Locating cells

Following this post https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/mobilebroadband/t/... I invested in an Android phone and have downloaded Network Cell Info Lite, Cell Mapper, LTE Discovery, OpenSignal.

Some apps locate the same tower in different locations. It appears that NCIL (and the other apps) don't have a map of towers but use observed data from other users to determine the approx location of the cell. https://www.m2catalyst.com/manual and https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/questionable-gsm-tow...

Our smallish town (22k people) is linear in design following a valley, with the railway, canal and a bypass on the top of the valley. Cellmapper shows the towers to be on the railway line. Most of the "observations" must be from the railway passengers.

I guess I don't need to know the tower location and could just use the gauge / signal strength info (inside / outside the property) from the apps to determine the "best" network for my area - or is this too over simplistic?

Am I right in thinking that emergency calls are routed via any available mobile operator - and not the one that matches the installed SIM?

I'm looking to provide emergency access if FTTP/DV fails due to power failure etc.

In reply to a post by BarkingMad:

Our smallish town (22k people) is linear in design following a valley, with the railway, canal and a bypass on the top of the valley. Cellmapper shows the towers to be on the railway line. Most of the "observations" must be from the railway passengers.

CellMapper is 'crowd sourced' so that is quite likely. If are willing to share the town name, then others can look at the info on the cellmapper.net website to see. If you have cell ID numbers for any network it would be of interest, but not essential.

Not all the Android apps are reliable CellMapper comes highly recommended from people around the globe for using the Android API's correctly and then running their own mapping system. They also have subscription for those of us interested in improving the tool.

The other apps are generally 'guessing' and often get it wrong. My local Vodafone mast is to the west of my home, but three Android apps have arrows pointing east. Nothing there, so I assume these apps are written by researchers whom are no longer interested in the apps.

If you have a business email mast data seems accurate. 7 day trial

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

If you have a business email mast data seems accurate. 7 day trial

Yeah, mastdata I thought was itself just going through the planning applications? It started with a dump from the original Ofcom sitefinder that shut down.

Thanks ukhardy07 - I don't have a business.

jchamier - here is some info which is delimited by # which I've gathered from cellmapper.net

Operator#Tower ENB ID#Status#Comments#Physical tower location#
Voda#520760#Green#Building in close proximity with antenna #51.75545017395056, -0.5609061073453023#
Voda#524515#Green#At end of the railway station car park#51.7645313150392, -0.5662490676880103#
Voda#512494#Green#Billet lane bridge - north#51.76731339785693, -0.5769028018662451#
O2#512494#Green#Billet lane bridge - south#51.76695153759765, -0.5772997687446068#
O2#524515#Green#At end of the railway station car park#51.7645313150392, -0.5662490676880103#
O2#520760#Green#Building in close proximity with antenna #51.75545017395056, -0.5609061073453023#
EE#13283#Red#Cannot see a tower in this area##
EE#35710#Red#Seems to be on the railway line near billet lane##
EE#13006#Red#Seems to be near to end of station car park, but on the railway line##
EE#31635#Green#On the water tower#51.7545369782738, -0.5798264096864948#
Three#7174#Green#On the industrial estate#51.76890004223936, -0.5819391657920145#
Three#3543#Green#On a building in town#51.761228379569644, -0.5675317447206822#

My Iphone (with EE) says I receive service from 3400449 Cell 1 and 3400452 Cell 4 which is associated with the red ENB ID 13283

Please note, FTTP is not available in my area, although I did see Hey! pulling fibre in the BT pavement ducts yesterday, so perhaps this will make OR consider us for FTTP. I was learning how to use the different apps so I could help parents when I visit then for their BT FTTP/DV install early in June. They are with PlusNet Mobile but I believe they are closing the mobile side. The default alternative would be EE but it would be more expensive - hence the investigation.

I suppose I could get on my bike and cycle around town collecting signal data to improve the cellmapper view. It's strange I cannot physically see the EE masts - I have looked.

Do you have android? Believe it’s free for android app use as an individual?

I've found two of the EE towers and will look for the third later.

EE 35710 is physically located just north east of Voda/O2 512494. It is about 180m from its derived location.
EE 13283 (a small Orange PCS mast) is approx 1000m south of where Cellmapper thinks it is located.

I need to use CellMapper more before I can move the masts.

I found them by walking along, looking at the signal strength with CM / CellID. Is there a better method?

I think 13283 is near the rail line behind Audley House on he Northbridge Industrial estate.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.768439,-0.5824477,3a...

In reply to a post by BarkingMad:

jchamier - here is some info which is delimited by # which I've gathered from cellmapper.net

As you can see the long Cell ID is complex as you have frequency(band), and sector. Typically most cell sites have 3 sectors from each mast. The eNB (enhanced Node B) is the LTE (4G) reference for the entire site, not just the sector.

Thanks for the numbers will have a look.

PS: Others can move cell sites

In reply to a post by skandia2:

I think 13283 is near the rail line behind Audley House on he Northbridge Industrial estate.

Agreed, thank you for the street view link. I've updated Cellmapper. Obviously positioned for railway coverage.

Wow! How do you determine the true location for looking at the cellmapper data?


I've just walked upto Audley House. The signal wasn't great on the approach. When we used Three we had good signals in that area. Cellmapper says there is a Three site at the same location. I thought Voda/O2 shared sites but wasn't aware of Three/EE.

There was an old noticeboard with T-Mobile 91922 Audley House, so it is an EE site. The tower is in the corner of the car park at the rear
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7688569,-0.5818894...

This was the location of what I thought was EE 13283

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7633745,-0.5839844...

It has Orange PCS on the other side of the cabinet. Is it a low power cell?

This link shows what I think is EE 35710 -

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.767356,-0.5769809,...

The EE labels says BILLET LANE SW 78395. There's a "micro dish" on the pole, and it points into town - possibly to EE 13006?

Perhaps the location of EE 13006 is also shared with Three and is on top of the building.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7608402,-0.568085,...

If not, then I'm at a loss as to the actual location.

Thanks for all your help

In reply to a post by BarkingMad:

Wow! How do you determine the true location for looking at the cellmapper data?

From home? Google street view and google satellite view, and then work out as close as possible where to drag it on cellmapper. This helps the algorithm that cell mapper is using from people running the Android app. If I was closer, I'd drive over and drive around the location as close to the mast as possible so the algorithm could GPS align. I'm miles away sadly.

I've just walked upto Audley House. The signal wasn't great on the approach. When we used Three we had good signals in that area. Cellmapper says there is a Three site at the same location. I thought Voda/O2 shared sites but wasn't aware of Three/EE.

Three and EE both jointly own the mast management company MBNL (goes back to around 2008) and for 3G they both shared a lot of equipment, but for 4G and 5G they have separate equipment cabinets, just share the physical mast and the antennas. Vodafone and O2 have a jointly owned mast management company called Cornerstone, or CTIL, but have their own equipment cabinets. This is to share physical locations, and increase national coverage for all.

There was an old noticeboard with T-Mobile 91922 Audley House, so it is an EE site. The tower is in the corner of the car park at the rear
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7688569,-0.5818894...
This was the location of what I thought was EE 13283

I wouldn't trust the number on the noticeboard with anything you see electronic. The site number may have been correct for finding the site back when T-Mobile ran things, but that was before 4G and there is no connection with a site number and the eNB number you are getting from cellmapper over 4G. eNB for 4G/LTE, and a different number for 3G or 5G.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7633745,-0.5839844...

It has Orange PCS on the other side of the cabinet. Is it a low power cell?

With that single equipment cabinet, and an Orange logo, its most likely a switched off old Orange 2G mast that EE is no longer using. Do you get a signal from it?

This link shows what I think is EE 35710 -

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.767356,-0.5769809,...

The EE labels says BILLET LANE SW 78395. There's a "micro dish" on the pole, and it points into town - possibly to EE 13006?

The microdish is a microwave network link but other than looking in that direction for another mast (maybe on the roof of a building) its not necessarily that helpful.

Perhaps the location of EE 13006 is also shared with Three and is on top of the building.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7608402,-0.568085,...

If not, then I'm at a loss as to the actual location.

Could be easily shared, but they'd use different eNB and cell site numbers for each network. That last site on the block of flats looks to be covering the high street / shopping area very well.

EE often add additional capacity to shopping areas, in my town they have both Band 3(1800) and Band 7 (2600) frequencies in the shopping centre. Looking at the street view pictures of that last site, I'm sure there are multiple connections into each antenna panel.

It is a guess, but Cellmapper shows this as the only band 3 and band 7 site in the area, so I think you've found it!

Edited by jchamier (Fri 26-May-23 22:47:13)

With that single equipment cabinet, and an Orange logo, its most likely a switched off old Orange 2G mast that EE is no longer using. Do you get a signal from it?

I thought I was receiving a signal from it, but obviously I wasn't. I think I was getting a cell from Audley House. As I walked up the side of the valley (on the street) towards the 2G mast the signal increased. Seems a logical explanation.

Could be easily shared, but they'd use different eNB and cell site numbers for each network. That last site on the block of flats looks to be covering the high street / shopping area very well.

EE often add additional capacity to shopping areas, in my town they have both Band 3(1800) and Band 7 (2600) frequencies in the shopping centre. Looking at the street view pictures of that last site, I'm sure there are multiple connections into each antenna panel.

It is a guess, but Cellmapper shows this as the only band 3 and band 7 site in the area, so I think you've found it!

I'll see if I can get closer later but probably won't be able to see anything due to the antennas being on top the building.

Thanks for moving the cells. Our property now shows it has coverage from two towers, each with two cells. Previously it was just 1 cell from 1 tower.

I suppose the use of Cellmapper north of the railway line hasn't occurred, because there doesn't seem to be any coverage (Bridgewater School area)

Do you know of a good site which would explain how to look for the best signal, possibly using the info from cellmapper, such as bandwidth, band and RSRP. Is one band better than another? (I don't have a choice - all band 3); I assume more bandwidth is better; and a low (closer to zero) RSRP would be beneficial. I don't want to bother you any more.

I'll pick up some PAYG SIMS for use at my parents. I'll find the green O2/Voda cell that was discovered in 2019 but isn't on streetviews that are dated later.

Thanks again.

In reply to a post by BarkingMad:

Do you know of a good site which would explain how to look for the best signal, possibly using the info from cellmapper, such as bandwidth, band and RSRP. Is one band better than another? (I don't have a choice - all band 3); I assume more bandwidth is better; and a low (closer to zero) RSRP would be beneficial. I don't want to bother you any more.

Happy to help, another place with people whom can answer that sort of question is the Mobile Phones forum on Digital Spy. There are some quite technical people lurking on that forum.

Most modern handsets (phones) have the ability to aggregate, back to the iPhone 6s and Android equivalent. The mast will move you around between bands based on signal strength but also quality. RSRP (received signal received power) is only one measurement, there is also RSRQ, and the same backwards (can the mast hear your phone strongly enough).