Right I've tried everything under the sun the router connects with the 2 bt test logins but then they drop and i get the error that the timeout has reached, i try reconnecting and i get the same message, I've came to the conclusion that it must be something virgin side as i can find no other reason why i have 3 routers and can't connect with any of them, yet the USB Speed touch connects fine! Anyway my MAC code is with ADSL24 now so hopefully I'll have some joy with them, thanks to all who gave me advice it was much appreciated.

Steve