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Standard User simonh__
(legend) Fri 19-Mar-21 18:48:59
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Three 5G upload increase


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Hi everybody I've just started using a Three 5G connection on a CPE Pro router which is giving some utterly insane download speeds (touching on 600mbps!) but the upload speed is a "lowly" 30-40mbps

Is this normal? Can I, in some way, trade some of the download bandwith for upload? Would an external antenna help the upload speed?

TIA
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Mar-21 18:58:26
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by simonh__:
Is this normal? Can I, in some way, trade some of the download bandwith for upload? Would an external antenna help the upload speed?
Typically upload is based on how good the signal is from you to the mast. So try putting the router in a window facing the direction of the mast.

External antennas often cost a lot and make things worse, they would need to support the 3.4 GHz band for todays 5G deployment.

Does a 5G phone on Three outside your home get any better speeds? If not, then don't buy any antennas.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User gary333
(experienced) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:12:35
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by simonh__:
Is this normal? Can I, in some way, trade some of the download bandwith for upload? Would an external antenna help the upload speed?
Typically upload is based on how good the signal is from you to the mast. So try putting the router in a window facing the direction of the mast.

External antennas often cost a lot and make things worse, they would need to support the 3.4 GHz band for todays 5G deployment.

Does a 5G phone on Three outside your home get any better speeds? If not, then don't buy any antennas.


I thought Three used 4G for upload? If so, that’s where the difference is coming from 😊


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Standard User simonh__
(legend) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:20:06
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Hi Thanks for the reply. The router is on the first floor of the building right next to the wall which I think faces the mast (the wall is made up of just a sheet of plywood and cement board cladding) - would an external antenna not help?

I may try putting the router outside and seeing if that helps the u/l
Standard User simonh__
(legend) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:27:02
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
Really? This wasn't mentioned during the sign up process and according to their website under the "Technical" bit it states:

5G NSA Up to 1.65Gbps DL / 250Mbps UL (Theoretical value. Actual speeds will depend on network coverage)

They also repeated this on the phone so it's a bit naughty if that's not the case...
Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:30:56
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
About what I used to see on a 5G connected Vodafone Gigacube in central London. 10:1 download to upload. So yeah welcome to 5G in the UK.

More importantly what are your ping and jitter times like?

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User simonh__
(legend) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:41:28
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
Hi Thanks for the reply. Ping is 45ms and jitter 4.9ms. I don't think ping will be much of an issue as it's primarily being used as a link for a CCTV system (which so far has worked fine) so hence a bit more upload might come in handy if there are multiple users but it's certainly an improvement on the current 1mbps ADSL2
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:48:59
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: gary333] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gary333:
I thought Three used 4G for upload? If so, that’s where the difference is coming from 😊
Ha, quite possible, given we are in NSA configuration. I don't have coverage at home, so will have to drive out to nearest Three 5G area to test.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Mar-21 19:51:38
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by simonh__:
Really? This wasn't mentioned during the sign up process and according to their website under the "Technical" bit it states:
The modem you have can do this, and so that was not false. What the transmissions in the air can do can be something different, especially for a "mobile" network, they could have one configuration near you, and a different one in central London.

e.g. the Three 5G mast near me is only using 40 MHz of bandwidth, so speeds of 200 Mbps, but others are using the full 100 MHz and can give some insane speeds over 1 Gbps.

Upload in radio comms is one of the hardest things to sort, even on 4G (LTE) you find upload speeds are only using one channel, but you get 3 or 4 channels downlink.

It is still very early days for 5G in the UK, and all operators are still using Non Standalone Architecture (NSA) configuration, which means the modem has to also be connected to a 4G LTE signal.

Tmobile in the USA has managed to launch a Standalone Architecture (SA) deployment in 2020, which is quite impressive. This means no 4G signal is required.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Fri 19-Mar-21 19:52:35)

Standard User Pheasant
(experienced) Fri 19-Mar-21 20:02:11
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
Just had a look at some old speed tests. Used to typically get around 424 down, 40 up with 43ms ping and 4ms jitter.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User simonh__
(legend) Sat 20-Mar-21 08:33:02
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: Pheasant] [link to this post]
 
That's remarkably similar to what I've been getting here in Manchester!
Standard User simonh__
(legend) Sat 20-Mar-21 08:35:55
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply. How do you find out the mast operating frequency? Is this in the public domain?
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Mar-21 11:08:38
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by simonh__:
Thanks for the reply. How do you find out the mast operating frequency? Is this in the public domain?
All 5G in the UK on all networks is running on band n78, which is at 3500 and 3600 MHz. Each operator has a part of this spectrum.

If you are really into this stuff, if you get a rooted Qualcomm modem Android phone (e.g. Pixel, or OnePlus) you can run various apps that can show you what is being received. Unfortunately 5G is tricky to see on these apps, but 2G,3G,4G is easy as they are usable with a PAYG SIM. Easier to look at other people's postings.

The frequencies that the networks use are licensed by the government Office of Communications (Ofcom) whom have only just this week licensed (for £1.3bn !) more frequencies for the mobile networks to use to enhance coverage. Presumably to be used for 5G.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/features...
https://telecoms.com/509032/uk-extracts-another-1-36...

and this enthusiast site by Peter & Jake is awesome at showing the frequencies, known as bands owned by each mobile network operator:
https://pedroc.co.uk/content/uk-commercial-mobile-sp...

Have a look at some of Peter's YouTube videos as well:
https://www.youtube.com/user/scivids1999

It gets very complicated fast, much more complex than DSL smile

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Mar-21 11:13:37)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Mar-21 11:18:59
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: simonh__] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by simonh__:
Thanks for the reply. How do you find out the mast operating frequency? Is this in the public domain?


Here is a screen grab from my testing phone, showing my local Three 5G mast. For some odd reason Three have placed this on the dual carriageway bypass, nowhere near any homes. This shows the transmission is from network 234/20 which is Three UK, and on band N78 with the exact freq of 3608.22 MHz. There is another mast at the other end of the bypass which I believe has been allocated more spectrum. Not been there yet.

This is using a PAYG SIM, and speed tests showed 250 Mbps.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRyF3X7f/Three-n78-40mhz-202103...

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User wolvesmad
(knowledge is power) Mon 22-Mar-21 11:29:09
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Have you found a way of seeing the bandwidth allocation on NR yet?

-

SkyUltrafast FTTP 150
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 22-Mar-21 12:03:01
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
Have you found a way of seeing the bandwidth allocation on NR yet?
The link in my previous post shows 40 MHz on that mast. I managed 200 Mbps speed test download.

I found another mast about 10 miles away which has 100 MHz of bandwidth. I managed 500 Mbps speed test download.

I'm using a rooted OnePlus Nord with a Three PAYG SIM, and the app is "Network Signal Guru" but you may need the paid version of that app to get the 5G NR support.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User wolvesmad
(knowledge is power) Mon 22-Mar-21 15:36:35
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Ahh I have a Nord but use it as a daily driver so can't really root it at the moment.

Shame Cellmapper, G-NetTrack etc can't show bandwidth allocations on NR.

-

SkyUltrafast FTTP 150
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 22-Mar-21 16:10:15
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Re: Three 5G upload increase


[re: wolvesmad] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by wolvesmad:
Shame Cellmapper, G-NetTrack etc can't show bandwidth allocations on NR.
That's a limitation caused by the Non Standalone Architect deployment of 5G NR today, and if we get Standalone Architecture then I hope we will see the feature pop up in Cellmapper and similar. Only a few networks globally have deployed SA.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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