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Standard User danfozzy85
(newbie) Mon 18-Nov-19 11:29:45
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upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[link to this post]
 
hey,

im looking to upgrade my huawei router from the b315 to the b535.

the upgrade is a jump in speeds thanks to the CAT upgrades. Im not wanting to upgrade if there is no point so im trying to find out if my area is capable of operating on this CAT 7 or even anything better than CAT4 but dont know were to look??

my download/upload speeds are not to bad, 20-35/20-30Mbps depending on peak times, but what i do suffer from is latency issues when stream games through Geforce Now - latency seems to sit about 60/70ms, which results in stuttering in game play.

the info i have sourced from mastdata.com is "UMTS Sectored at 14m (2100 MHz 18.7/65 dBW)"

Currently with smarty, looking at moving directly to three to take advantage of their deal for the b535..

Edited by danfozzy85 (Mon 18-Nov-19 16:17:19)

Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 16:45:55
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
From my reading of posts on the use of the B535 I would not go near it, the apps and PC programs that you need to use to get the best functionality from these Huawei modems cannot get access to the B535 login routine. I have a B525 CAT6 which can be accessed, but times are moving on and a CAT9 seems to be the next logical step so the B715-23c is on my radar, however getting one with a good price and the firmware to support my setup are a struggle so I may just drop this idea for 6 months and then redo the research from baseline.

Edited by kommando (Mon 18-Nov-19 16:46:39)

Standard User danfozzy85
(newbie) Mon 18-Nov-19 16:58:16
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
Is CAT 9 worth waiting for when in the next year or 2 5G will be hopefully in my area?

Will CAT 7 help with the latency and improve speeds? Short term this could be the stop gap improvement for myself until 5G is here, then again if the improvement is negligible then I'll just have to sit tight!

Edited by danfozzy85 (Mon 18-Nov-19 17:00:28)


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Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 18-Nov-19 17:19:13
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by danfozzy85:
Will CAT 7 help with the latency and improve speeds?
I don't believe it will help with latency as that's more a limitation of 4G, improved speeds would be hard to determine by forum members as that comes down to what mobile bands are actually available from within your property.

Others may have a different opinion and I will bow to their superior knowledge.
Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 17:30:21
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
Cat4 to Cat6 or 7 gets you 4G+/CA, but with Three that is of marginal improvement if your Cat4 can be easily locked to Band 3 with 15mhz bandwidth, the extra band currently on offer from 3 is Band 20 is only 5mhz band width. So if you get say 30mb download with Band 3 then adding in band 20 can only get you 1/3 more eg 30 becomes max 40 and inefficiencies mean 35mb is more likely. Its the upcoming rollout of Band 32 (L band) with 20mhz of bandwidth that will make the big difference. But when does it happen to your mast, will 5G be installed first, there is no info out there to be able to make an informed decision. As my local Three mast is very rural I am making presumptions of the strategy for Three's local mast and to me a Cat9 upgrade will get me the Band 32, 5G seems to be starting out on the high frequencies which do not travel farso even if the mast gets the capability it will not get to me.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 18-Nov-19 17:38:30
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kommando:
to me a Cat9 upgrade will get me the Band 32
I thought Band 32 was supported by the B525
Standard User danfozzy85
(newbie) Mon 18-Nov-19 17:49:28
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
As I know nothing on the subject of bands I've just google about band 32, sounds promising, but as mentioned above latency timings are pretty much set with the 4g standard?

It's a pain in the butt not knowing what is intended for my local mast, but I know something is in the works as there is planning permission approved from my local council (in 2017) to remove x3 masts and replace the x3 masts and add a dish on the current mast site.

Dont want commit to any 2 year contracts if things are about to change massively, if a black friday deal comes up on the ee/3 site for unlimted home broadband I might take the jump

Were is a good place to start for reading up on 4g and how it works lol

Edited by danfozzy85 (Mon 18-Nov-19 17:52:52)

Standard User Ewok
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 18-Nov-19 17:58:30
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
Latency of 60-70ms has nothing to do with 4g. On 4g I usually get latency of 15ms with EE but that is in london. Latency with 5g can be lower than that but clearly 4g is capable of doing 15ms at least. Your latency will likely depend on your location, distances, the server your are connecting to, and your provider more than it will 4g.
Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 18:30:24
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
Correct, so one option is to stick to the B525 and CA band 3 and 32 for 35mhz bandwidthand ignore band 20 as it's staying at 5mhz bandwidth, but sometimes the rotation for absolute max is irrational 😆
Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 18-Nov-19 18:40:45
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kommando:
Correct, so one option is to stick to the B525 and CA band 3 and 32 for 35mhz bandwidthand ignore band 20 as it's staying at 5mhz bandwidth, but sometimes the rotation for absolute max is irrational 😆


I’m pretty sure three have not confirmed if they will support band 3 and 32 together. Even if they do they might only use band 3 for upload.
Standard User danfozzy85
(newbie) Mon 18-Nov-19 18:41:46
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
So for future proofing for band 32, the b525 is the router of choice if sticking with three? I cant find anything if the b535 will support band 32

Edit: in typical fashion I've found that it does straight after I posted this, it's the software/ability to change settings is what is currently holding this back ?

Edited by danfozzy85 (Mon 18-Nov-19 18:47:38)

Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 19:38:32
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Band 3 will be up and download, Band 32 will be download only and must be part of a CA setup. So if the mast blows out on band 3 band 32 being available does nothing as you lose 2 way data transmission, unless you can latch onto band 20 which again is 2 way and Band 32 will give a good download only speed as CA band.

Edited by kommando (Mon 18-Nov-19 19:41:49)

Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 19:40:52
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
So for future proofing for band 32, the b525 is the router of choice if sticking with three? I cant find anything if the b535 will support band 32

Edit: in typical fashion I've found that it does straight after I posted this, it's the software/ability to change settings is what is currently holding this back ?


Correct.
Standard User gary333
(member) Mon 18-Nov-19 21:01:33
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kommando:
Band 3 will be up and download, Band 32 will be download only and must be part of a CA setup. So if the mast blows out on band 3 band 32 being available does nothing as you lose 2 way data transmission, unless you can latch onto band 20 which again is 2 way and Band 32 will give a good download only speed as CA band.


Let’s hope the technical spec for the B525 is wrong as it shows it can only use band 20 and band 32 together, and not band 3 and 32.
Standard User kommando
(learned) Mon 18-Nov-19 21:33:02
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Using Huawei Monitor I have been able to set my B525-23c to Band 3 and Band 32 CA, but that means nothing until the mast is upgraded as I just got a Band 3 connection, but the B525 did not reject the combination as invalid. Will also depend on firmware as there are a few variations around.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Mon 18-Nov-19 22:59:25
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: kommando] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kommando:
Using Huawei Monitor I have been able to set my B525-23c to Band 3 and Band 32 CA, but that means nothing until the mast is upgraded as I just got a Band 3 connection, but the B525 did not reject the combination as invalid. Will also depend on firmware as there are a few variations around.
I know members keeping saying they have used downloaded apps to set the CA bands and/or separate out the upload/download bands on their B525 but having looked closely at this routers API's there is only one remote API setting called 'net-mode' that can set 2G/3G/4G and the available primary bands. There is no API I can see to set CA or separate out upload and download bands, I believe these extra decisions are made by the network in conjunction with a compatible router. I hope someone can prove me wrong as I know its possible on some other routers just not the B525.

Edited by dect (Mon 18-Nov-19 23:14:06)

Standard User oga83
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-19 11:34:06
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I know members keeping saying they have used downloaded apps to set the CA bands and/or separate out the upload/download bands on their B525 but having looked closely at this routers API's there is only one remote API setting called 'net-mode' that can set 2G/3G/4G and the available primary bands. There is no API I can see to set CA or separate out upload and download bands, I believe these extra decisions are made by the network in conjunction with a compatible router. I hope someone can prove me wrong as I know its possible on some other routers just not the B525.

Hi

I'm new to this forum.
Disclaimer : I am the writer of Huawei Monitor

Yes, you can configure your B525 with separate UL/DL bands.
Huawei Monitor can be used to do this. It can also monitor the current UL/DL bands and force them back in case the router decides otherwise.

Here is how you can configure the UL/DL bands : screenshot
And here is how you can automatically force the bands back in case they change : screenshot

Huawei Monitor is available in English. However, I did not have the time to translate its documention which is only in French for now. Google traduction might help though : here
Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 11:51:09
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
Hi

Happy to learn from you so if its possible please state the API as 'net-mode' only has 3 input parameters on a B525, this API doesn't support configuration of CA and/or separate upload/download bands on a B525


NetworkMode = Auto (0), 2G (1), 3G (2) or 4G (3)
NetworkBand = 3G band (default 3FFFFFFF)
LTEBand =4G Band (default 20800800C5)

Also the 'net-mode-list' API also confirms my comments above as it supplies the available options.

Edited by dect (Tue 19-Nov-19 12:14:17)

Standard User oga83
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-19 12:23:48
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
You are correct : there is no additional parameters for this api.
What's important is the way you set up the values (order and timings).
But I can confirm that this api supports configuration of both separate UL/DL bands and Carrier Aggregation (DL only).
You can easily check that it works with Huawei Monitor (there is nothing to install as it is a portable executable).
Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 12:49:29
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oga83:
You are correct : there is no additional parameters for this api.
What's important is the way you set up the values (order and timings).
But I can confirm that this api supports configuration of both separate UL/DL bands and Carrier Aggregation (DL only).
You can easily check that it works with Huawei Monitor (there is nothing to install as it is a portable executable).
Sadly I will remain unconvinced, the third parameter LTEBand of the 'net-mode' API only has a single hex input value (see band values below that can be added together) so I cannot believe either timing or the order will change that single hex value to become a CA and/or separate upload/download values.

I will give you an example, it doesnt matter how faster or slow you drive your Renault Megane its still a Renault Megane.

Hex________Freq_Band

1__________2100_B1
4__________1800_B3
40_________2600_B7
80__________900_B8
8000________800_B20
2000000000_2600_B38

Edited by dect (Tue 19-Nov-19 12:50:11)

Standard User oga83
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-19 13:16:19
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
When you enter your credit card pin code and wait too long between each digit, it might not work.
If you enter the digits in the wrong order, il will not work either.
So, you can see here that both the order and timings might be important.
It's the same with the net-mode api.

From your hex/band list, didn't you consider that 41 (1+40) could mean B1+B7 ?

I don't want to convince you. I just wanted to let you know that it's possible to configure the B525 with separate UL/DL bands and CA for DL.
And it's also very easy to check by yourself.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 14:05:16
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oga83:
From your hex/band list, didn't you consider that 41 (1+40) could mean B1+B7 ?
Yes that's why my last post said
In reply to a post by dect:
see band values below that can be added together
Adding together the hex values for bands simple makes those bands available as the primary band (not for CA or separate UL/DL).

The net-mode API has more parameters for some newer models and I agree it may be possible on those routers but not on the B525 (your comments actually convince me more that's the case).

Also note there is no hex value for the B32 band as this band cannot be selected as a primary band and adding all the hex values together equals 20800800C5 which is the max hex value for the B525-23a

Edited by dect (Tue 19-Nov-19 14:10:11)

Standard User oga83
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-19 14:41:08
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Adding together the hex values for bands simple makes those bands available as the primary band (not for CA or separate UL/DL).
That's true for routers that don't support CA

Regarding the B525, it depends whether you have an old B525s-23a (no CA) or a more recent B525s-65a (released in 2017) that supports 2CA. See the B525s-65a product description (Pdf page #5).
Of course, it makes no sense to try to configure CA on a router that does not support it. And the CA availabily also depends on the BTS.

But in both cases (avaliable bands or CA), the api is exactly the same.
If you take a more recent router like the B715 that supports 3CA, the api is still the same, without any additional parameter.

Also note there is no hex value for the B32 band
To check that a band is available, you have to use the net-mode-list api.

Edited by oga83 (Tue 19-Nov-19 14:46:51)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 16:16:39
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oga83:
old B525s-23a (no CA) or a more recent B525s-65a (released in 2017) that supports 2CA
Both models support CA, It would be very strange if someone who claims to have developed a B525 app doesn't know that.

Edited by dect (Tue 19-Nov-19 16:29:49)

Standard User oga83
(newbie) Tue 19-Nov-19 16:47:05
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
Both models support CA
No mention of CA in the B525s-23a product decription.

It would be very strange if someone who claims to have developed a B525 app doesn't know that.
Haha, believe what you want !
But I don't understand why you are so stuborn.
Obviously you don't know the api

I was just trying to help but I can see I'm not welcome.
I'm done here :;

Edited by oga83 (Tue 19-Nov-19 16:48:18)

Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 17:03:19
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
I'm not convinced you are who you say you are but thanks anyway.
Standard User buggerlugs
(learned) Tue 19-Nov-19 19:59:05
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I'm also wary of using this software. Its like giving total access to your router to a program installed on your system. Not something this website should be okay with really.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Tue 19-Nov-19 22:07:29
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: buggerlugs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by buggerlugs:
I'm also wary of using this software. Its like giving total access to your router to a program installed on your system.
Not just giving total access to your router but to your computer or mobile device and to the whole of your local network.

I always think if all the feature claims of a software developer are not true why would they lie and what is their ultimate objective.

This is no recommendation but I have been through line by line the code for the 'Huawei_Manager_1.3_PL_BETA' app without finding anything sinister, I wish I had access to the source code for the other apps that claim to be more feature rich.
Standard User kommando
(learned) Wed 20-Nov-19 11:18:02
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
At the base of my network is a Draytek router, the info on IP traffic can be logged and you get the option to block indiviual IP's, I have seen no unusual traffic from any of these apps, which is more than you can say for one of Chinese CCTV's I have, which if I allowed it sends the odd random packet out, it may go in the bin one day but I doubt scenes of a cat flap are state secrets.
Standard User danfozzy85
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-19 12:34:21
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
is your program compatible with the b535, or plan for compatibility in the future?
Standard User oga83
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-19 18:03:06
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: buggerlugs] [link to this post]
 
I'm also wary of using this software. Its like giving total access to your router to a program installed on your system. Not something this website should be okay with really.
Says the man who uses a Chineese Huawei firmware...
Standard User oga83
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-19 18:12:20
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
I always think if all the feature claims of a software developer are not true why would they lie and what is their ultimate objective.
@dect
As experienced as you are on this forum, I suggest that you read the forum rules again, in particular, the libellous remarks section.
Standard User oga83
(newbie) Wed 20-Nov-19 18:16:12
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: danfozzy85] [link to this post]
 
is your program compatible with the b535, or plan for compatibility in the future?
I'm sorry but I don't know, yet.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 20-Nov-19 18:54:47
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oga83:
I always think if all the feature claims of a software developer are not true why would they lie and what is their ultimate objective.
@dect
As experienced as you are on this forum, I suggest that you read the forum rules again, in particular, the libellous remarks section.
I have stated my opinion about rogue software developers, I have not accused you or any individual so your reaction is interesting, If you feel I have overstepped the mark please refer my post to the 'Talk To The Staff' section of this forum who will decide if my comment is in breach of the forum rules.
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 20-Nov-19 19:02:24
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: oga83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by oga83:
I'm also wary of using this software. Its like giving total access to your router to a program installed on your system. Not something this website should be okay with really.
Says the man who uses a Chineese Huawei firmware...
I nearly fell off my chair laughing…….

You are not trying to compared a script kiddie in his bedroom who could create rogue software for personal financial gain with a chinese enterprise who is more likely to be trying to stealing state secrets.

Edited by dect (Wed 20-Nov-19 19:05:12)

Standard User buggerlugs
(learned) Wed 20-Nov-19 19:04:18
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: dect] [link to this post]
 
wow, this got lively all of a sudden didn't it guys! smile
Standard User dect
(experienced) Wed 20-Nov-19 19:27:13
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Re: upgrade Cat 4 to Cat 7 router - LTE to LTE advanced


[re: buggerlugs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by buggerlugs:
wow, this got lively all of a sudden didn't it guys! smile
Its a shame, its normally very amicable in the mobile section of the forum.
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