Gigabit Install questions

Hi.
I want to move away from my homeplugs and am after some advice on how to cable up my house for Gigabit.

I have my modem and router in the living room and want to install outlets in 4 other rooms. Some of the cabling will have to run outside the house to get to where I need to go and I probably need around 60m with a maximum of 15 meter runs.

I assume I just need to terminate each room and router connection at a network switch, was thinking in the loft?

Also not sure about what hardware I need and the difference between stranded and solid cable?

Was thinking of the CCS 1 way standard face plates on this page for each room

and the 100m external cable on this page

Some Cat 6 plugs from this page to terminate into the switch.

I guess a crimping tool to attach the plugs as well as a punch down tool?

Do I need to consider the shielded FTP cable. Would this be of any benefit in my installation?

Any recommendations for suppliers?

Thanks
Gary

I run Gigabit across Cat5e cabling without any problems (apart from a broken wire in one cable!)

For the external you need the right cable type or it can breakdown rapidly: FS Cables is my preferred supplier and in some cases they will sell shorter lengths than a full drum. Their normal Cat5e and Cat6 prices are competitive too.

Terminate all of the cables on a 24 port patch panel next to where you want the switch - do not try to crimp connectors onto the cables - it will fail and a decent crimp tool is not cheap. Then use flexible patch leads from the patch panel to switch and from socket outlets to devices.

Where you think you want one outlet, run two cables - you will always fine you do not have enough and if you want two, think about running four.

You could also put two sockets next to the modem, then move the router to the loft adjacent to the switch. Patch lead from modem to socket, then patch panel to WAN input of router, the another from a LAN output to the switch ...

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Some of the cabling will have to run outside the house to get to where I need to go and I probably need around 60m with a maximum of 15 meter runs.

f you run cable outside the house then you'll need to protect the cable from the elements or else use a cable suitable for outdoor use.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

I assume I just need to terminate each room and router connection at a network switch, was thinking in the loft?

You can terminate at a patch panel or an RJ45 connector, for more than a few connections, a patch panel is probably best.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Also not sure about what hardware I need and the difference between stranded and solid cable?

You need solid cable, stranded is used only for patch leads, solid core transmits better with less losses over distance.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Was thinking of the CCS 1 way standard face plates on this page for each room

and the 100m external cable on this page

Some Cat 6 plugs from this page to terminate into the switch.

I guess a crimping tool to attach the plugs as well as a punch down tool?

Do I need to consider the shielded FTP cable. Would this be of any benefit in my installation?

Any recommendations for suppliers?

Thanks
Gary

I've used CommsExpress who are good value and prompt.

Also see these posts: Terminating Cat5 at patch panel and faceplates, Terminating Cat5e cable, , Choosing network infrastructure hardware, Home networking advice and Home network pics

You don't really need cat6 sheilded cable unless you plan on running your cat5 cable close to electrical wiring and in paralell.

Edited by joconnell (Wed 15-Jun-11 11:00:35)

Thanks for that.
Guess I would be looking at the C5EC or C5ED on that page with the C5ED being more resilient? Lots of options!

Is there no benefit to installing CAT6 then? Haven't looked at the price difference.

I assume the connection to the patch panel would be with punch down connections?

Good advice about the extra cables as well. May mean a more expensive or two switches in the loft (More ports) but I could remove a couple of switches I have running in other rooms.

Thanks for the info.
Feel guilty about not using the search button now
I'll get reading.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Thanks for that.
Guess I would be looking at the C5EC or C5ED on that page with the C5ED being more resilient? Lots of options!

Is there no benefit to installing CAT6 then? Haven't looked at the price difference.

I assume the connection to the patch panel would be with punch down connections?

Good advice about the extra cables as well. May mean a more expensive or two switches in the loft (More ports) but I could remove a couple of switches I have running in other rooms.

The C5EC will be adequate, unless you want physical protection.

Cat6 is useful for noisy environments - but it is hard to bend due to the internal spacer. I have 15 to 20 Cat5e cable bunched together, running for 10 metres, crossing power and in ducts with alarm and phone cables - no issues.

Patch panel will be punch down ... and a reasonable tool will cost around £10-15

You are right about the switches - but I have a 24 port Linksys (Cisco) which serves me, but I do need to add a second! There are three 24 way patch panels too. It is so much cleaner to run 2 or 4 wires to a face plate - the site you linked to has 4 way ones too, rather than a local switch. With those faceplates, the modules are standard sized and if you have a specific range of sockets and switches at home, you can normally get faceplates to match and insert teh standard modules.

In reply to a post by MHC:

You are right about the switches - but I have a 24 port Linksys (Cisco) which serves me, but I do need to add a second!

Not your standard run of the mill home network then

Thanks for the advice. I'm starting to reappraise how I should approach things. More cable runs sounding better and better although my budget would have to rise considerably.

Think I would need a 16 port switch. They seem to vary between £50 and £150 plus. Any recommendations? I had a lot of trouble with a netgear GS605. Poor throughput and negotiating down to fast ethernet which has put me off that brand!

Think I will price things up before I make my mind up.

Well, we do have 2 offices here too!

The cables costs very little - you can install a faceplate with a single outlet and 2 half size blanking plates until you need the second. 305m for all of the internal will, I would think be more than adequate, it will just be the external that you need to buy extra.

There are a couple of other long threads covering much of this - with plenty of suggestions and comments.

A patch panel will be cheaper than a crimp tool for RJ45s - my Crimp tool was over £160.

I like my Linksys SRW2024 - but that is a managed switch and even some overkill here but it works and has a lifetime warranty.

Linksys are now Cisco Small Business and there is a good range: http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/factfinder/searc...

There is the SG100-16 or SR102-24 - think how many you need now, if it is close to 16 then 24 maybe the solution. Think what you might want to add, TV, DVD, PVR, alarm, camera, &c You can cascade later on, but have some spare at the start.

Their support is also very good - if you need it.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Thanks for the info.
Feel guilty about not using the search button now
I'll get reading.

I did the same thing when I first started speccing my home network and guys like MHC posted links to various posts in this forum. There are links in those posts I linked to which specify the parts used in my home gigabit network. I sourced all my stuff from Comms Express who were pretty cheap and supply Excel brand stuff which is good quality. I must say I found Cable Monkey to be quite expensive, but their stuff may well be much better quality and easier to work with.

Are you installing the network yourself? If so, I'd recommend you practice terminating with a spare bit of cable at the patch panel and RJ45 module ends - I did that and it made a big difference when it came to me doing the real terminations at the wall sockets and patch panel.

Finally, I found this site on cabling a great source of info and advice.

Good luck and feel free to ask any further questions, no matter how seemingly trivial.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

Think I would need a 16 port switch. They seem to vary between £50 and £150 plus. Any recommendations? I had a lot of trouble with a netgear GS605. Poor throughput and negotiating down to fast ethernet which has put me off that brand!

I have a 24 port patch panel but only 14 connections in use, with a 5 port switch, a GS605 in fact. I don't use all the network points in the house so the 5 port switch is adequate for my needs, but as I start to use more and more network points, then I'll invest in a 16 port switch, though I'm not sure whether to go for a managed switch (overkill?) or just a simple switch.

The suggestion to put some RJ45 sockets near your telephone point is a good one - I did that and now feed the WAN signal to the patch panel from where it's patched to the router and from the router into the switch which is mounted near the patch panel.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Terminate all of the cables on a 24 port patch panel next to where you want the switch - do not try to crimp connectors onto the cables - it will fail and a decent crimp tool is not cheap. Then use flexible patch leads from the patch panel to switch and from socket outlets to devices

A patch panel does provide much more flexibility and means that your solid core cable stays put rather than it's ends being moved about (shortening the life of the connection) when plugged into the switch and/or router.

Appreciate the pointers.
Good point about the switch. I would currently need 9 connections if I move the router out of the overly hot cupboard it is in with the modem at the moment. It's an atom based PC so have been wanting to move it to a cooler location.

I could use the Cisco 5 port I have at the moment with an extra 8 port.
The Misco prices that MHC linked to seem very good. The 8 port is around a third of the 16 port switch so a big saving there.

I guess I will lose a port from each switch having to patch them together but should still be enough for now.

Don't know if the 16 port switches are more robust in any way but 2 of the 8 port switches would still be £50 less!


Funny about the GS605. Maybe mine was faulty or didn't play well with my MB lan. It seemed OK with the NAS connection.
The Cisco has been rock solid so far.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Linksys are now Cisco Small Business and there is a good range: http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/factfinder/searc...

There is the SG100-16 or SR102-24 - think how many you need now, if it is close to 16 then 24 maybe the solution. Think what you might want to add, TV, DVD, PVR, alarm, camera, &c You can cascade later on, but have some spare at the start.

Their support is also very good - if you need it.

This Zyxel switch looks good.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

This Zyxel switch looks good.

Have not used their switches, but their original ISDN interfaces were very good.

I agree about the practice - even I do a few dummy runs when I have not done any for a while.

Also gmoorc, can I suggest you buy a reasonable quality set of wire cutters - they will be extremely useful in getting wire to just a bit longer than needed prior to termination - I have seen people using a pair of 10" pliers and a bit of a mess. And do not untwist the pairs more than you need, you should get away with less than 12mm.

In reply to a post by MHC:

And do not untwist the pairs more than you need, you should get away with less than 12mm.

My patch panel punch-down terminals are about 30mm long which necessitates cutting back the cable's insulation by that much, so I have 4 twisted pairs of exposed wires, untwisted as little as possible before termination. Is that okay? Does it matter how much of the twisted pairs are exposed or is it just a question of how much of each pair is untwisted?

In reply to a post by MHC:

305m for all of the internal will, I would think be more than adequate, it will just be the external that you need to buy extra.

If I do multiple runs to each point I'm going to need a fair bit of external cable, probably over 100m.
Any reason I shouldn't buy 305m of external cable to use throughout? Price obviously but will it be harder to work with?

Think I will need around 230m overall.

In reply to a post by joconnell:

In reply to a post by MHC:

And do not untwist the pairs more than you need, you should get away with less than 12mm.

My patch panel punch-down terminals are about 30mm long which necessitates cutting back the cable's insulation by that much, so I have 4 twisted pairs of exposed wires, untwisted as little as possible before termination. Is that okay? Does it matter how much of the twisted pairs are exposed or is it just a question of how much of each pair is untwisted?

Just the amount untwisted

In reply to a post by MHC:

Also gmoorc, can I suggest you buy a reasonable quality set of wire cutters - they will be extremely useful in getting wire to just a bit longer than needed prior to termination

Axminster tools do a great range of cheap, quality wire cutters - I bought a set (might've been this or this) which included the blue cutter in the linkie along with some small pliers and a wire stripper (for electrical jobs). One thing I do recommend from my own experience is to NOT use the built-in wire cutter that comes with many IDC punchdown tools, just punch-down the cable and clip the excess with separate wire cutters.

For stripping the cable sheath, I used a wee device called a Cyclops (I think) which cost me less than a fiver and works very well.

http://www.fscables.com/Data/Structured+Wiring/Cat-5...

C5EB - internal and is 5.5mm diameter and 36kg/km with a PVC outer.

C5EC - Weatherproof and 5.6mm diameter and 40kg/km with Polythylene outer

It will be very slightly harder to work with, but not much - slightly stiffer possibly. No reason why it cannot be used indoors - but check the costs - give different suppliers a call and get the best prices

The trimmers on decent IDCs are fine - my two are 20 years old and still going strong. They were, in those days, around £20-25 each although the company provided mine!

In reply to a post by MHC:

The trimmers on decent IDCs are fine - my two are 20 years old and still going strong. They were, in those days, around £20-25 each although the company provided mine!

I cautioned the use of the built-in trimmers because if you have the punchdown tool the wrong way around, you can punch down and end up cutting your connection, then you gotta start again

OK. Still got a couple of rooms to terminate in but the panel is done and switch installed.
Once I have the rooms finished I'll move the router up into the cabinet.
Got one PC connected which is reporting 1Gbps connection so looking good so far!

Had a bit of a scare with the first test with my tester. I've run 12 cables so far and put red tape on each end with numbers so I could keep track.
Tester showed no lights at all. Seems I managed to end up with two number 5 cables

Thanks to you both for the tips and advice.

Link to pic

Looking good ... you can also get bolt in shelves for 19" racks - use one to stand the router on, inside the cabinet.

Very smart and tidy

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but you can patch your router's RJ11 WAN cable over the cat5 cabling.

What switch is that?

In reply to a post by joconnell:

Very smart and tidy

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but you can patch your router's RJ11 WAN cable over the cat5 cabling.

What switch is that?

Running the WAN over cat5e was mentioned before when I suggested putting two cables to each.

The switch looks like Cisco Small Business SG 100-16 - unmanaged and possibly the old Linksys repackaged and rebadged,

Yep. Got it from here after looking at MHC's earlier link.

I went with it over the Zyxel that was mentioned as I could see that it came with mounting/extension brackets for the rack.

Re the router I am taking the advice given
I ran 4 cables down to the modem so will link the cat5 modem output into one of the ports, through the patch panel and to the router WAN port, then router LAN back to switch.
I've run at least 2 cables to each room.

Thanks

Got all the gear (apart from switch) from Kenable by the way.
Very impressed with their service and delivery updates.
Got a 1 hour delivery slot mail on the morning of delivery.

Hi,
I am going through the same process as the current forum discussion with a house renovation. Have run CAT6 through the house and am currently installing the patch panels, Zyxel switches and have just bought a Linksys E4200 router. My question is around the modem, I have been running a 3COM 11g modem / router until now, but I am unsure whether this would need to be upgraded as I don't want it to become the bottleneck in the system. If using the 3COM then I would need to disable the wireless router part of it but suspect it would be better to get a dedicated modem?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks Adam

If the broadband you receive is slower than what the modem can handle then can continue to use that.

The utility of gigabit in the home comes when you start streaming video between machines on your own network.

To avoid the modem being a bottleneck, just take one port from it to connect to a Gigabit switch.

Wireless - best bet is to situate a G/N wireless access point in the room where you will be using wireless, to give the best possible speeds.

With the kit you have now - you have two routers, which may complicate things for people who are encountering networks for the first time, hence why I suggest to add faster wireless buy a wireless access point.

If you use the 3com as the router into a giga switch I don't know whether it's presumably lower routing performance would affect transfer speeds?

However if you want to make use of your new kits routing features (Nice looking router!) you need to turn the 3com into a true modem as you say. Then you just need to plug that into the yellow internet port on your new router.
I'm using a netgear dg834v4 in it's hidden 'modem' mode plugged into the WAN port of my router which uses PPPoe to authenticate with my ISP.

Don't know if you can do that with the 3com though? I've had problems in the past with modem routers that say they have a modem mode but still do NAT etc.

If you use the 3com as the router into a giga switch I don't know whether it's presumably lower routing performance would affect transfer speeds?

The switch will only send traffic to the 3Com if it needs to, so PC A to PC B over ethernet will go via switch alone.

Modem modes can be a pain sometimes, particularly if on a PPPoA based connection, as they tend to only fully debug these modes for PPPoE mode.

Thanks all, configured the router up as suggested, 3Com can have the wireless router function turned off. Broadband speed test results about the same for the wireless so guess that suggests this is a function of the ISP connection speed rather than the router, most of the speed will be internal routing anyhow so that should make full use of the Gigabit transfer rates.