Whats going on with three/smarty

Having a lot of issues with work VPN. Grabbed a copy of LTE-H monitor to find my IP is changing way too often. Anyone else seeing this ?

07/11/2020 11:30:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.9 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:31:12 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.12 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:31:42 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.15 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:32:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.24 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:33:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.21 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:33:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.12 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:34:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:36:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:36:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:38:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.12 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:39:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:40:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:40:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:41:41 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:42:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.12 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:43:11 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:44:12 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:44:45 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.9 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:45:18 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:46:53 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:47:22 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:50:22 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:51:22 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:51:23 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:51:52 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.9 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:51:53 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.12 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:52:59 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.1 VPN-Down
07/11/2020 11:54:37 PublicIP 0 New public IP address : 92.40.182.4 VPN-Down

I was seeing this for a day or two last week, but not for a while. Are you using the 3internet APN, or three.co.uk?

edit: If you're using Smarty, the APN is ignored. If you want a "real" IP address, without CGNAT, you need to buy a service branded Three.

Edited by richi (Sat 07-Nov-20 16:10:03)

I’m
Using the smarty one mob.asm.net
I have tried the three ones and get similar issues

In reply to a post by alunj:

I have tried the three ones and get similar issues

If your SIM is from Smarty then the APN you set is ignored. You would need to buy from Three to have control. (and a better experience). Smarty is bargain basement, not really intended for home working.

Thanks for that info
Why do they ask you to change the apn ?
Just asking . I’m getting completely teed off with issues at the mo . We have a three mobile bb som in a router in a remote spot. Thee are now blocking the vpn completely

If anyone has a good recommendation for a mobile broadband sim only deal I’m
All ears as my smarty will renew shortly

In reply to a post by alunj:

Why do they ask you to change the apn ?

On the actual Three network (with a Three SIM) you have two different APNs, one which gives you a normal internet address as on fixed line broadband, so you can set up port forwarding if needed. The other APN is the same as the other mobile networks, which use Carrier Grade NAT (CGNAT). You can think of this as if your connection is behind a router that the ISP runs, where you cannot change any settings or do port forward.

OpenVPN, Cisco AnyConnect and others all work over EE, Vodafone, and Three mobile. Not sure what your VPN is and why it is having problems, but it may be it is a problem VPN?

I understand the CGNAT stuff but still not sure why smarty (which is really three) ask you to set the apn to mob.asm.net . Are you saying it completely ignores that becuase I see completly different egress IPs on it compared to the other APN

The other VPN is PPTP on a 3 mobile BB package in a draytek.

My work VPN on smarty is Junos Pulse (SSL) I don't think it likes the rapid changes of IP

In reply to a post by alunj:

I understand the CGNAT stuff but still not sure why smarty (which is really three) ask you to set the apn to mob.asm.net . Are you saying it completely ignores that becuase I see completly different egress IPs on it compared to the other APN

The other VPN is PPTP on a 3 mobile BB package in a draytek.

My work VPN on smarty is Junos Pulse (SSL) I don't think it likes the rapid changes of IP

Yes, smarty ignore the APN. You could put “three stink” and it’ll still work.

In reply to a post by alunj:

not sure why smarty (which is really three) ask you to set the apn to mob.asm.net .

They ask you to set it, but whatever you set they force all traffic to use it.

Smarty is a "virtual operator" on the Three physical network. This means they get to use the mobile signal, but once your data is over the air, it is routed differently to Three traffic. It

Are you saying it completely ignores that becuase I see completly different egress IPs on it compared to the other APN

Difficult to tell as quite possible Smarty have a lot of IP addresses that jump around. They may even share egress IP's with Three, however have very different traffic management between UE and internet. Given the price, I think Smarty are using HTTPS proxying, which Three do not.

The other VPN is PPTP on a 3 mobile BB package in a draytek.

Uhh, PPTP isn't great. Not really encrypted.

My work VPN on smarty is Junos Pulse (SSL) I don't think it likes the rapid changes of IP

Could also be the transparent HTTPS proxy.

So Replying to myself, I splashed out on the licence for LTE-H monitor
And here is the odd thing , when it moved to another mast its stops.
Only on my local mast does this happen, moving the CPE Pro so it attaches to a different mast seems to have stopped the issue.
I'm back to 60 m down low latency and long leases .
Very odd ; I didn't think it could be a mast thing but who knows how the backhaul works !

I'm still keen for recommendations for "proper" mobile BB so I can run some webcams etc and Ideally loose the CGNAT.

EE/BT looks good but the cost is mad . I burn 60-100 G a month

In reply to a post by alunj:

Very odd ; I didn't think it could be a mast thing but who knows how the backhaul works !

Not normally backhaul where congestion happens. Normally on the radio interface. (You to mast). More people at home during lockdown increases the amount of 'connections' to the mast, as well as people using data.

I'm still keen for recommendations for "proper" mobile BB so I can run some webcams etc and Ideally loose the CGNAT.

I believe only Three sell mobile broadband without CGNAT. The other majors (EE, Vodafone, O2) do not unless you are a corporate and want to spent a LOT of money. The only alternative is to use a service such as that from AAISP whom sell their L2TP tunnel. You would set up hardware in your home to make the tunnel to AAISP whom would assign you both an IPv4 and IPv6 to your end point. It is similar in concept to a VPN but it is not encrypted, so if your mobile ISP was doing "deep packet inspection" they could in theory still see the payload.

EE/BT looks good but the cost is mad . I burn 60-100 G a month

Is there really no fixed line option?
You can get a SIM only from EE with 200GB of data (4G only) for £25/month on a 24 month contract:
https://shop.ee.co.uk/sim-only/pay-monthly-phones#

Remember EE is still inbound restricted, CGNAT on IPv4, and they block inbound on IPv6, if your device is recognised as compatible with v6, not all are assigned.

There is no restriction on putting a "phone" SIM into a data device anymore. Three tried this and Ofcom showed them the regulations. Three then stopped. I have had a Vodafone voice SIM in my iPad for 6 months.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 08-Nov-20 13:26:58)

I tried Smarty a few months ago. SSH sessions kept hanging, then I discovered that it was changing my IP address about every 30 seconds, then changing back 30 seconds later.

Made no difference what APN I set, it used the Smarty one.

I contacted Smarty support, who parroted that they "don't offer a fixed IP" and that they "reuse unused IP addresses". Pointing out that I was using the IP cut no ice. I never did find out whether this was a fault or whether it is meant to be like that.

I cancelled and (eventually) got my money back.

Switching to a Three sim made no difference, until I switched to a Three APN, which fixed the problem instantly.

It was using the same cell and channel for both. All that was different was the network backhaul.

Of course, with Three you get a routable, public IP.
With Smarty, it's a NATted private one.

Smarty is a very much worse service for only a little less money. A bad choice, in my view.

Edited by hoopla (Sun 08-Nov-20 14:54:48)

In reply to a post by hoopla:

All that was different was the network backhaul.

Backhaul is a term normally used to mean the connection from the mast to the core. This is the same for any "brand" using a Three radio signal. What happens at the core network depends on which SIM you are using. Smarty is probably sharing more users per IP than Three, to save money, and pass those savings on to the price.

That it is a very small saving makes most people wonder why they bothered. (Given Smarty is fully owned by Three, in the same way that GiffGaff is owned by Telefonica UK).

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Smarty is probably sharing more users per IP than Three, to save money, and pass those savings on to the price.

That it is a very small saving makes most people wonder why they bothered. (Given Smarty is fully owned by Three, in the same way that GiffGaff is owned by Telefonica UK).

With Three, you get a public, routable IP. It's not shared at all, as far as I know. I don't understand how that could be shared.

I agree: GiffGaff is even worse than O2 in my experience.

In reply to a post by hoopla:

With Three, you get a public, routable IP. It's not shared at all, as far as I know. I don't understand how that could be shared.

With Three it depends which APN you use. One of them gives a public routable IPv4, intended for broadband, the other is behind CGNAT, intended for phone handsets.

Wireguard to a VPS somewhere might also work, it doesn't really care about the source IP of the incoming packet as long as the encryption is as expected.

Although it will send any response back to the same IP it received the last packet from so not sure how nicely that will play with the CGNAT cycling IP's

In reply to a post by dragon2611:

Wireguard to a VPS somewhere might also work, it doesn't really care about the source IP of the incoming packet as long as the encryption is as expected. Although it will send any response back to the same IP it received the last packet from so not sure how nicely that will play with the CGNAT cycling IP's

The only gotcha will be that many VPS outbound IPs are on block lists for services such as Netflix, iPlayer etc, due to the ease of "self build VPN". I used to run OpenVPN on a VPS