O2 service "upgrade"

A few days ago I got quite excited because I got a text from O2 saying that... well, it was the standard one you get from their app when you select base stations and see their status. The one saying "Our scheme to improve coverage, and upgrade 2G and 3G services; and roll out 4G, has now reached your area. Expect some outages on March 14th". This is a town of over 10,000 people (not couting outlaying villages the mast covers) and so I thought they'd probably give us HSPA - I doubted that they'd move us straight from 2G to 4G.

Anyway, their own coverage map hasn't changed, and they've upgraded us to... wait for it... EDGE. In 2016.

Absolutely pathetic.

I was hoping they were going to do it in a few stages as their mast checker stayed red, i.e. "We're working on it..." until today, but now it's gone green.

I know, I know, swap networks to EE; but I'm tied to a contract until November. I don't want to keep changing my SIM card and have multiple numbers either. In case anyone was wondering whether I'd made a schoolboy error, my phone supports 4G/LTE, I've used it in loads of places.

Spoke too soon, we've got 4G now. Why did they do a quick EDGE phase? Not that I really care, now.

"have multiple numbers either" Huh? Just take it with you. Ask for a PAC, give the PAC o your new provider, wait patiently, job done.

John

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

Spoke too soon, we've got 4G now. Why did they do a quick EDGE phase? Not that I really care, now.

very likely they did not have the backhaul to handle 3G and 4G switch on (GPRS to EDGE does not really need much more capacity)

they likely replaced all the hardware at the base of the tower and the cells on the top of the mast (i assume you got 3G as well now)

O2 is obligated to provide 98% indoor 4G800 coverage i assume in populated areas (by around 2017) so you start to see smaller populated areas having their masts upgraded to 3G+4G (where they mite of only been kicking out a 3G or 2G signal before)

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

Spoke too soon, we've got 4G now. Why did they do a quick EDGE phase? Not that I really care, now.

Possibly the hardware was upgraded to something a little more modern. Nowadays, the RF hardware is multi-standard, so includes the capability of GSM/GPRS/EDGE, 3G as well as 4G/LTE. Something like this:
http://networks.nokia.com/system/files/document/nsn_...

Nokia originally got the contract from O2 for upgrading their network, and reported that they'd use this more modern technology; I'm not sure if they still do:
http://networks.nokia.com/news-events/press-room/pre...

During installation, their first priority will have been to restore existing capability, especially getting GSM up and running. The EDGE capability will have come with that automatically, using the same spectrum that the old hardware will have been configured with.

Bringing up new capability - 4G - can be done in a more leisurely manner. It will make use of spectrum that has never been used from that site before, so there are probably procedures to go through to make sure it is using the right power etc, that physical coverage is as-expected, and it isn't interfering with neighbouring cells.

In reply to a post by leexgx:

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

Spoke too soon, we've got 4G now. Why did they do a quick EDGE phase? Not that I really care, now.

O2 is obligated to provide 98% indoor 4G800 coverage i assume in populated areas (by around 2017) so you start to see smaller populated areas having their masts upgraded to 3G+4G (where they mite of only been kicking out a 3G or 2G signal before)

Just one small point, this isn't actually strictly true. They're obligated to provide a certain speed of data service, but not actually 4G800 or indeed any particular technology. I've got a link buried somewhere that explains what the licence requirement actually is, but I do remember it's technology-agnostic and not exactly what their PR & marketing would have everyone believe!

I will have to take a photo of the mast. It's a horrible ugly tower thing on an industrial estate, where you couldn't believe that they could fit any more of the white rectangular transmitters on. But after looking at it now, I can see that this site: http://pedroc.co.uk/Vodafone%20mast%20guidec.jpg probably tells me that the whiter-looking, squared-off panels are the new ones:

In reply to a post by leexgx:

they likely replaced all the hardware at the base of the tower and the cells on the top of the mast (i assume you got 3G as well now)

And yes, it falls back to 3G (sometimes HSPA+, sometimes just HSPA) in the remote parts where 4G fails.

It's like a different world, really, going from having GPRS which of course is absolutely useless, to having internet when walking around the town. My parents both have non-3G phones and their signal has improved so they can always make a call, now - it's about time, the mast covers over 10,000 people.

Again, I will get a photo of the disgusting ugly thing (I'm all for mordernisation, but this thing really is ugly) and let you see what's happened. O2 haven't updated their own app yet to show that we are covered with 3 and 4G, and it's been nearly a month now. You'd think they'd be very keen to do that as quickly as anything else.

Thanks for the replies, everyone, I don't know much at all about mobile transmitters, so it's been very helpful.

This is the site in 2009, which is so irrelevant that it might as well be the opening scene to 2001: A Space Odyssey, with Apes throwing femurs at it. Comparison to today will follow when I can be bothered to waste my energy on O2.

Edited by deleted (Sun 27-Mar-16 06:05:11)

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati... is the Ofcom document

i could not care less how they look my self

O2 on public roads have been really going with Pole masts most of them was built when they got 3G900 (the ones where the cells are inside the top of the pole covered up to make them look pretty) now around where i am they are taking the tops off and replacing the cells and replacing/adding cards

i thought some one was having a go at the local mast when i lost most of the 3G signal on me phone so i when to the pub where it sits on and had a look to make sure someone was not stealing stuff (at midnight we had 4G, i guess the mast already had enough hardline capacity to go to 4G)

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

A few days ago I got quite excited because I got a text from O2 saying that... well, it was the standard one you get from their app when you select base stations and see their status. The one saying "Our scheme to improve coverage, and upgrade 2G and 3G services; and roll out 4G, has now reached your area. Expect some outages on March 14th". This is a town of over 10,000 people (not couting outlaying villages the mast covers) and so I thought they'd probably give us HSPA - I doubted that they'd move us straight from 2G to 4G.

Anyway, their own coverage map hasn't changed, and they've upgraded us to... wait for it... EDGE. In 2016.

Absolutely pathetic.

I was hoping they were going to do it in a few stages as their mast checker stayed red, i.e. "We're working on it..." until today, but now it's gone green.

I know, I know, swap networks to EE; but I'm tied to a contract until November. I don't want to keep changing my SIM card and have multiple numbers either. In case anyone was wondering whether I'd made a schoolboy error, my phone supports 4G/LTE, I've used it in loads of places.

Ignoring that you were simply impatient... I wouldn't swap networks to EE in a million years. Made that error, never again.

In reply to a post by therioman:

Ignoring that you were simply impatient.

Hmmmm... Having a 4G smartphone for about 3 years whilst O2 constantly boast about their coverage and how they're expanding their 3G and 4G networks all the time does get to you eventually, when you live in an ever-expanding town with a compact population of about 10,000+ people and there's nothing but 2G and not-spots for miles around. That's changed now, but again, we are about halfway through 2016.

When I knew the upgrade of the base station was happening, I simply thought it was bizarre that I was getting an EDGE signal, as opposed to GPRS, for about a week... and then suddenly I woke up to find I was getting 4G. I actually expected a day or two of downtime whilst they worked on the mast, and was happy to have that even if I only got 3G afterwards.

But Again, cheers to the earlier posters for linking me to the hardware details, etc.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-May-16 02:02:18)

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

In reply to a post by therioman:

Ignoring that you were simply impatient.

Hmmmm... Having a 4G smartphone for about 3 years whilst O2 constantly boast about their coverage and how they're expanding their 3G and 4G networks all the time does get to you eventually, when you live in an ever-expanding town with a compact population of about 10,000+ people and there's nothing but 2G and not-spots for miles around. That's changed now, but again, we are about halfway through 2016.

When I knew the upgrade of the base station was happening, I simply thought it was bizarre that I was getting an EDGE signal, as opposed to GPRS, for about a week... and then suddenly I woke up to find I was getting 4G. I actually expected a day or two of downtime whilst they worked on the mast, and was happy to have that even if I only got 3G afterwards.

But Again, cheers to the earlier posters for linking me to the hardware details, etc.

It's possible you were getting EDGE/GPRS service from a different mast whilst your nearest was being worked on - generally speaking 2G services and frequencies travel further (it's not quite that simple, but a basic rule).

It may also be, and quite possibly was that they restored basic 2G service whilst setting up the rest (adding new frequencies means configuring to work alongside other neighbouring ones, whereas your 2G service already existed so could be recommissioned as/was once the kit was swapped.

Setting up a radio access network like this is a bit more involved than putting on a wireless unit in a home - although people often think you just connect and go, the reality is considerably more involved.

It's much the same with wifi actually if you have to do it at any scale, but that's another story entirely.

Edited by therioman (Fri 27-May-16 10:03:44)

I don't *think* I am close enough (or rather... there's a hill in the way) to receive a signal from another mast. But I take your point, and you could be right.

I think, though, that the likely answer has already been mentioned - they installed new equipment at the mast but didn't switch 3/4G on for a few days, because they were sorting out the backhaul. I hadn't though of that before, but it makes complete sense.

leegx and WWWombat said that on page 1, so blame them if you think that's impossible

I wish I could edit my thread-starting post with a note at the top saying that the problem is solved, but I can't because the maximum edit-time has expired. I posted that during the period of EDGE, and wrongly bad-mouthed O2 because I thought the upgrade was totally complete. Ever since I wrote the post beginning "Seems like I spoke too soon...", I've had a solid 4G signal.

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-May-16 22:11:25)

Do a reply to the opening post saying something similar, and alter the Subject to whatever you feel is appropriate.

People using Threaded Mode will see it immediately, and Flat Mode it just makes what you just said more obvious.

Re pages, I have 99 headings per page with Collapsed Threads and 99 posts per page, in Flat Mode . This thread is still on page 1 for me .

Pages get on my nerves.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 28-May-16 22:55:35)

I mean you can read the whole thread if you like, but there isn't any point. Mast upgrade>backhaul upgrade delay, probably. That's the answer.

In reply to a post by therioman:

In reply to a post by gazzyk1ns:

In reply to a post by therioman:

Ignoring that you were simply impatient.

Hmmmm... Having a 4G smartphone for about 3 years whilst O2 constantly boast about their coverage and how they're expanding their 3G and 4G networks all the time does get to you eventually, when you live in an ever-expanding town with a compact population of about 10,000+ people and there's nothing but 2G and not-spots for miles around. That's changed now, but again, we are about halfway through 2016.

When I knew the upgrade of the base station was happening, I simply thought it was bizarre that I was getting an EDGE signal, as opposed to GPRS, for about a week... and then suddenly I woke up to find I was getting 4G. I actually expected a day or two of downtime whilst they worked on the mast, and was happy to have that even if I only got 3G afterwards.

But Again, cheers to the earlier posters for linking me to the hardware details, etc.

It's possible you were getting EDGE/GPRS service from a different mast whilst your nearest was being worked on - generally speaking 2G services and frequencies travel further (it's not quite that simple, but a basic rule).

It may also be, and quite possibly was that they restored basic 2G service whilst setting up the rest (adding new frequencies means configuring to work alongside other neighbouring ones, whereas your 2G service already existed so could be recommissioned as/was once the kit was swapped.

Setting up a radio access network like this is a bit more involved than putting on a wireless unit in a home - although people often think you just connect and go, the reality is considerably more involved.

It's much the same with wifi actually if you have to do it at any scale, but that's another story entirely.

(o the page thing i have mine set to something like 30 per page i don't like threaded{this is not usenet} and i also don't like 5-10 posts per page as well, i am still on one page)

if the mast is covering a large enough area on its own its very likely they would restore 2g first (there are some key main masts that only cover the area loss of them masts would wipe out the coverage for whole area so would restore 2g as fast as they can and do 3g/4g later on in most cases is under 48 hours)

from what i have found O2/(Mast company they pay to maintain them) can norm do the job in very short time if the cells themselves don't need touching under 2 hours, if they do upto 48 hours at best (in my case they allowed normal devices to connect dead on midnight when they added 4G to it) the local site was done and dusted ion 2 hours but they did not enable mast association until midnight (all services as well as new 4G)

another site they did on the back of my works car park they did it under 5 hours (that was full 8 cells replaced with a crane and all the hardware in the base station and live 4G before 5pm)

it be nice if O2 would place a mast on top of main shopping centre in warrington like EE/3 have (shared mast) as endless people coming into costa coffee to find they have no 3g on o2 any more to get there codes and inside most of the shops O2 does not work unless you use free wifi but you have to be Not moving to use it as phones love to hang onto the last wifi hotspot that is no longer in range

backhaul would of been done first once planning was approved (if any was required most of that would of been getting the crane approved if one was needed)

Edited by leexgx (Tue 31-May-16 15:00:46)