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Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Mon 29-Dec-14 21:40:15
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Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[link to this post]
 
Hi All

I've mapped the changes to Three's planned 4G coverage for "end of 2015".

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zOAnXJFLQHC...

As you can see there are lots of places that will get reduced coverage. It seems that Three plan to fill in some gaps in their existing coverage without expanding out to more remote areas like Kent...

All info came from Three's own coverage plan page http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/When_will_I_get_4G

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Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 29-Dec-14 21:41:45
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
EE has 4G in Canterbury now too... smile

Paul
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Mon 29-Dec-14 21:45:15
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
Yeah I know but only "single-speed" and outdoor only coverage... not worth even trying.

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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 29-Dec-14 22:15:21
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 5km:
Yeah I know but only "single-speed" and outdoor only coverage... not worth even trying.


I've managed 25mbps download and 10mbps upload on "single speed" which beats Three's 4g here (which managed only 10 down, 5 up).

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User fibreplease
(learned) Tue 30-Dec-14 00:12:25
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, thanks. I did wonder about the possibility of switching to Three as they had stated that LTE would be coming to Yeovil by the end of 2014. Turns out they have dumped plans for pretty much all of Somerset now instead!

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Standard User jroadley
(regular) Tue 30-Dec-14 02:20:19
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: fibreplease] [link to this post]
 
That's shocking.

Glad I migrated.
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Tue 30-Dec-14 08:39:37
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jroadley] [link to this post]
 
I need to point out to everyone that this misses some towns, mainly ones that were enabled early and therefore never part of the 2014 end-of-year plan. These towns will likely be the "50 main towns"

But even with these missed from my map as green dots it still doesn't paint a good picture. If I can find the list of the "50 main towns" I will add these.

I'm also considering adding a note for "New" towns that are actually already live.

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Standard User tthom
(committed) Tue 30-Dec-14 11:55:23
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Yea I was going to say that mate,

a good few parts of glasgow are enabled for 4G

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Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 30-Dec-14 14:25:06
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Original plans:
http://www.itpro.co.uk/networking/20600/three-bring-...

Of course, there is no guarantee that those were done either. I noted that Hull was one of the "removed" ones from your list ... yet appears on the plans above; not done then either, I guess.
Standard User brandscill
(committed) Wed 31-Dec-14 12:59:22
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
It's a shame they've scaled this back so much and not made any announcement.

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Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Wed 31-Dec-14 13:14:56
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Good spot for Hull! I've changed Hull to "Dropped" and added a note.

FYI I updated the map since originally posting. Initial roll out towns have been added, I found 47 although that is now 46 with Hull moved to Dropped.

I also checked the dropped towns and found 8 to be enabled so they are now "Enabled 2014".

I have started going through the "Unchanged" towns so that I can mark these as "Enabled 2014" or "Planned for 2015". ... I got bored checking these so haven't finished or uploaded the new data yet.

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Standard User tallseabird
(committed) Thu 15-Jan-15 14:45:47
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
I have recently moved to Three not so much for their 4G as to try the 3G (DC‑HSDPA) they talk about - it's good!

However, I live in Antrim which has been changed to 'Dropped' but on the coverage checker for BT41 4NH I get this message

"Work is planned in this area on the dates shown below. This may affect your normal network service, but should only last for about 6-8 hours. From 28/01/2015 to 28/01/2015, from 27/01/2015 to 27/01/2015, from 26/01/2015 to 26/01/2015."

It previously listed 13/14 January as well - does this not imply that 4G is coming. Obviously it could be any work but for 3-5 days worth of work would it not be wasteful to not include a 4G upgrade?
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Thu 15-Jan-15 14:56:14
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: tallseabird] [link to this post]
 
The checker should say coming soon if coming in the next 3 months so I doubt this is work to upgrade to 4G.

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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Jan-15 18:40:53
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 5km:
The checker should say coming soon if coming in the next 3 months so I doubt this is work to upgrade to 4G.

Could easily be preparation work, such as concrete base being installed, or installing empty cabinets ready for new hardware once the hardware is available and the backhaul network is available.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User Pedrostech
(newbie) Thu 15-Jan-15 23:32:32
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Three 4G speeds in the one or two tiny areas of Guildford that can get it are around 8mbps symmetric. For some reason, last time I tested (end of 2014), there were two trasnmitters outputting: Woodbridge Meadows and Guildford Exchange, but the Guildford exchange was operating at massively reduced power ~50db below the DC-HSDPA. So much for the coverage they show on their map!

EE Single speed consistently gets me 20-30mbps and double speed gets 90mbps regularly. On the 350 EE samples I've done, average speed comes out about 35mbps. I'll have to 'translate' the data a bit before I comment much more though!
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Feb-15 07:13:04
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Pedrostech] [link to this post]
 
They have shown 3 months for 4G in Belfast got quite a while now... not really complaining as their 3G H+ network is fantastic..

http://s1.postimg.org/fq2dwoev3/image.png


The upload is poor though compared to 4G

Standard User Pedrostech
(newbie) Sun 15-Feb-15 10:08:44
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
That's better than I see on good vodafone 4G in uncongested areas!

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html... that test was one of the lower ones, but the highest I've seen is 35 down 5 up!
Standard User BuckleZ
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Feb-15 10:49:35
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Pedrostech] [link to this post]
 
Three are great even on 3G H+ here in N.Ireland

Standard User stuorguk
(member) Sun 15-Feb-15 11:37:49
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: brandscill] [link to this post]
 
Maybe they have scaled it back due to the possible tie-up with O2. If those companies merge, then upgrading in some areas will be an expense they don't need to make.
Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 15-Feb-15 13:24:01
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: stuorguk] [link to this post]
 
They would still have a benefit from upgrading overlapping areas as they could then use LTE-A

Paul
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 15-Feb-15 14:38:16
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: BuckleZ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
The upload is poor though compared to 4G

Three's 3G is often better than their 4G.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-Feb-15 08:59:37
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
The upload is poor though compared to 4G

Three's 3G is often better than their 4G.


Think that has a lot to do with Three's target average speed for 4G (12mb/s).

They are apparently more interested in coverage than speed, which I find quite amusing as their coverage is patchy.

-

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Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 16-Feb-15 23:12:02
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by BuckleZ:
The upload is poor though compared to 4G

Three's 3G is often better than their 4G.

Three dimension the backhaul to favour 3G as that bearer still has the bulk of the traffic, they can change this on the fly though if cell loading shows a regular growth in 4G enabled users and less 3G traffic.

Paul
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 17-Feb-15 07:46:50
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bookey:
Three dimension the backhaul to favour 3G as that bearer still has the bulk of the traffic, they can change this on the fly though if cell loading shows a regular growth in 4G enabled users and less 3G traffic.

Interesting the backhaul is sized for each type of traffic. Thanks.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User nemeth782
(member) Fri 20-Feb-15 10:45:06
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Bear in mind....

3 want to buy O2.

If 3 buy O2, they get O2's 4G coverage obligation. Ofcom might also take some of their 4G spectrum away, as they forced EE to sell some when Orange and Tmob merged.

Given that, it probably makes little sense for 3 to rollout 4G rapidly right now when the O2 merge may change things and 3's 3G speed is actually good.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Feb-15 16:53:13
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: nemeth782] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
Bear in mind....

3 want to buy O2.

If 3 buy O2, they get O2's 4G coverage obligation. Ofcom might also take some of their 4G spectrum away, as they forced EE to sell some when Orange and Tmob merged.

Given that, it probably makes little sense for 3 to rollout 4G rapidly right now when the O2 merge may change things and 3's 3G speed is actually good.


a) O2's "coverage obligation" doesn't specify technology, so they can use 3G UMTS service.
b) Three aren't buying O2 - its their owners Hutchison who are buying. What Hutchison then do is unknown.
c) Ofcom may or may not require spectrum to be sold as Three and O2 combined still don't have as much spectrum as the other two (Vodafone or EE). EE was forced to sell spectrum becuase of the sheer quantity they had.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 20-Feb-15 19:34:47
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by nemeth782:
Bear in mind....

3 want to buy O2.

If 3 buy O2, they get O2's 4G coverage obligation. Ofcom might also take some of their 4G spectrum away, as they forced EE to sell some when Orange and Tmob merged.

Given that, it probably makes little sense for 3 to rollout 4G rapidly right now when the O2 merge may change things and 3's 3G speed is actually good.


a) O2's "coverage obligation" doesn't specify technology, so they can use 3G UMTS service.
b) Three aren't buying O2 - its their owners Hutchison who are buying. What Hutchison then do is unknown.
c) Ofcom may or may not require spectrum to be sold as Three and O2 combined still don't have as much spectrum as the other two (Vodafone or EE). EE was forced to sell spectrum becuase of the sheer quantity they had.


The coverage obligation on O2 does denote 4G coverage, also it would be a damn site easier in 800mhz than any other spectrum they hold. EE has publicly announced that they plan to exceed the O2 coverage requirement by the end of this year and Vodafone have commented they expect to do the same but have not provided a timeframe.

If I was Hutchinson I would keep the Three RAN, enable roaming between the two RANs then shift the UMTS spectrum from O2 to Three to support 3 and 4 carriers, which would boost capacity by about 60% on the UMTS stack. I would then look to migrate the O2 GSM spectrum to the software defined radios in the LTE based radio controllers they Three are deploying. The I would look to close down the O2 LTE RAN and migrate the spectrum across the (what would now be) the legacy Three network.

They would be closer to EE but no 2600mhz for LTE capacity, or any mid band holding in 1800mhz well except the sliver that EE had to divest to Three.

Paul
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Feb-15 21:03:48
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, what I had read elsewhere - probably wrong - had commented that the requirement wasn't for 4G coverage but for a certain speed??

Like your idea on how Huch could merge the assets, that would leave the legacy O2 network using the 2G GSM spectrum network for voice, with the legacy Three network using all 3G UMTS spectrum, and also the Three network using the combined LTE spectrum.

They'd surely need to buy some more spectrum for that many users wouldn't they?

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 21-Feb-15 16:11:46
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Interesting, what I had read elsewhere - probably wrong - had commented that the requirement wasn't for 4G coverage but for a certain speed??

<snipped>

They'd surely need to buy some more spectrum for that many users wouldn't they?


It's a coverage requirement with a minimum of 2Mbps speed, but this is being measured through the expected signal strength not by real speed tests.
EE speed test on 4G signal strength of -115 dBm
Ping - 49ms
Download - 31.99 Mbps
Upload - 5.24 Mbps
Cell site is 1.7km away


Spectrum wise I know the split of complete spectrum holding and market holding.

Operator / Spectrum / Market (%)
EE / 36 / 34
Vodafone / 28 / 28
O2 / 15 / 27
Three / 12 / 11
BT / 9 / 0

As you can see EE have slight headway in the spectrum, Vodafone is parity, O2 is shocking as no headway on a already congested network, Three is running around parity and BT is the dark horse with spectrum holding but no customers using it.

If the EE / BT and O2 / Three weddings take place it will look like.

Operator / Spectrum / Market (%)
EE + BT / 45 / 34
Vodafone / 28 / 28
O2 + 3 / 27 / 38

O2 + 3 would be the largest player in the pure mobile space but have the least amount of spectrum, once customers realise that other operators offer more then I can see them moving operators.

EE + BT would still be the biggest telco but not biggest in pure mobile, but I am sure EE and BT management plan to change that!

In short, yes O2 and Three need more spectrum but there is none currently for sale...

Note: For those who don't already know, I am employed by EE, but all comments posted are my own and not that of my employer.

Paul

Edited by bookey (Sat 21-Feb-15 16:12:44)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 21-Feb-15 17:28:49
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bookey:
O2 + 3 would be the largest player in the pure mobile space but have the least amount of spectrum, once customers realise that other operators offer more then I can see them moving operators.

That will be interesting to watch. Do people buy for speed or for any connectivity. I still don't understand how peole think todays 3G performance on O2 and Vodafone is acceptable.

EE + BT would still be the biggest telco but not biggest in pure mobile, but I am sure EE and BT management plan to change that!

I can't see BT buying the current number 1 and not wanting to maintain that position, but anything is possible.

In short, yes O2 and Three need more spectrum but there is none currently for sale...

Maybe 3500mhz eventually; but hardly any handset support.

Note: For those who don't already know, I am employed by EE, but all comments posted are my own and not that of my employer.

Thanks for posting your obviously well informed comments smile

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 21-Feb-15 20:48:06
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by bookey:
O2 + 3 would be the largest player in the pure mobile space but have the least amount of spectrum, once customers realise that other operators offer more then I can see them moving operators.

That will be interesting to watch. Do people buy for speed or for any connectivity. I still don't understand how people think todays 3G performance on O2 and Vodafone is acceptable.


The more people take smartphones and use them for more than voice is when people will realise having a strong 2G signal showing Edge / GPRS is dire, and they need a minimum of 3G for the phone to 'work' 4G preferred of course.
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by bookey:
EE + BT would still be the biggest telco but not biggest in pure mobile, but I am sure EE and BT management plan to change that!

I can't see BT buying the current number 1 and not wanting to maintain that position, but anything is possible.


Could not possibility comment!

In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by bookey:
In short, yes O2 and Three need more spectrum but there is none currently for sale...

Maybe 3500mhz eventually; but hardly any handset support.


Problem with 3500Mhz is O2 and 3 only have 800Mhz that they can use for LTE (OK 3 has a small amount of 1800Mhz) the coverage gap between 800Mhz and 3500Mhz is large, a 3500Mhz cell is only liable to be 500m-1km in size, so will only work in dense urban high demand locations, and will require a cell site estate that is dense also.
Services like this with Virgin and Arqiva - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/02/virgin-... will become dependant services for O2 and 3 to build a more dense urban network.

Paul
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Feb-15 12:10:44
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bookey:
The more people take smartphones and use them for more than voice is when people will realise having a strong 2G signal showing Edge / GPRS is dire, and they need a minimum of 3G for the phone to 'work' 4G preferred of course.


Agreed; and given the amount of money Vodafone are throwing at their network, their 4G should be okay for a while. My office has just enabled 4G on our work accounts, which should hopefully mean getting emails through instead of 'no data' on 2G wink

Could not possibility comment!

smile

Problem with 3500Mhz is O2 and 3 only have 800Mhz that they can use for LTE (OK 3 has a small amount of 1800Mhz) the coverage gap between 800Mhz and 3500Mhz is large, a 3500Mhz cell is only liable to be 500m-1km in size, so will only work in dense urban high demand locations, and will require a cell site estate that is dense also.
Services like this with Virgin and Arqiva - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/02/virgin-... will become dependant services for O2 and 3 to build a more dense urban network.


Interesting - hadn't seen that article from Virgin Media Business. Arqiva will want to run their site-share scheme and sell capacity to the telcos I assume. I thought 2600 would end up deployed like that.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 22-Feb-15 14:25:43
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Maybe 3500mhz eventually; but hardly any handset support.

2.3GHz is in the process of being rearranged to free up some spectrum. These plans involve removing most of the current amateur allocation later this year.

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 22-Feb-15 14:58:48
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Maybe 3500mhz eventually; but hardly any handset support.

2.3GHz is in the process of being rearranged to free up some spectrum. These plans involve removing most of the current amateur allocation later this year.


LTE Band 40 - if that's TDD then the iPhone 6 can support it, but wonder how many other handsets. Not much use if you have to persuade your customers to upgrade phones _again_ smile

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 22-Feb-15 16:44:32
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Maybe 3500mhz eventually; but hardly any handset support.

2.3GHz is in the process of being rearranged to free up some spectrum. These plans involve removing most of the current amateur allocation later this year.


I'll take the 40Mhz of 2.3Ghz please, would provide a good overlay to existing cells where as placed for 3G coverage in 2.1Ghz.

Paul
Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 23-Feb-15 10:20:21
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I wouldn't get too excited about Vodafone from my experiences of the network.

I was expecting great things of 800Mhz. The reality was Three and EE we're still better for speed and coverage, even in buildings.

Disappointing really.

-

BT BroadbandInfinity 2
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 23-Feb-15 19:02:43
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
I wouldn't get too excited about Vodafone from my experiences of the network.
I was expecting great things of 800Mhz. The reality was Three and EE we're still better for speed and coverage, even in buildings.Disappointing really.


If Vodafone build enough new masts then they have the finances to compete with EE, but with only the existing mast locations and using 800mhz spectrum they'll have a "good" network but not an "amazing". The other two could be just "okay" or "poor".

It will take a few years to shake out; and most people won't notice - just look how many people are still on O2 due to the iPhone exclusive, and assume all 3G is the same. (fools).

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 03-Mar-15 05:56:08
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
That will be interesting to watch. Do people buy for speed or for any connectivity. I still don't understand how peole think todays 3G performance on O2 and Vodafone is acceptable.


and three?

considering O2 is faster than three half the time, is odd you missed them out.

Three performance is hideous around here, (alongside O2 now tho, but O2 was at least ok up until about a year ago)

To me EE is the only mobile provider who has built a half decent network, everyone else seems to have bled their networks dry.

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 03-Mar-15 06:07:14
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Pedrostech] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pedrostech:
Three 4G speeds in the one or two tiny areas of Guildford that can get it are around 8mbps symmetric. For some reason, last time I tested (end of 2014), there were two trasnmitters outputting: Woodbridge Meadows and Guildford Exchange, but the Guildford exchange was operating at massively reduced power ~50db below the DC-HSDPA. So much for the coverage they show on their map!

EE Single speed consistently gets me 20-30mbps and double speed gets 90mbps regularly. On the 350 EE samples I've done, average speed comes out about 35mbps. I'll have to 'translate' the data a bit before I comment much more though!


dude I am on EE double speed, but how do I tell which I am using? someone told me double speed is for london only, but EE's website says its in many areas so am confused. I do have a LTE-A phone if thats relevant.

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Standard User brandscill
(committed) Tue 03-Mar-15 07:19:56
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
That's true if you're in EE 4G area but I've had no end of trouble with their 3G network.

Post Office ADSL 4mbps
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Mar-15 07:30:58
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
and three?
considering O2 is faster than three half the time, is odd you missed them out.
Three performance is hideous around here, (alongside O2 now tho, but O2 was at least ok up until about a year ago)


Around here O2 and Vodafone have been consistently slow - around 1.5 to 3megabit. Their 3G is speeding up now that 4G has launched and improved backhaul in place. Three in comparison on 3G has normally been over 10meg; sometimes 20. Their 4G by comparison is often only 15meg , but lower latency.

Three is usually better than O2 when you drive around the country, as no useless GPRS anywhere, but in towns their speed was suddenly much slower than before when EE was fine.

To me EE is the only mobile provider who has built a half decent network, everyone else seems to have bled their networks dry.


I think Three may be overloaded in areas - can be seen by them stopping unlimited tethering. EE has managed capacity better, as you'd hope from a network with 20m subscribers, compared to the 9 or 10m on Three.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed

Edited by jchamier (Tue 03-Mar-15 07:33:03)

Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Mar-15 09:21:27
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Based on the EE coverage map.
Single speed 4G - Blue
Double speed 4G - Yellow

LTE-A - Not showing on the coverage map as yet, but currently only within the M25 (for now.)

Paul
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 03-Mar-15 17:57:04
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
dude I am on EE double speed, but how do I tell which I am using? someone told me double speed is for london only, but EE's website says its in many areas so am confused. I do have a LTE-A phone if thats relevant.


You need to be on a plan with double speed mentioned, (or on SIM only with more than 4GB data) and ALSO in a double speed area on the map. Technically that seems to be a combination of 2x20mhz spectrum (at 1800) with some enhanced backhaul.

http://coverage.ee.co.uk - enter your own postcode, then click the 4G section on the left and the map will display green for 4G and yellow for double speed 4G only.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 04-Mar-15 15:45:04
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
yeah I am in a double speed area according to that checker, I checked before ordering else I wouldnt have ordered it.

So double speed 4g on EE is nothing to do with lte-a? http://ee.co.uk/ee-and-me/network/4gee/4gplus ?

Note also EE shipping s5 lte-a phones.

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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 04-Mar-15 23:00:37
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
So double speed 4g on EE is nothing to do with lte-a? http://ee.co.uk/ee-and-me/network/4gee/4gplus ?


Correct. Lte-a is only available with Extra tarrif in the covered area. Sim only can't get extra but can see faster than 30 Mbps which is double speed.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Thu 05-Mar-15 14:42:39
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I am referring to the double speed that is linked to the extra tariff.

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Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 05-Mar-15 15:08:17
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I'm with you on that.

O2 and Vodafone are nowhere near as quick as 3, outdoors, in the majority of areas I have been too - but I rarely go to big cities. Rurally, you will end up on Edge or GPRS on VF and O2, where as you won't on 3 and EE. In London, I noticed 3 were quite slow. At Euston I struggled to get more than 4mb/s on 3 4G.

Internally, it's a different situation though. 3G900Mhz can penetrate buildings better and I have seen speeds of 9mb/s on Vodafone 3G (900mhz) indoors, where 3 and EE have No Service / 2G.

I know in urban areas where Vodafone have rolled out 4G, they score well on rootmetrics. Vodafone also won the 'monopoly board' network test in London which included all the major networks.

I've yet to try a 2600Mhz device on Vodafone but I have heard in London, the speeds are pretty impressive.

-

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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 05-Mar-15 19:54:53
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I am referring to the double speed that is linked to the extra tariff.

Sorry, terminology is crucial.

EE use the term "double speed" only for one thing on the website, which seems to be (by deducation) speeds higher than 30mbps in pretty much all areas - but more likely in areas in the yellow shading on the map.

People who buy handset contracts and choose the 'extra' option have access to the 4G+ LTE-A which is faster again. SIM only is limited to "double speed" and can't currently access 4G+ as no "extra" on SIM only.

Yes, SIM only customers are second class citizens, and it makes no sense. I emailed EE about this.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 05-Mar-15 19:58:51
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
O2 and Vodafone are nowhere near as quick as 3, outdoors, in the majority of areas I have been too - but I rarely go to big cities. Rurally, you will end up on Edge or GPRS on VF and O2, where as you won't on 3 and EE. In London, I noticed 3 were quite slow. At Euston I struggled to get more than 4mb/s on 3 4G.


In north east scotland where I've just been for a business trip, Vodafone only has GPRS. No 3G in Inverness, or along the coast until you get to Aberdeen. EE and Three (MBNL) both have 3G pretty much the entire length of the A96. In Inverness city centre EE now has 4G.

Internally, it's a different situation though. 3G900Mhz can penetrate buildings better and I have seen speeds of 9mb/s on Vodafone 3G (900mhz) indoors, where 3 and EE have No Service / 2G.


If EE has 2G then they will have 4G shortly, but yes, 900mhz has good indoor penetration, which is why all networks have 800mhz allocation. However 3G900 at 9mbps is impressive, normally its about 1 to 2 mbps due to loading and limited spectrum allocated. Bulk of 3G is at 2100mhz for all networks. Vodafone and O2 have less masts so they have problems with indoor coverage at 2100, whereas EE and Three do better by physically being closer to the user. Mid 90s investment by Orange and T-mobile paid off.

I know in urban areas where Vodafone have rolled out 4G, they score well on rootmetrics. Vodafone also won the 'monopoly board' network test in London which included all the major networks.


It is unclear if that may have been down to the fact that Vodafone still charge a higher price for 4G, where O2 have now bundled it to many people, and EE had then around 7million and now has more than 8million customers on 4G.

I've yet to try a 2600Mhz device on Vodafone but I have heard in London, the speeds are pretty impressive.


Probably due to less users, until Vodafone sort out their pricing - which given recent advertisments for SIM only they might have done.

plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - 80/20 - Summer/dry sync 55/9.4, Winter/wet sync 52/9.1
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - BQM - Summer PN speed - Winter PN speed
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 06-Mar-15 13:04:56
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
It is unclear if that may have been down to the fact that Vodafone still charge a higher price for 4G, where O2 have now bundled it to many people, and EE had then around 7million and now has more than 8million customers on 4G.

Almost all new Vodafone price plans have 4G included. 4G access is gradually finding its way lower down the range. Taking SIM only as an example, when 4G first launched you had to have a price plan with unlimited voice, unlimited texts and more than 1GB of data per month to have access to 4G. 4G became available on new unlimited voice, unlimited texts and 1GB data last year, and it is now available on the 900 minutes voice, unlimited texts and 500MB data plan. It's only the entry level 300 minutes voice, 500 texts and 250MB data plan that is 3G only.

I wouldn't be surprised if all new Vodafone price plans include 4G before the end of the year, though that is no more than a guess.

In reply to a post by jchamier:
Probably due to less users, until Vodafone sort out their pricing - which given recent advertisments for SIM only they might have done.

The current drop in Vodafone SIM only pricing is technically a long-running promotion (which is a nuisance, as I would be entitled to a discount if it was regular pricing). That said, I would be surprised if prices went back to their original levels once the promotion ends.

Standard User Michael_Chare
(experienced) Fri 06-Mar-15 13:52:28
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by David_W:
Almost all new Vodafone price plans have 4G included. 4G access is gradually finding its way lower down the range. Taking SIM only as an example, when 4G first launched you had to have a price plan with unlimited voice, unlimited texts and more than 1GB of data per month to have access to 4G. 4G became available on new unlimited voice, unlimited texts and 1GB data last year, and it is now available on the 900 minutes voice, unlimited texts and 500MB data plan. It's only the entry level 300 minutes voice, 500 texts and 250MB data plan that is 3G only.

I wouldn't be surprised if all new Vodafone price plans include 4G before the end of the year, though that is no more than a guess.

I hope that you are right!

Though if 02 and Three start to allow cross access I might be tempted to move.

Michael Chare
Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 06-Mar-15 14:56:14
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I know Vodafone say they are rolling out 4G aggressively but it's still quite patchy in the Midlands. Maybe that is because their power levels are lower than the other networks (this is the case in London).

At the moment I don't think any network can touch EE for 2G/3G/4G combined.

I know there are certain buildings that O2 and Vodafone penetrate better but overall, I'd say EE is top for coverage, speed and technology.

-

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 07-Mar-15 21:29:34
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
well lte-a-a is in very limited parts of london only anyway so its not a big deal at the moment for sim only.

At one point (when I ordered) the extra speed on extra package was labeled as double speed.

I remember thinking it was required to take advantage of the double speed 4g in the double speed 4g areas.

If its no longer labeled as such then the wording has been changed, perhaps after complaints.

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Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 07-Mar-15 21:29:46)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 07-Mar-15 22:10:22
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
well lte-a-a is in very limited parts of london only anyway so its not a big deal at the moment for sim only. At one point (when I ordered) the extra speed on extra package was labeled as double speed. I remember thinking it was required to take advantage of the double speed 4g in the double speed 4g areas. If its no longer labeled as such then the wording has been changed, perhaps after complaints.


I wouldn't put it past the EE website content creators to screw up and misunderstand the difference between 4G+ and Double Speed. I can't see the concept of Double Speed remaining beyond the end of 2015, but charging extra for 4G+ could make sense.

Even the original iPhone 5 can manage Double Speed speeds, and Vodafone has 2x20 at 2600 and they're not charging more for it. Even at 2x10 at 800 I saw 55mbps today on Vodafone. EE's 4G "double speed" area only managed 35mbps in the same location. I'm chalking that up to transmitter location/frequency as I doubt high load where I was.

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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 07-Mar-15 22:12:21
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
I know Vodafone say they are rolling out 4G aggressively but it's still quite patchy in the Midlands. Maybe that is because their power levels are lower than the other networks (this is the case in London).

Interesting about power levels. Vodafone in Hampshire is only on 800 and speeds are good and penetration is good, but there are a lot of unexpected holes in the coverage. It could be due to lower power to ensure there is always 900mhz 2G CSFB ?

At the moment I don't think any network can touch EE for 2G/3G/4G combined.
I know there are certain buildings that O2 and Vodafone penetrate better but overall, I'd say EE is top for coverage, speed and technology.


Yes, I think EE has the advantage, as when you fall out of 4G coverage you end up on good or excellent 3G, but with Vodafone I was on 4G at 50mbps and then 3G at 0.01 mbps today in a mate's town.

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 11-Mar-15 15:28:57
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
yeah their website was also advertising the wrong phone and I think still is.

They are shipping the 901F variant of the S5, but the specs are of the standard S5.

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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 11-Mar-15 15:29:58
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
and in hospitals three probably has no signal due to lack of 2g.

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Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Mar-15 15:58:58
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Could possibly be the case. I've noticed on EE it tends to switch back to 2G straight from 4G when making phone calls. Probably to ease capacity on 3G.

It's unfortunately how the Vodafone network is at present. In 4G coverage areas, the base stations get a full upgrade so 2G and 3G is also replaced so the network is very good.

Step outside these areas and you will probably end up on GPRS or Edge - that's where EE have a major advantage.

-

BT BroadbandInfinity 2
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 11-Mar-15 19:24:20
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
Could possibly be the case. I've noticed on EE it tends to switch back to 2G straight from 4G when making phone calls. Probably to ease capacity on 3G.


Interesting, I go from 4G to 3G for calls and back, but the 3G coverage here is excellent.

It's unfortunately how the Vodafone network is at present. In 4G coverage areas, the base stations get a full upgrade so 2G and 3G is also replaced so the network is very good.

Step outside these areas and you will probably end up on GPRS or Edge - that's where EE have a major advantage.


Yes, but at the rate Vodafone are spending money, they will both be worth watching for the foreseeable future.

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Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Mar-15 20:16:10
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I'm considering switching to Vodafone sim only imply because at work it's impossible to make voice calls etc because the signal is poor. Three have no plans for more 4G cells in the area.Vodafone 3G 900mhz provides a reliable 2/3 bar 3G signal.

The only thing that will slow down the Vodafone roll out is the need for planning applications to build new sites.

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Standard User bookey
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 11-Mar-15 21:35:52
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
Could possibly be the case. I've noticed on EE it tends to switch back to 2G straight from 4G when making phone calls. Probably to ease capacity on 3G.


Generally enough capacity on the 3G stack, you can switch down to 2G from 4G when making / rcv a call but that should be on the odd time not every time.

Happy for you to PM me a postcode if yo want me to take a look as the shape of the network in the area?

Paul
Standard User wolvesmad
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 12-Mar-15 08:35:10
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: bookey] [link to this post]
 
I think it could also be due to the 3G signal being so weak compared to 2G and 4G.

Pretty sure it comes from a different site, an ex T-Mobile site a fair distance away.

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Standard User dronkula
(regular) Sun 19-Jul-15 09:37:21
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Re: Three massively reduces planned 4G coverage for 2015


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Just to resurrect this thread..

Isn't Three about to also get the rest of the spectrum that they bought from EE back in 2012? They got some of that spectrum in Sept 2013, but are due to get the rest of it in Sept this year?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/22/three_ee_spe...

Would that affect/increase their rollout more?
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