Whats a good level of signal for 4g LTE?

Looking around I'm struggling to find much information on what signal strength/quality is good or bad for 4g broadband services.

Heres mine on Three with a B535 router (with 2 antenna in the back). I constantly get 5/5 bars of signal strength on the front of the router. As the crow flies I'm 300 yards from 2 masts.

RSRQ -10.0dB
RSRP -94dBm
RSSI -63dBm
SINR 9dB
Wireless transmit power
PPusch:2dBm PPucch:-13dBm PSrs:0dBm PPrach:-1dBm
Uplink mod/demod of MCS
mcsUpCarrier 1:29
Downlink mod/demod of MCS
mcsDownCarrier1Code0:0 mcsDownCarrier1Code1:0
PLMN 23420

I'm averaging 25-30Mb/s for most of the day, it drops to around 10Mb/s at peak times and can top out at up to 90Mb/s in the dead of night.

I'm fairly certain the download speeds I get are more down to bandwidth availability than signal, but if someone could explain what it all means it'd be much appreciated!

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

Looking around I'm struggling to find much information on what signal strength/quality is good or bad for 4g broadband services.

Heres mine on Three with a B535 router (with 2 antenna in the back). I constantly get 5/5 bars of signal strength on the front of the router. As the crow flies I'm 300 yards from 2 masts.

RSRQ -10.0dB
RSRP -94dBm
RSSI -63dBm
SINR 9dB
Wireless transmit power
PPusch:2dBm PPucch:-13dBm PSrs:0dBm PPrach:-1dBm
Uplink mod/demod of MCS
mcsUpCarrier 1:29
Downlink mod/demod of MCS
mcsDownCarrier1Code0:0 mcsDownCarrier1Code1:0
PLMN 23420

I'm averaging 25-30Mb/s for most of the day, it drops to around 10Mb/s at peak times and can top out at up to 90Mb/s in the dead of night.

I'm fairly certain the download speeds I get are more down to bandwidth availability than signal, but if someone could explain what it all means it'd be much appreciated!

I was waiting to see if the more experienced members of the forum would reply so apologises if my response is limited.

I don't believe its just about the quality and strength of the signal as I get better figures on my mobile phone than you but worse speeds than you. I believe its more about how much bandwidth (e.g. 5, 10, 15 or 20 Mhz) and if Carrier Aggregation is available.

Edit: Maybe you can say what band and provider as that may help others with their responses

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Nov-19 17:45:05)

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

Looking around I'm struggling to find much information on what signal strength/quality is good or bad for 4g broadband services. RSSI -63dBm

I'm about 30m from a very tall EE & Three mast, and indoors I get around RSSI of -100dBm which is a much weaker signal than yours. Yours is a very good signal, from my basic understanding. (I think the signal from my mast is going literally over my head).

My iPhone XS on EE shows the following at my desk, and achieves around 45 Mbps. Elsewhere at home I have seen upto 100 Mbps when the network is quiet (e.g. 2am).
RSRP = -97
RSRQ = -15
SINR = 5.0

I have a rooted old Motorola android with Qualcomm LTE chip, which runs an app called Network Signal Guru, and shows a lot more diagnostics about signal. I have a Vodafone PAYG SIM in the device, and it shows this:
https://i.imgur.com/pjiTy6O.png


What I have learned is LTE is incredibly complicated, and not remotely comparable to ADSL / VDSL. There are a lot of parameters that change all the time, and the mast and the device adapt the signal based on the path to the user, and the path away from the user.


There are more people whom understand cellular radio signals on the Digital Spy mobile phones forum.

This is an interesting YouTube channel too.
https://www.youtube.com/user/scivids1999

Edited by jchamier (Fri 01-Nov-19 18:27:58)

In reply to a post by dect:

I don't believe its just about the quality and strength of the signal as I get better figures on my mobile phone than you but worse speeds than you. I believe its more about how much bandwidth (e.g. 5, 10, 15 or 20 Mhz) and if Carrier Aggregation is available.

Correct. Once you have sufficient signal, it is now about the capacity OF the signal. A lot of the desktop / domestic hardware is quite old in feature set compared to mobile handsets. Most networks now transmit many 'beams' of signal, and the handset/mast together negotiate. Newer handsets can aggregate beams together.

Much of the domestic hardware is only Category 4 which limits the capabilities of aggregation. Most handsets are now Category 9 or higher.

My Figures are below

RSRQ -3.0dB
RSRP -85dBm
RSSI -59dBm
SINR 18dB

I'm getting abput 100Mbps on average.

I remember trying to understand from places like THIS but it just seemed to be more confusing.

Thats interesting because the B535 is supposed to be CAT 7 LTE.

FDD-LTE Cat7: 300Mbps(DL), 100Mbps(UL) @ 20MBW
TDD-LTE Cat7: 220Mbps(DL),20Mbps(UL) @ 20MBW

Certainly looks like bandwidth capacity is the limiting factor here then.

"I remember trying to understand from places like THIS but it just seemed to be more confusing. "

Yes, it does seem to be more confusing.

Cat 7 is a useful tweak to Cat 6, which in phones was a 2015 ish model.

I believe for each 5Mhz of 4G bandwidth the maximum download is around 37.5Mbps (without any CA).

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

Certainly looks like bandwidth capacity is the limiting factor here then.

And this is LTE technology (4g) which stands for "Long Term Evolution" and was a dramatic increase in capacity over the radio side from the previous UMTS (3G) and 2G (GPRS) systems. You can see why 5G is required, this is 5G NR (New Radio) to add capacity on the radio side.

Adding capacity to the mast is just down to cost. Openreach, Virgin Media Business, Vodafone Networks and others can provide fibre capacities of 10 Gigabit for the money - the problem is getting that into the air and sharing it with allo the customers.

As Marc Allera (BT's consumer division boss) posts on twitter, the amount of data going over the EE network is increasing at an unthinkable rate. This of course is just 1 of the 4 physical networks in the UK.

And why if you are connected only to Band 20 (800mhz) on either Three or EE, getting speeds in the high 20's is "very good". This is why if you can pick up another signal at the same time and join them (CA) you get better performance, however if you are in a remote rural area, the lower frequencies go further.

The networks are all waiting for Ofcom to auction the 700mhz spectrum in 2020.

You haven't said what band you're using

In reply to a post by jchamier:

This is why if you can pick up another signal at the same time and join them (CA) you get better performance,

I think its time mobile providers stopped limiting what bands can be used for CA as its not any with any at the moment.

I'd like to know what band its using, but there isn't any way I can find this out.

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

I'd like to know what band its using, but there isn't any way I can find this out.

Its one of the annoying limitations of Huawei's straight out of the box, some forum members have found ways to find out and also switch between bands.

In reply to a post by dect:

I think its time mobile providers stopped limiting what bands can be used for CA as its not any with any at the moment.

I think its regulation AND the device capabilities. Depending on the chipset used by the handset / device, then the CA bands differ. The more expensive devices have the most options as always!

A SINR of 9 isn�t amazing, I get around 20.

If you have a pc

Lteinspecteur program will tell you which band you're on and allow you to change band/CA. Seems a legit program, but obviously use at your own risk. You will get a few warnings from windows before installing. They also offer a portable version, so no need to install the program.

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Nov-19 20:47:41)

Using LteInspecteur I get the following data on Three. I'm doing CA on B3 and B20.

RSSP = -77
RSSI = -55
RSRQ = -11
SINR = 13
Download Max = 119.82
Upload Max = 40.47

The max download speed is capped by the cell site as shortly after Three had their day long blip I was getting a constant 150ish down from the same location. The 120 doesn't seem to change day or night (even at 3am)

For me

All averaged

RSSP = -89
RSSI = -60
RSRQ = 6 (Fluctuating quite heavily compared to usual)
SINR = 16
Download Max = 100 in late evening, early morning. Though, typically around 50-70.
Upload Max = Consistently 30. I imagine it would be faster if my router hardware allowed it.

Edit. Also CA on band 3 and 20
I should also add that i'm 3.5 miles as the crow flies from nearest mast (If cell mapper is correct) I'm rural

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Nov-19 00:38:10)

I get very different results on the four networks. Just happened to quote the two I have to hand. I also get different results around my home.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

A SINR of 9 isn�t amazing, I get around 20.

Always found the SINR measurement critical to a good mobile connection.

In reply to a post by dect:

Always found the SINR measurement critical to a good mobile connection.

As it is with DSL, no?

But at the frequencies of 1800mhz, 2100mhz, 2600mhz you find it is incredibly variable, and yet with 5G everyone is going higher and higher in mhz.

multi-pathing / reflections and other complexities make it a very tough business.

(These issues do occur at 800mhz and 900mhz too).

Edited by jchamier (Sun 03-Nov-19 11:07:09)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

As it is with DSL, no?

Very true

Surely the only real different between the bands is that the lower bands can go further and penetrate building better, shame the refarming of the existing lower mobile bands for newer generation of mobile technology isn't done sooner.

Can you explain how you get your router (and what model it is) to do CA and select your channels?

In reply to a post by dect:

Surely the only real different between the bands is that the lower bands can go further and penetrate building better

But this is a two way connection, and the £1m mast has to hear your £800 device transmitting, whilst it is moving. So the difference between 800mhz and 1800mhz is a lot less than people think. I believe if you have 20mhz of LTE then in theory you have the same capacity. However the lower bands travel further, so need careful management or they interfere with each other!

shame the refarming of the existing lower mobile bands for newer generation of mobile technology isn't done sooner.

It is quite a good way to lose business if you cut people off whom have only a 2G/3G phone (e.g. early Samsung or iPhone models)

In reply to a post by chriscdotcodotuk:

Download Max = 119.82
Upload Max = 40.47

The max download speed is capped by the cell site as shortly after Three had their day long blip I was getting a constant 150ish down from the same location. The 120 doesn't seem to change day or night (even at 3am)

I think this is the AMBR and is set by the network. For example on EE PAYG SIMs you find this is set to 30mbps download and upload.

Windows certainly finds it very difficult to trust running Lteinspecteur doesn't it?

Never known windows scream so loudly not to install something!

It really does. I can't say for sure how those things work but i think it has something to do with program signatures. Perhaps the guy couldn't be bothered or didn't want to certify it. Might cost money, who knows. I'm sure there are people on the forum who know about that stuff. Bells will ring, too, as the program needs access to network related things.

I suggest reading through the post. The guy who created it tries to explain why its tripping alerts. Will have to translate the webpage from French to English. If you're using Chrome, you should get a prompt allowing you to translate the webpage.

LTEinspecteur will not run 3 times out of 4 on my PC so from the same French forum I now use Huawei Monitor instead, lots more functionality even if unregistered.

https://routeur4g.fr/discussions/discussion/1285/hua...

Thanks for that, works a treat. (Though you can't log in to your router at the same time).

So it appears I'm locked into Band 3. Though this program reports my SNR to be 15-18 unlike the router itself.

When I go into the settings/radio tab it has a couple of tabs with Auto/Manual band selection. If I change bands and click apply, my routers cyan connection light blinks red, then back to cyan, the signal strength dies, returns to 5 bars and then returns to band 3.

I can't figure out anything related to carrier aggregation or multiple band usage.

So I assume the reason I'm mostly seeing 20-30Mb/s is because its only connecting to one band most of the time, and when its quiet in the dead of night/early morning the bandwidth is available and it can jump up to 90Mb/s.

I think a phone call to Three is in order.

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Nov-19 17:41:56)

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

I think a phone call to Three is in order.

If you have Band 3 (1800) and are getting 90Mbps off peak, then there is nothing wrong with the network. You are getting 15 Mhz of LTE. If you pick up band 20 (800mhz) and CA is enabled, you would gain another 5mhz, which is trivial, and it would likely be overloaded.

You need Three to deploy either their 1400mhz supplemental downlink spectrum, or to refarm some 3G on 2100mhz (Band 1) to LTE use.

Of course Three won't tell you their plans, as you might tell their competition.

There are other networks. Always worth trying the competition.

Been trying to understand the 2.6Ghz paired and unpaired bands and how they differ from the other bands

Paired is what we call normal LTE / frequency division duplexing. You have the same number of MHz in each direction. (Uplink and downlink). So for 5mhz usable there is 10mhz of spectrum deployed.

Unpaired is just that amount, used with Time Division Duplexing. The uplink and downlink are in the same MHz.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Paired is what we call normal LTE / frequency division duplexing. You have the same number of MHz in each direction. (Uplink and downlink). So for 5mhz usable there is 10mhz of spectrum deployed.

Unpaired is just that amount, used with Time Division Duplexing. The uplink and downlink are in the same MHz.

Thanks for explaining the difference, that makes sense

"If you have Band 3 (1800) and are getting 90Mbps off peak, then there is nothing wrong with the network"

So am I right in saying the reason I am getting slower speeds at peak times is down to a lack of available bandwidth at the mast? Not my connection to the mast itself?

There could be other reasons (e.g. interference) but yes, load is a factor. (ie, other users).