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2940333656

My iPhone 5 connected to the same MiFi gets a lot less, I assume it can't cope with the WiFi congestion, and its just slowing down. The laptop (2012 MacBook Air) can. Shame nobody makes a MiFi with 5GHz support :-/

Edited by deleted (Mon 02-Sep-13 20:05:03)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

The new EE mifi things don't seem to need 5ghz they do well on 2.4 so I am told.

Yes they can, but at home I have real problems with 2.4Ghz WiFi as there are just too many other people using WiFi in my road :-/

Wow those are some speeds. You're Iphone 5 should do well mine used to max out at about 62mbps - my ipad does the same.

Yes, once my contract is up (nov) I'll have to seriously think about 4GEE, or wait a bit. I'm pretty sure Three won't launch in my area, I'm in a small town, not a city

've used up 1.9GB speed testing -

I have a solid plan for the future now - Stick with this for now - save up for a new phone which will be around Xmas to Feb 2014 and then get whatever Samsung flagship phone is ( or even S4) and then give 3 4G a go when it's out.

Good luck!

Also Newport and Cwmbran have not been upgraded to EE's double speed yet as some masts in cwmbran and newport have not has a fiber backhaul or if the site uses microwave the site have not had a giga microwave link upgade yet

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Cheers, I was told on PAYG it does not matter we don't get double speed. I had a contract on a 30 day sim only and that was 8 down 21 up all the time. i only get 10 up on PAYG

I wonder if EE is like O2 where voice SIMs get slower broadband than data SIMs. Would seem worth it to me.

I think with the double speeds you will still see improvements as the backhaul is likely to be upgraded and capacity.

Lots of LTE masts are still using poor microwave links which I think is probably the issue.

Just something else. Newports the only place getting LTE in Wales... I think that's only because Bristol has it. It's likely that currently your LTE is coming from Bristol via microwave links, so not actual hard wired. This should improve in time.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 03-Sep-13 11:27:31)

Edited by deleted (Tue 03-Sep-13 12:08:42)

Do you still pick up an orange signal?

If you select carriers & do a manual search.
On EE it will show EE (3G) which is t mobile and EE which is orange.
On orange EE(3G) is orange and EE is t mobile.

If you can still connect to the old orange signal it indicates that the orange mast will be getting LTE very soon (or it may already have).
All orange masts that were going to be decomissioned have been already. The remaining ones will be getting their orange equipment changed to t mobile standards for 3G and LTE so it'll become one giant T-mobile type network, the old orange signal will be rendered not connectable, although it may still show up in a network search at first. Trying to connect to it will just show no service.

In short if you can still connect to an orange signal it shows more work is yet to be done.

No the reason EE LTE is in Cardiff and Newport is Virgin media backhaul to some sites then those sites with Virgin backhaul connect to the other sites via a giga microwave link,

In Cwmbran the MBNL (Join 3/EE) site at Melbourne court greenmedow Cwmbran is in a area that has virgin media and is linked via virgin fibre backhaul then the mast is connect via microwave link to one other site in Cwmbran via Microwave and soon the rest of the MBNL sites will be linked to the site at Melbourne court via microwave backhaul,

Edited by LA7 (Tue 03-Sep-13 16:29:22)

My only gripe is that in plenty of areas they've upgraded to LTE before upgrading to gigabit microwave links. In time anyway...

The way O2 are doing it I assume is the same as EE
They used to backhaul sites individually to the operators main network
Nowadays they seem to be using a more multi point approach
So you have one main access point hard wired to the core network and then link all the other sites around via this over microwave.
It's cheaper, easier to deploy and faster.

I personally still prefer hard wired approaches in life.
Until all sites get 1 giga links speeds are suffering slightly & almost certainly backhauls lacking in some areas. I've had as poor as 0.6 Mbps on LTE in central London this week. Whatever they're doing its not cutting it right now.

I'm interested to see what happens overtime

Cwmbran also has cable broadband and some areas have FTTC where i live 1 miles from the town centre I have very slow adsl around 2-3 mb and no access to virgin cable both virgin and FTTC stop around 1/2 a mile away there are alot of area in cwmbran that do not have cable and have slow adsl due to long line distance from the exchange,

My friend lives have a mile away and has access to FTTC and virgin media

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Do you still pick up an orange signal?

Using the Field Test mode on the iPhone shows the network code (234-33 and 234-30). I recall that -30 is T-Mobile and -33 is Orange. I gather EE(4G) or EE(3G) is using -30 as well, as the -33 will be eventually turned off.

Ahh, here's the thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1832592

If you can still connect to the old orange signal it indicates that the orange mast will be getting LTE very soon (or it may already have).
All orange masts that were going to be decomissioned have been already. The remaining ones will be getting their orange equipment changed to t mobile standards for 3G and LTE so it'll become one giant T-mobile type network, the old orange signal will be rendered not connectable, although it may still show up in a network search at first. Trying to connect to it will just show no service.

In short if you can still connect to an orange signal it shows more work is yet to be done.

Interesting data - thanks!

My iPhone SIM has a strange programming (useful to me) that shows "EE" for T-Mobile 2G/3G and "T-Mobile Orange" for Orange 2G/3G signals. I noticed that if I get a "T-Mobile Orange" network name, then my 3G speeds are about 1meg, and on the "EE" network name (ie, T-Mobile) i get 5meg or more. Using Field Test confirms my findings with the network codes.

My area only went live with 4G at start of August (on coverage map) but friends across town have already noticed their signal (Orange brand customers) is noticably reduced. One is thinking of migrating to 3 (bad move in their home) and the other O2. :-/

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Do you still pick up an orange signal?

This is what I get on my T-Mobile contract SIM only (3g) phone, in the same place I had very good 4G yesterday:
http://prntscr.com/1p60re

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Do you still pick up an orange signal?

This is what I get on my T-Mobile contract SIM only (3g) phone, in the same place I had very good 4G yesterday:
http://prntscr.com/1p60re

Firstly you don't have the newest carrier settings as it should show EE and EE(3G).
In your case, as you're on T-mobile...
The T-mobile would show as EE(3G)
The T-mobile orange would show as EE.
Even if both were actually 3G. It displays the home network first as EE(3G).

Now, in time you will still find T-mobile Orange - but if you try to connect to it, so try clicking on it, you will see No service. Eventually the network T-mobile Orange will go completely leaving just T-mobile or EE(3G) on T-mobile.

If you can see T-mobile Orange and connect to it, it indicates an orange mast is in place and was kept there as the orange site is going to be 4G enabled. When the LTE upgrade takes place, at first you will still see the network but there will be no service, and with time you will not see the network at all.

In parts of Westminster you struggle to find an orange signal and where you do it's not connectable. In time it will go entirely.

This is good because currently to switch from an orange signal to a t-mobile signal, the connection has to physically drop. So say you're making a call on an Orange signal and go into an area with only T-mobile. As it stands your call would drop out whilst you physically switched networks. Once everything goes through there's going to be LTE and T-mobile type 3G and 2G only, so it'll be one network with no messy switching, meaning hopefully less dropped calls and a unified signal.

This is why EE is better than 3 signal wise (overall) because they kept Orange sites as well, in places MBNL sites didn't reach too well.

Some orange devices seem to be sticking to Orange signal & holding on too long before switching to a T-mobile signal. As orange sites are decommissioned or replaced with LTE this causes them to have bad signal when there's a brilliant T-mobile signal available. There's nothing that EE can really do about this as it's the device at fault. People using older carrier settings find issues as going onto T-mobile makes the device believe it's roaming onto a foreign network, so it's less likely to happen, their devices hold onto a weak orange signal before doing it... Those with newer EE carrier settings, their devices no longer see the other network as roaming and this somewhat solves the issue. The combination of the EE carrier settings and the smart-sharing works somewhat well but it's not perfect.

EE in time will have one network and no orange signal, at this point problem devices will be forced onto T-mobile as there will not even be a weak orange signal available. At this stage all problematic devices will be fine, although decommissioning of orange sites may cause some people to lose service entirely but that's not a large chunk by any means.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Firstly you don't have the newest carrier settings as it should show EE and EE(3G).

I thought that, but I have the same version as everyone else, I've even tried reloading the .ipcc file from the last carrier update iTunes offered me, but nothing changed. Its been like this since I got the nano SIM in Nov last year, and its survived 3 or 4 iOS updates. All my friends on T and O don't have it !

In your case, as you're on T-mobile...
The T-mobile would show as EE(3G)
The T-mobile orange would show as EE.
Even if both were actually 3G. It displays the home network first as EE(3G).

Ah-ha, that's how it works, thanks!

thanks!

Edited by jchamier (Tue 03-Sep-13 21:26:36)

Click settings - general - about

It should then check for the latest carrier settings and a message should come up asking you to update.

If it doesn't what does it say on that page after carrier:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Click settings - general - about

It should then check for the latest carrier settings and a message should come up asking you to update.

Nope, I've seen that prompt before, but I get nothing. I've rebooted/reset the device, and tried my SIM in another unlocked iPhone5 (my Dad's) and he has an Orange business SIM and he has EE all the time - mine came up the same as it does on my iPhone 5. I have carrier settings "EE 14.0"

If it doesn't what does it say on that page after carrier:

T-Mobile

but it still shows as EE top left. I quite like it, saves having to go into the Field Test to see what mode I'm on, and I suspect iOS 7 will fix it.

Edited by jchamier (Tue 03-Sep-13 21:47:53)

Might be sim specific then, definitely odd!

If you press phone
Dial *3001#12345#*
Click pdp context info
Click 0

Next to APN you should see everywhere
If you don't the carrier settings haven't actually applied behind the scenes correctly.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Next to APN you should see everywhere
If you don't the carrier settings haven't actually applied behind the scenes correctly.

Yes it shows everywhere (wasn't this general.t-mobile.uk before?) and I get a T-Mobile reverse dns name when I visit a show my IP site. (My Dad on Orange gets an Orange reverse dns). My 4G MiFi gets no reverse DNS but an originally orange owed IP according to this site's speed test and speedtest.net.

Yep as both networks show it does seem to indicate orange sites left (assuming both are connectable)...
Chances are some of those smaller orange sites near to you are getting LTE via microwave. The ones not so tall. To be honest they're probably already in the process.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 04-Sep-13 03:54:28)

I'd be very interested to know the source of that knowledge...

All that means is your handset can see RF from both a legacy T-Mobile cell site and a legacy Orange cell site.

Nothing to do with upgrades etc... as purported elsewhere

In reply to a post by bookey:

All that means is your handset can see RF from both a legacy T-Mobile cell site and a legacy Orange cell site.

Nothing to do with upgrades etc... as purported elsewhere

Yep understood

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Sep-13 22:46:55)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Gave up on EE got a S4 on 3 so I am ready for 4G and getting nearly 20 down on Ultrafast

3 have told me I can unlock it also as I have been with them since they started. Which means I now have a phone with will do LTE 800/850/900/1800/2100/2600 so interesting for the future..

Nice! Sounds like my Huawei E5776 which does LTE 800/900/1800/2100/2600, which should do for any EU travel. (need 700 for USA but its hard to find a provider who will sell a mobile data SIM over there).

We might one day need 700mhz, but Ofcom are saying ~10 years; and that's to try and harmonise with US/Canada LTE - and by then they will have moved on!

Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Sep-13 01:52:06)

Probably for the best!

Who knows in a couple of years I may switch back to 3, I was last with them a couple of years ago.

EE LTE isn't impressing me speed wise.

Those 3 speeds are beating the sky line - perhaps tether constantly & remove the home bb. Assuming its not shared between a family.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 09-Sep-13 02:28:07)

Ah that makes sense!
What's the sky line going to then?

Ahh so will you be keeping the Virgin line?

Get a quote here first http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/reuse_and_recycle they're often better than others.

Hows the s4 compared to the iPhone? I've used iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4s and iPhone 5. I've considered switching over numerous times but 90% of people I need to talk to have iMessage and I'm extremely happy on iPhone. I just 'feel' like something out there may be better & perhaps I'm over sucked into the Apple community. Apples let me down lately, airplay sucks, their airport express isn't great, their lightning port annoys me & they've not fixed my macbook properly after 2 repairs hehe.

Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Sep-13 04:25:34)

Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Sep-13 17:57:35)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

SO what's the mifi thing you have like?

If you're asking me, I'm quietly impressed - but the problem is the standard WiFi problem in many areas (not enough channels) so on the laptop I've used the usb cable.

With talks that Three just walked away from the network sharing deal with EE seems like 3 are going to be in a weaker position and left on 800 and 1800 unless they " do their own spectrum" as they quote this week.

Any links on that?

I used up my 4G backing up to Google Drive. With the download so poor and the upload decent that seemed the logical way to solve it. I am glad it was PAYG this time. Sims in landfill shortly

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Why does everything have to be proved with a link? Can't people google this for themselves.?

As you wish

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/ee-three-4g-spe...

More because I was surprised (given they both own 50% of MBNL each) - and I've not seen it on any of the bigger tech sites.

Whoever ends up with what I don't mind. I have a phone which someone else gave me when they upgrade their 3 sim and mine runs out in a few months so I have an unlocked phone that will do 700/ 800 / 850 / 900 / 1700/ 1800 / 2100 / 2600.

let the battle continue!

Yep, EE or Three are the only contenders for me, as Voda and O2's fall back networks (outside of 4G) are currently so poor as to be non existent for me

I doubt you will get 3 4G until 2014 - 2015

I expect 3 or 4 cities in December
Manchester
London
Birmingham
Reading
Nottingham possibly

3 don't have the customer base or profits to roll out quickly. It'll be a while.

Newports not going to be in the initial rollout

Ahh fair play I was just making a guess Honestly at 20Mbps 3G I doubt 4G will be massively better.

I think EE needs some time, we are at the start of the 4G rollout.

Ultimately EE has loads of spectrum, lots of masts, an accelerated rollout, a huge customer base & a strong 2G and 3G network to fall back onto. It's going to take time to upgrade backhaul especially to the older Orange sites still in use. Once this is done and the sites are all upgraded to giga links & backhaul at the main site is sufficient the network will be flying ahead. In terms of the spectrum EE has it gives them the potential to be on par with the fastest LTE networks worldwide so they're planning ahead right. Right now it's not great though but it has to get better.

Even in London with the doubled speeds, plenty of masts still haven't got giga links so are stuck at slow speeds, one of the LTE sites is pulling an average of 3Mbps but once giga goes in the average estimate is 19 Mbps. So that'll be a huge improvement overnight.

Unlimited data would be nice but unrealistic given the EE rollout.

3 have a very strong 3G network and it's not congested like all the other networks 3G, largely down to the customer base being smaller & investment in the latest 3G. Put 27 million customers onto 3 and the network would be crippled.

For now 3 is a great option.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 09-Sep-13 23:43:02)

It makes sense for 3 to offer unlimited data compared with the other networks.

With wireless spectrum there's limited bandwidth.

3 may install 2 masts in an area to cover 1000 people lets say.
This is 500 people per mast.
o2 may install 3 masts in an area to cover 4,000 people. If o2 install any more masts there would be significant interference between the sites so they become restricted with the 3 masts in place.
That would be 1333 people per mast. So many more than 3.

3 can offer unlimited data as their masts not got too many customers using it & there is plenty of spare bandwidth left.

o2 on the otherhand need to keep data usage at a minimum as otherwise the network will be crippled. o2 cannot install more sites as this introduces interference between sites & no matter how much backhaul they have the wireless technology becomes a limit.

It's kind of like having a 80Mbps fibre connection with a 54Mbps router.
With 5 customers using the 54Mbps wireless router it'll perform ok.
Put 20 customers onto it and it'll slow down massively.
Install more routers on the same frequency you introduce interference
Increase the backhaul to 160Mbps, it'll make no odds as the wireless routers restricting. It's the same with masts.

So the bigger networks face bigger challenges. Perhaps 3 is happy with its limited customer base as it means they can keep existing customers happy. Get 4 times the customer base and they simply could not offer that all you can eat data.

EE have done well to buy plenty of spectrum so they can limit this affect somewhat. On the contray o2 will have big problems with their rollout covering large areas (speeds will suffer).

EDIT: this is my somewhat limited understanding anyway from the EE network planning guy who I've known since school

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 09-Sep-13 23:59:04)

Beats the competition a fair bit that's for sure !

Edited by deleted (Tue 10-Sep-13 00:51:48)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

EDIT: this is my somewhat limited understanding anyway from the EE network planning guy who I've known since school

Heh, that is pretty similar to the post I've just written on the other thread - and I don't know any EE people, just deduced it by reading Wikipedia ! LOL.

Well that's annoying - almost certainly could have been avoided. Never seen a site do that before for a mobile.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Is this cool or not?

Or they can't afford enough web capacity because they're giving everyone AYCE data

Everyones using their all-you-can-eat data to load the 3 store.

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

How are you getting on with your Mifi unit?

It works well around here (really well in some places)., I've used up my credit and won't bother topping up at the moment until I need it

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Mine was a real slow chore to chew through it - I've kept the sim just incase but put it in a box with the rest of my phone stuff.

My MiFi is an unlocked unit (not bought from EE) so I can use it with any of my SIMs here, for various countries.

In an area last week I was seeing 3Mbps in central London on LTE- extremely populated

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/640589109

So the upgrades are definitely making a difference & a major one at that.
I was expecting to see the same pathetic speeds again

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

In an area last week I was seeing 3Mbps in central London on LTE- extremely populated
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/640589109
So the upgrades are definitely making a difference & a major one at that.
I was expecting to see the same pathetic speeds again

Is that the same area you were getting 3Mbps? That's a nice jump!

In my area on the 4G network I get IP addresses labelled as "Orange" by speedtest, but yours was labelled T-Mobile - I wonder if EE will get all the IP addresses renamed to "EE" at RIPE

Yep it was where I was seeing 3 Mbps a week ago and it was really slow . Sudden jump.

It's between 45 and 80 now .