Advice re outdoor antenna

As I live in an area with virtually no mobile coverage, even outdoors, about 7 years ago, I installed an outdoor yagi aerial which I use with a Huawei mifi dongle. I really only use it when my broadband is down, for whatever reason. Usually a power cut.

During a recent power cut, I found that connecting the aerial to the dongle didn't increase signal strength whereas it used to work. I'm wondering if this could be due to the 3g switch off?

I can't find the details of the aerial to see bands what it was designed for but it's a yagi with maybe 10 elements. As far as I remember, I bought it for 3g. Is it likely to be sufficiently discriminating to not pick up the 4g signal?

In reply to a post by filbert42:

Is it likely to be sufficiently discriminating to not pick up the 4g signal?

Antenna are tuned for frequency ranges. 3G on EE, Three, Vodafone and O2 was for a long time on 2100 MHz known as "band 1" and also O2 and Vodafone used 900 MHz (Band 8).

It is highly possible that which network and mast you are pointing at does not have 4G on the 2100 frequency, so your tuned antenna is not adding to your reception. If you look at Cellmapper you can locate your area and choose your network and locate what you think is your local mast. This may help.

Or you can post your approximate location, and others can see if they can find masts and frequencies on the four separate operators in your area.

Or even that the operator isn't on that tower at all anymore.

The tower I was pointing at appears to no longer have O2 LTE on it. At some point I need to repoint my backup LTE Mikrotik router.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

Or even that the operator isn't on that tower at all anymore. The tower I was pointing at appears to no longer have O2 LTE on it. At some point I need to repoint my backup LTE Mikrotik router.

That is unusual, masts in the UK are either operator owned, or neutral (e.g. Cellnex, formerly Arqiva). It might be yours was an O2 only mast and they've moved slightly to a Cornerstone (O2 & Vodafone joint venture) nearby that might be adding 5G.

As the Three & Vodafone merger has been approved, a lot more of this sort of move is expected as Three & EE divorce, and O2 & Vodafone's co-existance is upset.

After a lot of digging, I tracked down the mast I'm pointing at and confirmed it via a second hand Netgear Nighthawk M1 that I picked up on eBay. That showed that there's nothing on 2100 on the mast. The Nighthawk was picking it up on band 20 (800MHz) but when I plugged the aerial in, it switched to band 3 (1800) but the signal wasn't any better, which matched the behaviour of the Hauwei Dongle. Clearly, a new aerial is indicated but the Nighthawk gets 2 bars which might be enough for very occasional failover use in power cuts.

The only problem with replacing the aerial is cost and the fact that I'd have to drill a new hole in the wall as the existing route in is now buried in a wall.

The only problem with replacing the aerial is cost and the fact that I'd have to drill a new hole in the wall as the existing route in is now buried in a wall

Of course, I might be lucky and someone will start using the 2100 frequency for 4g...

In reply to a post by filbert42:

Of course, I might be lucky and someone will start using the 2100 frequency for 4g...

Many do, but you'll find EE and others are using for 5G. Some are using for Dynamic Spectrum Sharing (DSS) between 4G and 5G.

Quick summary:

* Band 20 is 800 MHz and has range, but with EE and Three only 5MHz of capacity so not much deployed as it saturates. O2 and Vodafone had 10 MHz each and so used this as their base layer.

* Band 1 is 2100 MHz and was used for 3G on many networks until 2024 shutdown. Vodafone and O2 also used 900 MHz.

* Band 3 is 1800 MHz and the base 4G layer for EE and Three, with both using other frequencies for capacity.

* Band 7 is 2600 MHz and higher band for EE and Vodafone.

More useful is this page:
https://mastdatabase.co.uk/gb/spectrum/

Thanks, a useful summary. It seems that bands 1,3 and 20 are available on the mast I'm using on EE (I'm on 1p Mobile but I also have a Three SIM that I could swap in). I'm very rural and the mast is 3.5km away, according to Google, behind some hills. So far, I've only seen bands 20 and 1 used by the Nighthawk router, I'll have another play when I get the chance.

In reply to a post by filbert42:

Thanks, a useful summary. It seems that bands 1,3 and 20 are available on the mast I'm using on EE (I'm on 1p Mobile but I also have a Three SIM that I could swap in). I'm very rural and the mast is 3.5km away, according to Google, behind some hills. So far, I've only seen bands 20 and 1 used by the Nighthawk router, I'll have another play when I get the chance.

4G LTE works by the mast and the device talking and cooperating, and the mast has to be able to hear you, as well as you hear the mast. Both the signal strength and signal quality are shared between both. Some devices show you these stats. The best tool for looking at signals is a rooted qualcomm modem Android phone with the free version of Network Signal Guru but that is a bit detailed technical.

You might find asking on the Digital Spy mobile forum to have some posters that know a bit more.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 21-Feb-25 12:29:21)

Thanks of that. I had no idea that it was a two way conversation but it makes sense, when I think about it.

I don't think I need to go to the trouble of getting a special phone, it won't change anything. Anyway, below is the signal diagnostic information from my Nighthawk. My research indicates that the RSRP is borderline "Fair" and RSRQ is just about "Good". Connecting the external aerial doesn't change the values much but the LTE band changes to B3. I'll probably do nothing for now. Next time I need the aerial guy to come out, I'll look at getting a 4G antenna fitted. It's only for backup when the fibre internet is down (usually due to a power cut). I'll have to do some tests to see if the cell signal is good enough to make a voice call with wifi calling.

NETWORK
Network Selection Mode Auto
Country GBR
Roaming  Off
RSRP -117 dBm
RSRQ -11 dBm
RS-SINR 2 dBm
Current Radio Band LTE B20
Quality 27 dBm
PS Service Type LTE
MCC 234
MNC 30
LAC 25170
RAC 0
Cell ID 4369420
Channel Number 6225
MNC Format 2
PLMN Service Error Bit Mask. 0