Is an external antenna worthwhile?

I'm exploring using 4G broadband instead of my long standing BT FTTC.

Reason? Well the speed I've got using the landline has never been better than about 50Mbs down / 7mbs up, due to distance from the cabinet and possible some aluminium along the route. Recently it dropped to less than 30mbs, and I had to get BT and then Openreach out only to find this was DLM limited and needed resetting. Also, I'm paying about £77/mo for line rental, phone, broadband (to be fair that does include anytime calls).

I've just picked up a Huawei B535 off ebay and, with a Three sim, found I can get 50-70mbs down, 20 up with the router placed by an upstairs window, no antenna. So I'm wondering if an external antenna would make a difference, something like a Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0002 (the mast is 1Km away). Without the antenna, I'm getting 4-5 bars showing on the router, so would the antenna make much difference?

The external antenna would give you stable signal, lower latency and possibly higher speed, Have you checked if you put the sim in your mobile, how much speed you get outside?

External antenna's are tricky and frequently not a good idea. The issue is a weak mobile signal being sent down a long length of coax cable which has losses itself. The end result is you don't come out ahead and may in fact end up worse off.

The better option is usually to look at something like the Mikrotik SXT LTE6 kit which is placed externally and has the modem in it, and then uses ethernet to bring the network connection back inside. This keeps the modem right next to the antenna, for minimal loss and the network connection then goes over twisted pair ethernet which is good for ~100m with no loss whatsoever. Generally you use power over ethernet to power the device over the same ethernet cable.

Could you open the window and hang the B535 out (obviously being safe). This would give you an idea if there is any point. However, as above many people have had no luck with external antenna's some of this is likely to be the 5m length of coax that seems to be hard wired to most antennas.

The SXT is a great device however, your B535 can aggregate bands 1 and 3, and if these are the ones it's been using then the SXT likely won't perform as well as it cannot aggregate those two bands. If it could, it would be handing off my house right now

So I checked with mobile phone outside and the signal is slightly better than inside. Then I tried an external directional antenna feeding into the B535. Speed increased to up to 70 down / 30 up. SINR on router reading 18dB now and packet loss reduced.

In reply to a post by keith969:

So I checked with mobile phone outside and the signal is slightly better than inside. Then I tried an external directional antenna feeding into the B535. Speed increased to up to 70 down / 30 up. SINR on router reading 18dB now and packet loss reduced.

Which antenna did you try>?

The Poynting one. Bought on Amazon and would have returned if it made little difference - but it did.

I wouldn't think the cost would justify the improvement. The speed down being more to do with bandwidth available from your local mast to you. When the kids get home from school locally and everyone is on their phone downloading data you will see it drop a lot lower, more so when different Telco's share masts.

I have the 4G-XPOL-A0001 connected to a B310.

It comes with a 5 Metre cable, so the increase in signal strength is negated by the loss in the cable, so I ended up with the same speed.

The advantage for me was that I could have the router in the main house instead of up in the roof space.

Edited by onthenet (Wed 12-Feb-20 18:39:18)

In reply to a post by buggerlugs:

more so when different Telco's share masts.

That is not normally the case now for 4G. The sharing is normally physical location and often the panels on the tower/mast.

In reply to a post by keith969:

The Poynting one. Bought on Amazon and would have returned if it made little difference - but it did.

Nice, might do the same, did you get the omni or directional one?

The directional one - there's only one mast near me, and pretty much line of sight.

Realistically, how much difference will that 5m of coax make to the stability or latency if at all? I'm only asking because I currently have an external antenna connected to my router with 5m of cable and wondered if I could improve my pings by running an SXT with PoE outside instead? It seems doubtful that 5m would make a difference surely not?

In reply to a post by _Belial:

Realistically, how much difference will that 5m of coax make to the stability or latency if at all? I'm only asking because I currently have an external antenna connected to my router with 5m of cable and wondered if I could improve my pings by running an SXT with PoE outside instead? It seems doubtful that 5m would make a difference surely not?

If you know the cable type most manufactures publish cable loses online.

The Antenna was installed by EE, there's no labeling at all on the cable for me to check against

In reply to a post by _Belial:

The Antenna was installed by EE, there's no labeling at all on the cable for me to check against

Thats not helpful, their are so many different types of cable, some with a copper core and some with an aluminum core so the loses of the cable can be significantly different

In reply to a post by _Belial:

Realistically, how much difference will that 5m of coax make to the stability or latency if at all?

I agree the mathematical losses may be low (15ft of RG58 @ 900MHz has a loss of around 2.2 dB) compared to the gain of the antenna (typically 10dbi+ from a yagi)

But practically we found it problematic, moving to Outdoor IADs (like the Mikrotik SXT) has been fantastic for us, running network cable is so much easier and more reliable

Edited by john_32 (Mon 17-Feb-20 11:24:55)

It will make a near zero difference to latency (about 20 nano seconds - the additional propagation time of the signal in coax cable). The cable itself is probably low loss, but if the terminations are badly done or damaged then you can easily end up loosing more signal than you gain. Which is something a number of people on the forum have experienced.

If it is working for you don't worry. If you where to be installing something from scratch, it is something to bear in mind. The notion is that it is much easier to run and terminate correctly Cat5e/Cat6 than it is coax cable carrying mobile phone signals, so the use of an SXT or similar is a better option.

In reply to a post by john_32:

In reply to a post by _Belial:

Realistically, how much difference will that 5m of coax make to the stability or latency if at all?

I agree the mathematical losses may be low (15ft of RG58 @ 900MHz has a loss of around 2.2 dB) compared to the gain of the antenna (typically 10dbi+ from a yagi)

But practically we found it problematic, moving to Outdoor IADs (like the Mikrotik SXT) has been fantastic for us, running network cable is so much easier and more reliable

The 4G-XPOL-A0001 has a rated increase of +4dbi with a cable loss of 2.65db for 5 metres (0.53db/m) @1710 - 2700 MHz

Edited by gary333 (Mon 17-Feb-20 13:57:09)

THe figures with the antenna mounted outside are:

RSRQ-8.0dB
RSRP-78dBm
RSSI>=-51dBm
SINR26dB

Compare with the 535's internal antenna only:

RSRQ-7.0dB
RSRP-99dBm
RSSI-73dBm
SINR8dB

I have a buddy who has one of these https://www.wifi-stock.co.uk/details/mikrotik-lhg-lt...

and he claims to get 300 down. Big claim and not seen it for myself so take it with a large pinch of salt.

A very big pinch of salt, given like the other Mikrotik LTE routers it only has 100mb/s Ethernet ports...

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

A very big pinch of salt, given like the other Mikrotik LTE routers it only has 100mb/s Ethernet ports...

He's always been a bit of a [censored], but thanks for checking it out now I can rub it in his face.

When i originally took out EE ultra expensive 4g broadband some 14 months ago i also went for the £100 out door antenna and was reaching speeds of 90mb to 100 download speed with the provided EE equipment.

But i ditched this equipment as i was getting strict nat or Type 3 Nat and there are very few menu options to change setting and set up.

I bought a Netgear router with a sim slot and also changed my EE broadband deal so i had unlimited sim for a fraction of the price, was paying £90 a month for 200gig originally that lasted some times a mere week with constant playstation 4 and xbox one patches.

Since there are not that many routers on the market that i like that have 2 sockets on the back for the installed EE antenna i do without using the outside source.

But i achieve around 22 meg download and that does me.

Another downside is the cable length they allow from the antenna been no more than i think is 5 metres.

Edited by time2die (Sun 23-Feb-20 12:25:19)