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Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Jan-21 06:34:48
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VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[link to this post]
 
If Virgin media use EE network then why is Virgin media 4G faster than EE?

I have a Samsung galaxy s20 Fe and I have a sim From EE and VM.

I have noticed over the past 3 months that VM is consistently faster. And by a lot. I can get right now 80mbps on my VM sim but only a few Mbps on my EE sim.

What's that all about?

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Jan-21 09:14:04
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
If you have wifi active on your phone it could be using your VM "cable" even though you have EE selected for your mobile data.

Try the comparison with it off. Or anywhere not at home.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 02-Jan-21 09:15:05)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Jan-21 12:30:44
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
What's that all about?

What price plan is your EE SIM? Is it PAYG ?
If you are using multiple SIMs in the same phone, have you tested with the VM sim disabled?

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM


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Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Jan-21 13:37:15
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
From my tests the Virgin 4G maxes out at 80Mb/s....

As for why the EE sim would be slower..... EE does limit the 4G services on Pay As You Go and different level tariffs on Sim Only and Contract...

Do you know what tariff you are on with EE?

I'm not sure how EE limit their plans speeds but maybe its by restricting LTE-A (bonding more than one frequency) or using smaller widths of frequencies which if is the case could be why Virgin achieves more even though its restricted at network level.
Standard User CJ8
(member) Sat 02-Jan-21 14:51:31
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
From my tests the Virgin 4G maxes out at 80Mb/s...
That is consistent with their mobile traffic management policy, which says speed is capped at 85Mbps down and 35Mbps up.

The speed capping for EE is more sophisticated than restricting carrier aggregation. My essential sim will connect to 4CA (2x B3 + 2x B7) but maxes out at almost exactly 90Mbps. A smart sim in the same phone can reach 200Mbps off-peak.

Edited by CJ8 (Sat 02-Jan-21 14:52:46)

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Jan-21 14:56:33
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: CJ8] [link to this post]
 
OK, thanks for ruling that out, I've never been able to test as I had the max plans when I was with EE.

So kind of rules out busy cells/sectors then I guess.
Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 02:21:23
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
If I had Wi-Fi active on my phone and do the speed test I'd be getting 400 to 500 mb....

I'll have to do some swapping a SIM cards around and trying to adjust the EE sim see what happens.

My Virgin SIM is a SIM only plan at £10 a month and my my EE sim is on contract.

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sun 03-Jan-21 05:10:55
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
What plan is the EE contract?
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Jan-21 10:52:36
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
My Virgin SIM is a SIM only plan at £10 a month and my my EE sim is on contract.
Depending on the EE contract, there may be rate limiting going on. The price plan names change as often as clothing fashions.

Sometime in 2021 the Virgin SIM will move over to Vodafone, but I doubt that has happened yet.

What handsets are you using for these SIMs? Are they comparable in terms of 4G capabilities?

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sun 03-Jan-21 10:52:53)

Standard User steve195527
(member) Sun 03-Jan-21 10:58:14
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
If I had Wi-Fi active on my phone and do the speed test I'd be getting 400 to 500 mb....

I'll have to do some swapping a SIM cards around and trying to adjust the EE sim see what happens.

My Virgin SIM is a SIM only plan at £10 a month and my my EE sim is on contract.

re 400-500:-that would depend on what protocol your phone is using to connect to the wifi:-if it is using the 5ghz signal than you could expect 400-500 but if it is using the 2.4ghz band 80mb may be its max

Edited by steve195527 (Sun 03-Jan-21 10:59:46)

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Sun 03-Jan-21 16:32:42
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: steve195527] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by steve195527:
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
If I had Wi-Fi active on my phone and do the speed test I'd be getting 400 to 500 mb....

I'll have to do some swapping a SIM cards around and trying to adjust the EE sim see what happens.

My Virgin SIM is a SIM only plan at £10 a month and my my EE sim is on contract.

re 400-500:-that would depend on what protocol your phone is using to connect to the wifi:-if it is using the 5ghz signal than you could expect 400-500 but if it is using the 2.4ghz band 80mb may be its max


I think the point is they know the difference between testing LTE and WiFi.
Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 01:02:34
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
My Virgin SIM is a SIM only plan at £10 a month and my my EE sim is on contract.
Depending on the EE contract, there may be rate limiting going on. The price plan names change as often as clothing fashions.

Sometime in 2021 the Virgin SIM will move over to Vodafone, but I doubt that has happened yet.

What handsets are you using for these SIMs? Are they comparable in terms of 4G capabilities?


That would be O2 not Vodafone btw.

As for the "plan" I am on an EE Essential plan with my phone. 40gb data unlimited text/calls

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 07:24:29
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
That would be O2 not Vodafone btw.
Nope, the merger is not yet approved, and the Government investigation is ongoing.

Before the merger, VM announced they were moving to Vodafone for 5G and other reasons, and the VM website has just integrated the Vodafone 5G coverage checker.
As for the "plan" I am on an EE Essential plan with my phone. 40gb data unlimited text/calls
Some Essential plans were limited to maximum speeds. It might tell you in MyEE. In the past PAYG was limited to 30 Mbps, so I would have thought you would get more than this. Unless there is a fault of course.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Mon 04-Jan-21 07:25:11)

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Jan-21 10:09:42
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
Thought just occurred....

The EE sim could be connecting to band 20 (800mhz) where the Virgin sim will be restricted from using that band and forced to Band 3 (1800mhz)

Possibility that 800mhz is congested as it is already a low capacity band for data and is favoured by EE for extending coverage for voice calls over LTE.

I suggest you download ther CellMapper app from Play Store...

Once you have done that you need to take note of the 'eNB' and the 'Band Number'

Check this with both sims and if they are using the same band and mast then issue is elsewhere but likelihood is that the EE sim is using band 20 or possibly a different mast (eNB)
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 11:03:54
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I am pretty sure when I had an EE Essential plan that it was advertised as max speed of 60Mbps and that if you wanted more then you had to have a "smart" plan which would run at "full speed".
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 04-Jan-21 11:07:33
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
That would make sense of the name! smile

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 11:10:52
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The current 4G plans still say limited to 60Mbps with the higher speeds only available on the 5G plans (I am assuming the 5G plan gives access to the faster 4G speeds in areas where 5G is not available).
Standard User andynormancx
(committed) Mon 04-Jan-21 11:28:04
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
They seem to have totally mixed up their plans now.

It appears that there isn't an "unlimited" 4G only plan now. Looks like the only "unlimited" one is a 5G one at £33.30 a month ?

For reasons I can't fathom, their 10GB 4G plan is currently listed at £10/month, making it cheaper than both their 3GB and 1GB plans. Mobile providers and their pricing makes my head hurt.

My EE 4G "unlimited" plan that started in July 2020 is definitely not limited to 60Mbps, I regularly get over 80Mbps.

To add to the confusion, my £34/month plan is labelled on my account as "4G SIM Unlimited Plan £25". Did I mention mobile pricing confuses me...
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 12:30:33
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
I am pretty sure when I had an EE Essential plan that it was advertised as max speed of 60Mbps and that if you wanted more then you had to have a "smart" plan which would run at "full speed".
That is what I was thinking of, and this was a 2019 through to early 2020 offering. New plans don't seem to have this anymore. (maybe because too many people complained they couldn't get as fast as the cap!).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 12:33:58
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: andynormancx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andynormancx:
They seem to have totally mixed up their plans now.
Yes, the plans change every 6 months (or more often). Just like the fashion industry.
It appears that there isn't an "unlimited" 4G only plan now. Looks like the only "unlimited" one is a 5G one at £33.30 a month ?
Yes, like all the mobile operators the upsell is constant. They are all spending a few £bn so need high levels of regular income. Hence the push to more expensive 5G unlimited, than cheaper 4G unlimited.
For reasons I can't fathom, their 10GB 4G plan is currently listed at £10/month, making it cheaper than both their 3GB and 1GB plans. Mobile providers and their pricing makes my head hurt.
Deliberately to confuse. On paper bills for landlines that appeared to be BT plc policy in years past, no reason for EE to be any different, same company.
My EE 4G "unlimited" plan that started in July 2020 is definitely not limited to 60Mbps, I regularly get over 80Mbps.
My EE 5G plan from June 2020 has 100GB of data, but is also not limited. I now get 110 Mbps in my front room, but before Christmas was much slower, as more capacity has now been added to my local mast. (changes visible in Cellmapper).
To add to the confusion, my £34/month plan is labelled on my account as "4G SIM Unlimited Plan £25". Did I mention mobile pricing confuses me...
Billing system never catches up to the sales/marketing !

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 12:36:21
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
The EE sim could be connecting to band 20 (800mhz) where the Virgin sim will be restricted from using that band and forced to Band 3 (1800mhz)
Possible, but unlikely. I actually think VM is also able to use Band 20, but maybe only on iPhones. The OP hasn't posted the EE speeds, but just says "slow", so it is hard to tell. The band 20 allocation is only 5 MHz wide, compared to Band 3 which is at least 20 MHz, and in many areas there are multiple Band 3 transmissions (e.g. here we have 2 x 20 MHz ).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 04-Jan-21 12:55:26
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I think the unlimited 4G plan was a similar price to the current unlimited 5G plan. I am guessing they assume that only people who want to use the Internet a lot at speed want unlimited and therefore just offer the 5G plan.

I ended up moving from them to BT as I get the same for about half the price as I currently have my fibre with BT as well.
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Jan-21 21:20:30
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Possible, but unlikely. I actually think VM is also able to use Band 20, but maybe only on iPhones.


Virgin don't support Band 20 at all.
Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 04:39:17
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
I was out today and getting a better signal than I do inside but still close to my flat.

I was getting 35 ish mb on VM and 6 ish on EE. Disabling the VM sim or moving the EE sim to slot 2 where the VM sim was has made no change to the speeds.

I am checking Cellmapper but I am getting some wonkyness from the app having a dual sim so I am just testing and will post what it says when I wrap my head round it.

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 06:16:01
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
I was getting 35 ish mb on VM and 6 ish on EE. Disabling the VM sim or moving the EE sim to slot 2 where the VM sim was has made no change to the speeds.
That is certainly very odd, especially outdoors. Both speeds are not "good" for EE, so it will be interesting to see the network code your VM SIM is connected to. Otherwise its one to call EE about and say "why is it so slow".

Which dual SIM phone are you using? I use a OnePlus Nord, and turn off one of the SIMs when using testing tools to make it clearer.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User jonmorris
(newbie) Tue 05-Jan-21 11:00:03
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
The OnePlus Nord is a rebadged Realme/Oppo phone and when I've used some with dual network dual standby, I think I have discovered (unless it was pure coincidence) that when you have two SIMs - even if you disable one (but keep it inserted) the phone will not be able to support 4CA, just 2CA.

As a result, you may find a reduced speed on EE that, in many locations, now offers 4CA to provide the best speed. If you lose that ability, you'll potentially find yourself stuck to, say, 800 and 1800 instead of 1800+1800+2600+2600 or whatever.

Please feel free to shoot me down, but when I was testing with two SIMs I could never seem to get 4CA working - and it did when I removed the second (Three in this case) SIM.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 11:21:56
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jonmorris] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jonmorris:
The OnePlus Nord is a rebadged Realme/Oppo phone and when I've used some with dual network dual standby, I think I have discovered (unless it was pure coincidence) that when you have two SIMs - even if you disable one (but keep it inserted) the phone will not be able to support 4CA, just 2CA.

Interesting, and welcome to the forum! Mine is rooted, so I can run NSG.

Back before Christmas (in Tier 2 days), I was in Sussex in a much larger town with my OnePlus Nord, and it connected to 4CA on my PAYG EE SIM. (There is 5G in the town, but EE PAYG doesn't support 5G). The second SIM (Three) was disabled.

NSG screenshot to show:
https://postimg.cc/sGfc48VS

I also suspect if a phone was limited to 2CA that the mast would choose which CA pairs to use, as long as the phone supported them. B3+B3 is more likely than B3+B20 if two B3 is available.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Tue 05-Jan-21 11:26:04)

Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 16:48:52
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Samsung S20 FE

Here are some screen shots.

I had to use 1 sim at a time and reboot the phone in between changing sims as the app was being all wonko with both sims in and disabling one.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7t4AT25EjEbAAkwm6

I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking at tbh but here is what I think:

The Virgin Sim is using 1800Mhz as was posted & so is the EE Sim.

With both sim's in and working at the same time and when the app is not flipping out on me it also shows that both sims are using 1800Mhz

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 19:37:56
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
Samsung S20 FE
I had to use 1 sim at a time and reboot the phone in between changing sims as the app was being all wonko with both sims in and disabling one.
Sounds as if Samsung's support for multi-SIM is not quite the same as generic Android.
The Virgin Sim is using 1800Mhz as was posted & so is the EE Sim. With both sim's in and working at the same time and when the app is not flipping out on me it also shows that both sims are using 1800Mhz
Agreed, both SIMs are using Band 3 (1800 MHz) and the same transmission on the mast, EARFCN 1761 which is . They are using the same MAST with the same eNB (enhanced Node B) reference 15469.

1761 tells me this is the EE physical network with a 10 MHz transmission. Unfortunately those screen shots don't tell me if the phone is using two transmissions together (known as CA or carrier aggregation). Your phone is very new, so it WILL do the aggregation when needed, but normally drops to save power when not transferring data.

Checking up the eNB number on the cellmapper website shows me you are receiving signals from the mast on top of the BT exchange (ATE) in the city centre, right next to the Park Inn hotel. The website shows that the mast is transmitting two lots of Band 3 with 1617 at 20 MHz and 1761 at 10 MHz and is also transmitting Band 7 (2600 MHz) on 3350 at 20 MHz and 3179 at 15 MHz.

So EE has allocated 20+10 + 20 + 15 = 65 MHz of LTE capacity to that mast. As a city centre mast it is probably carrying a lot of customers and a LOT of load.

So the fact you are getting faster from Virgin Media than EE has to be down to the price plan that you have paid for.

When Virgin Media moves to Vodafone, there is also a Vodafone mast on the same roof, and Cellmapper shows there is Band 1 (2100mhz) at 10 MHz, and Band 20 (800 MHz) at 10 MHz, for a total capacity of 20 MHz.

So 45 MHz less than EE, so speeds will drop like a stone, unless Vodafone dramatically invest in capacity.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User Seansmit17
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 05-Jan-21 22:01:10
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Been messing around with the phone's settings and now both sims are slow as hell. Only getting a few mb.

In the middle of doing a factory reset and see what that gets me.

Virgin Media
Connection Speed: DL: 575Mbps UL: 38.5Mbps
Speed test: 550Mbps DL
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 06-Jan-21 07:59:08
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Re: VM 4g faster than EE??!!


[re: Seansmit17] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Seansmit17:
Been messing around with the phone's settings and now both sims are slow as hell. Only getting a few mb.
I doubt anything you can do to the phone will impact performance. More likely everyone is at home again due to lockdown 3. frown

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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