Smarty APN vs. 3 APN

Does anybody know what the difference (if any) is between using the 3 APN and Smarty's APN setting detailed here?

In reference to help.smarty.co.uk/en/articles/1155220-using-the-internet-after-you-...:

General APN settings:

Name: 3
APN: mob.asm.net
User name: [leave this field blank]
Password: [leave this field blank]
MMSC: http://mms.um.three.co.uk:10021/mmsc
MMS proxy: mms.three.co.uk
MMS port: 8799
APN type: [leave this field blank]

Non, you could put Donald Duck in the APN name and it’ll still work . All data is filtered via same link regardless. This differs from Three where the APN does make a difference.

May I ask what the difference (if known) with APN on 3 is?

I see a Hotspot one !

On Three one of the APN’s is designed for mobile routers and allocates you an actual IPv4 address so you are not behind CGNAT. It also used to remove content blocking and can give lower ping as traffic isn’t being analysed as heavily. The usual one designed for phones is behind CGNAT and has content blocking enabled. People find it marginally slower ping wise. Might be a few other differences but these are the main ones.

Hmm. That could be helpful, so I guess the hotspot one might help me with the fixed IPv4?

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Hmm. That could be helpful, so I guess the hotspot one might help me with the fixed IPv4?

Not quite sure what you mean by hotspot one. But if you use 3internet rather than three.co.uk you should get non CGNAT so long as you are on 3 and not Smarty.

Hmm.. I do beleive i was using the 3internet apn when I first signed up for mobile broadband and Im pretty sure I was still behind CGNAT.

I shall have to experiment if my following trial of Vodafone don't work out.

You can put what you like in the APN but, depending on your subscribed service, Three will redirect you to the "correct" APN anyway. So, you can configure 3internet and still be behind CGNAT.

In reply to a post by inetuid:

You can put what you like in the APN but, depending on your subscribed service, Three will redirect you to the "correct" APN anyway. So, you can configure 3internet and still be behind CGNAT.

I think it depends on the device you are using to connect rather than the subscription. For example on Three PAYG and Three sim only phone plan using 3internet in a Huawei B525 gives the non CGNAT service.

It's likely that if they detect the device is a phone they re-route though.

In reply to a post by gary333:

I think it depends on the device you are using to connect rather than the subscription.

and if you're using a Smarty SIM, the bets are off, this is a truely discount service, and you get hit with CGNAT and I believe a transparet proxy for web traffic, to reduce their costs.

I would agree but I have just run some tests on my smarty sim in a Samsung S10e and wasn’t getting much above a few meg using the ‘three.co.uk’ APN but when switching to ‘3internet’ APN I immediately got a boost up to 20-30mbps ....

I seem to have a hostname too, but not sure if this is just CGNAT.

Made no difference to me on Smarty whichever APN I used. You certainly couldn't get shut of the CGNAT from their service. I tried lots of things over the year I had it too.

Three network is unpredictable and temperamental recently. You should change back and see if it drops again. Could just have disconnected the data service momentarily leading to you hitting a different frequency band that was near capacity.

You know you're on CGNAT if your assigned IP address in the router is different to your publicly visible one.

Edited by gary333 (Thu 09-Jul-20 14:52:12)

Three's network certainly is an odd ball!

So I have the Smarty sim in my router now on test, its performing much better than the three sim that came with it did..... hoping it will hold up for a while, the EE sim is great but the limit of 1TB and 12 devices is problematic and I might upgrade to a 5G phone with EE so gonna need that sim.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Three's network certainly is an odd ball!

So I have the Smarty sim in my router now on test, its performing much better than the three sim that came with it did..... hoping it will hold up for a while, the EE sim is great but the limit of 1TB and 12 devices is problematic and I might upgrade to a 5G phone with EE so gonna need that sim.

If you’re using a router you are only using one device technically lol. Don’t worry about that anyway its only a clause to allow them to kick the pee takers using it for business / commercial use on their network

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Three's network certainly is an odd ball!

Built cheap, sold cheap! Now trying to increase investment and discovering it takes years. Remember with Smarty you have a (old railways) 3rd class ticket. Lots of things are unavailable to you to get the lowest price. Smarty, along with Voxi (from Vodafone) were intended for handset use by the younger generation whom seem to use social media for a living.

So I have the Smarty sim in my router now on test, its performing much better than the three sim that came with it did..... hoping it will hold up for a while, the EE sim is great but the limit of 1TB and 12 devices is problematic and I might upgrade to a 5G phone with EE so gonna need that sim.

The fact you are getting faster doesn't mean the Three SIM was slower, just that it is faster right now.

Radio internet is not as predictable as wired. The sun can come out and your speeds shoot up because half the coverage area has gone to town / beach / shops / out for food (etc)

Yes, tested this and correct...

I've put the EE sim back in now, also behind CGNAT no bet, Smarty performed ok until about 5.30 and then it couldn't cope.

Well aware of the differences, when I say speeds however, I mean headline speeds, if EE tops out at 50MB in the afternoon its likely to still be hitting 20mbps in the evening...

if Three is topping out at 40 in the afternoon I'm likely to be watching freeview in the evening.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Well aware of the differences, when I say speeds however, I mean headline speeds, if EE tops out at 50MB in the afternoon its likely to still be hitting 20mbps in the evening...

if Three is topping out at 40 in the afternoon I'm likely to be watching freeview in the evening.

Interesting. Before the pandemic, here I could get 100 to 150 Mbps on a Saturday lunchtime, and then 60 Mbps in the evenings. Now in a day lunchtime, good to hit 40 Mbps, and in the evenings around 10 to 15 Mbps. Mast is in the centre of a large residential estate, which had for years poor service from VO2, so EE got a lot of customers. This mast has two carriers of B3 transmitting, but would need new panels to transmit anything additional, so I'm not expecting any hardware upgrade until 5G arrives.

Which given the pandemic, I've put back to 2025. And we were quite early on with EE's 4G (launched in 2012) and this mast was upgraded around spring 2013.

Huawei kit in the mobile network could also be a brake on 5G rollout.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Huawei kit in the mobile network could also be a brake on 5G rollout.

Could be a problem for all networks, but I gather Three was on a major switch from an underperforming vendor to Huawei for both 4G and 5G. Other networks have a mix of manufacturers but a large amount of Huawei.

This on twitter from earlier this week, thread starts with BBC's Rory C.J, and then this :
https://twitter.com/PedroClarke1/status/128117221335...

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Interesting. Before the pandemic, here I could get 100 to 150 Mbps on a Saturday lunchtime, and then 60 Mbps in the evenings. Now in a day lunchtime, good to hit 40 Mbps, and in the evenings around 10 to 15 Mbps. Mast is in the centre of a large residential estate, which had for years poor service from VO2, so EE got a lot of customers. This mast has two carriers of B3 transmitting, but would need new panels to transmit anything additional, so I'm not expecting any hardware upgrade until 5G arrives.

Which given the pandemic, I've put back to 2025. And we were quite early on with EE's 4G (launched in 2012) and this mast was upgraded around spring 2013.

I can say I've noticed similar with the speeds pre and post lockdown.... I also noticed EE changed the PCI on all the cells in my area, not sure why they did that, assuming a software change somewhere.

I'm in a similar situation, also on a housing estate however all networks masts along the outskirts of the estate to the one side, and with the geography of the land it makes indoor signals terrible, this estate also going through regeneration so lots of new housing being built along the side nearer the masts, can only assume this will have a detrimental impact on the network performance.

This situation with Huawei kit will sure being interesting, specially for networks heavily built on Huawei.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I can say I've noticed similar with the speeds pre and post lockdown.... I also noticed EE changed the PCI on all the cells in my area, not sure why they did that, assuming a software change somewhere.

Possibly, or a change of radio unit or an item in the cab to enable additional bands. If you're getting usable Band 7, then it may be the second B3 carrier was added, or the second Band 7.

I'm in a similar situation, also on a housing estate however all networks masts along the outskirts of the estate to the one side, and with the geography of the land it makes indoor signals terrible, this estate also going through regeneration so lots of new housing being built along the side nearer the masts, can only assume this will have a detrimental impact on the network performance.

With new builds people come with their existing phones which are in contract, so it takes time to see the load increase on the networks that are better in that geography. Many people jump network for price and handset deals, rather than coverage or speed.

This situation with Huawei kit will sure being interesting, specially for networks heavily built on Huawei.

Even if the Govt said they would buy all the Huawei products, I assume the others in the industry wouldn't be able manufacture enough, fast enough, to meet the global demand.

And does the Govt mean ALL Huawei items, from the FTTC & G.Fast modems, to the ONT's in FTTP areas, to the antenna panels, remote radio units, and cabinet items? This is a LOT of kit, many billions of pounds.

I can see the wrong communication causing lawsuits that goes straight to the Supreme Court.

Hmm, possibly added an an extra band 7!

Visually I don't see any new panels or additional panels, but possible they added the 15mhz addition of 2600, possibly also preparing to refarm an aditional 5mhz into B3 from 2G.

A good upgrade would be refarming some B1 too but I don't think its required personally,capacity seems good but the mast as a whole currently seems to be struggling to stay alive for some reason, currently using a B3+B3 (MBNL) mast 1.3KM away at the moment.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Hmm, possibly added an an extra band 7!

Visually I don't see any new panels or additional panels, but possible they added the 15mhz addition of 2600, possibly also preparing to refarm an aditional 5mhz into B3 from 2G.

For an addition of a band already transmitting there wouldn't need to be any panel changes, and sometimes this can be done by software update remotely, depending on the hardware in the cabinets.

A good upgrade would be refarming some B1 too but I don't think its required personally,capacity seems good but the mast as a whole currently seems to be struggling to stay alive for some reason, currently using a B3+B3 (MBNL) mast 1.3KM away at the moment.

It may not make sense in all areas, given EE (and Three) don't have any 900 spectrum, if there are a lot of people with older 3G only devices in your area, they will want to keep this going. I haven't seen B1 around here. I suspect the 3G usage is still too high - most likely phones handed down to teenagers.

Hmm, this is true, this area probably still pretty reliant on 3G due to signal strengths, I've seen B1 in mostly shopping areas so makes sense.

Hopefully they refarm an additional 5mhz into B3 on the MBNL mast I'm currently connected too, will make for more reliable connection and just focus the router and potential external antenna on it.

Ordered Sky Q last night as streaming linear TV on Now TV is becoming a ball ache, also when I factored the cost of netflix being covered and the cost of Now TV the offer I got was pretty good, and I'm using a satellite currently to get Premier Sports.

Would love to know if anybody has any experiance using the Poyntin XPOL1 with a B535 though.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Would love to know if anybody has any experiance using the Poyntin XPOL1 with a B535 though.

Most people on here who have tried using that antenna with a B525/B535 have reported it made hardly any difference. It probably would make more difference if it didn't have a 5m cable on, but it cannot be removed so if you shorten it you'd be out of luck in future.

In reply to a post by gary333:

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Would love to know if anybody has any experiance using the Poyntin XPOL1 with a B535 though.

Most people on here who have tried using that antenna with a B525/B535 have reported it made hardly any difference. It probably would make more difference if it didn't have a 5m cable on, but it cannot be removed so if you shorten it you'd be out of luck in future.

I did reckon it would suffer from the cable but as long as it no worse I'm up for getting one.

I'm wanting to relocated the router to the utilities cupboard in my porch, I've got this connected with 2 CAT6 cables to main switch in the house ready for when Openreach pull there finger out and finish the FTTP rollout in the area.

However signal will be near non-existant however putting an antenna outside on top of the ajoining garage will most likely be fine based on signals phones get outdoors.

I tried Smarty. Cheaper than Three, so why not?

Well, I know why not now! The IP is a natted one, not a public one. But never mind.

The routing was all over the place and latency was even worse than with Three, but hard to debug because most hops don't respond to pings.

What really pee'd me off was that the IP changed after 30 to 90 seconds, to the next IP up, leaving ssh or sftp connections hanging until they timed out. Then another half minutes later, the IP switched back. So they timed out again.

Smarmy support told me that "we don't guarantee a fixed IP" and "we recycle unused IPs" and wouldn't investigate at all, so I don't know if I was seeing a fault or if it is always that awful.

In fairness, when I cancelled there and then, they promised a refund, which did eventually arrive. Six weeks later.

I had tried various APN settings in Smarty, but all clearly used the same APN.

However, when I left the Smarty APN set and put a Three sim back in, it was just as awful, until I switched to a Three APN. Then it was back to perfectly fine, immediately.

So it looks as if Smarty ignore the APN you set and use their useless one.

In reply to a post by hoopla:

Well, I know why not now! The IP is a natted one, not a public one. But never mind.

Very few networks give public IP, on Vodafone and EE you are always behind carrier grade NAT unless you are a business.

I had tried various APN settings in Smarty, but all clearly used the same APN.

Whatever you configure ignored, which reduces support calls.

However, when I left the Smarty APN set and put a Three sim back in, it was just as awful, until I switched to a Three APN.

Three have two APNs, and I guess you're using their public IP one, originally intended for mobile broadband.

So it looks as if Smarty ignore the APN you set and use their useless one.

Not surprising. Look at the price!

So I'm looking at my connection using PingPlotter, pinging pingbox1.

I'm losing 50-52% packets on two internal looking IP's (10.124.**.***) before hitting EE's servers where I'm losing 3-4% before losing 6% at LINX...

This is with my EE sim, I also saw issue with Three but though "meh its three" is this normal thing to see?

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

is this normal thing to see?

I'm not familiar with ping plotter, but do you lose pings to the end, or just in the middle ?

If its just the middle routers that is normal. If you are losing pings to the end, then perhaps you have a signal issue?

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I'm losing 50-52% packets on two internal looking IP's (10.124.**.***) before hitting EE's servers where I'm losing 3-4% before losing 6% at LINX...

The 50% could be completely normal. Your packets are likely to have the option of taking different routes though some parts of the providers network. If there are two such routes through and on one of the routes the a router is set to not respond to pings, then you'd see roughly 50% loss from that section of the route.

PingPlotter is a great tool, but the way it works can lead to people focussing on the wrong things. For those that haven't used it, it basically combines ping and traceroute, in that it pings all the hops on the route and gives you nice graphical output.

The important thing is how many packets make it to the end, there is often less to be learned from ping packets not returned from routers in the middle.

It is hard to compare the packet loss along the route, as some of it might be "real" packet loss, with your packets not reaching the end host you are pinging and some of it from the intermediate hops might just be those hops deciding they don't have time to respond to pings aimed at them. It is perfectly normal for routers to drop some or all ping packets aimed at them (as opposed to the ones aimed at a host they are routing packets towards).

However 6% of packet loss end-to-end isn't a great indication of a well working unloaded Internet connection.

I've just been running PingPlotter against pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com and I see ~4% packet loss from linx-gw1.thn.ncuk.net

But that particular metric doesn't mean there is anything wrong with my connection as a whole, that just means linx-gw1.thn.ncuk.net has better things to do than to respond to every ping packet aimed at it.

I don't have any packet loss from pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com though.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

is this normal thing to see?

I'm not familiar with ping plotter, but do you lose pings to the end, or just in the middle ?

If its just the middle routers that is normal. If you are losing pings to the end, then perhaps you have a signal issue?

No rightly pointed out, no overall packet loss, just the steps not responding to ICMP requests I guess.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

No rightly pointed out, no overall packet loss, just the steps not responding to ICMP requests I guess.

Yes, major routers are designed to route the traffic, which is quite different to reciving the traffic itself and responding. It is deliberate.