Cannot network Windows 7 and XP

I have searched the web for a solution and even Microsoft haven't given a straightforward answer. I am using Windows 7 (Desktop PC) and trying to persuade it to network with Windows XP (Desktop PC). Why on earth Microsoft did away with the simple home-networking process in XP I'll never understand. Every time I attempt to connect to my wife's XP machine I get a message stating that it is not accessible ... the account is not authorised to log in from this station. I have setup both PC's with a common Workgroup name and disabled the password on each PC but to no avail. Strangely however, I can access the Public folder on the Windows 7 PC from the XP machine.
Is there an easy way to overcome this or am I trying the impossible?

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Jul-11 08:49:11)

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-7/share-files...

Thanks for your suggestion. I have tried this one but it didn't help. The follow up to my request for more help received no response but I did note that the original post was dated 2009 which may account for the fact that no-one has come back to me on this one.

It is definitely possible, I am doing it on my home network.

I have not read the link above exhaustively, but it looks a pretty good set of instructions.

Assuming that all the networking options are correct on both machines, which I think is the case if you can see the shared folders.

On the XP machine if you select a folder and right click on it, then choose sharing. In the dialog box that pops up there are two boxes to tick.

1. Share this folder on the network
2. Allow network users to change my files.

Click on OK and that folder should be visible from the W7 machine.
(On My network I am unlikely to have anyone connected who is a security risk so this blunt version works rather well.)

I have XP, Vista, W7 and Ubuntu with Samba, all sharing folders or complete drives happily.

I too had this problem which also applies when networking XP & Vista.
Xp cannot see W7 or Vista unless W7 or Vista is password protected. If you set a password for your W7 machine the XP machine can access the W7 Machine by using the password. You can automate the log in on the W7 machine to avoid using the password each time

Have you installed LLTD (Link-Layer Topology Discovery) on XP, as I had to do for Vista?

Hi XRaySpeX,

Yes I have installed LLTD on XP and confrimed this through the Wireless Network Connection properties.

I have the 'My Documents' folder icon displaying a hand beneath it in XP. To me that indicates that it is a shared folder, yet I cannot access it from my Windows 7 PC. My Windows 7 PC can see the XP machine but I am refused access to it, therefore denying access to shared folders.

To use the password or not to use it, that is the question. In other places I have read that password protection should be disabled.

looks like you didn't make it yet.Your problem is permissions, there are NTFS and security permissions and
both need setting correctly.The way to do it is to create a group, I just use the "everybody" group because its there. Share a folder with the win7 pc first and set the advanced share options, you then need to go to
the security tab and do the same (say so if you can't get the folder added to the group) Then (in XP) try typing
SHRPUBW into the start/run box and following it through, use custom permission settings, it should auto
add the shared folder to the everyone group ( if not, add an everyone group).Passwords are not needed.
I hope this helps, I don't think I explain well. It all works fine here so it will work fine there eventually.

In reply to a post by WatchMan:

To use the password or not to use it, that is the question. In other places I have read that password protection should be disabled.

This only applies to the public folder sharing (option in network + sharing center) - badly described on MS' part admittedly.

In reply to a post by WatchMan:

I have the 'My Documents' folder icon displaying a hand beneath it in XP. To me that indicates that it is a shared folder, yet I cannot access it from my Windows 7 PC. My Windows 7 PC can see the XP machine but I am refused access to it, therefore denying access to shared folders.

Create identical user accounts (that is, the names are the same when lookiing at C:\Documents and Settings\<name>, and C:\Users\<name>), and identical passwords. Try again, should work.

Ensure file encryption is set to lower setting (not 128bit)

There are numerous ways to do it but this might be simple for you short term.

Or, shove everything into the public folder.

Ensure network profile on Win7 is home.

Hi Black,
I'm not sure I'm with you on this ... where in Windows 7 is the option to create a new group? And when you say you use the "everybody" group because it's there ... where? The same questions apply if you meant to perform this in Windows XP.

OK, I follow you as far as XP is concerned ... put everything I need to share on my Windows 7 PC into the Public folder and it can be accessed from Windows XP. However, obversely this doesn't work because when I want to access folders on my XP PC from Windows 7 I am denied access. Am I dumb or something ... no, don't answer that!
Incidentally, not quite the answer but I have found that by using TeamViewer I can interact with any PC in my home. At least it's a start and I can copy files into the 'calling' PC's folder.

Make sure you haven't created a HOME GROUP on the w7 PC.. If you have them dis-able it... Then to share folders, when selecting sharing.. Use ADVANCE OPTIONS...
If you can't see the XP folders on W7..
Then check the permissions options on the folder is question and if possible select EVERYONE option...
That should solve it

To add to the "everyone" group in win7 right click the folder/drive you want to share and click properties / sharing tab / advanced sharing / tick the box "share this folder / permissions / add / advanced (near the bottom) / find now / scroll down and double click "everyone" / ok / select desired permissions here if you want (full , change ,read / ok / ok /
Important is that you then repeat the above steps in the security tab going through "edit" then "add.
that should get it working if you follow exactly.

Edited by Black (Tue 05-Jul-11 22:13:04)

Does the XP PC have a user with the same name as the user you are logged into on Win 7? I think it is something to do with that.

I am now having the same problem with Vista seeing XP; there is no problem with XP seeing Vista (after completing a login to Vista). The funny thing is Vista to XP worked when I 1st set it up (and did not even require a login to XP), but sometime later it stopped working.

On XP my user name is "Owner" (courtesy of HP) with visible alias of "MyName". On Vista both of these are the same "MyName". Once they gelled; now they don't.

Thanks to your help I have finally managed to see the files I need to access from Windows XP but I still cannot access the XP computer from Windows 7. The icon is in view but when I double click on this icon the 'Open Folder' message box returns this:- "\\NAME-2 is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator of this server to find out if you have access permissions. The account is not authorised to log in from this station."
All appropriate folders on my XP machine have been set to share with other home users.

Homegroup is disabled but this makes no difference. I still can't access files on my XP machine from Windows 7 even with the 'everyone' option selected.

Not sure why this option should make any difference. Surely if password protection is disabled it makes the other computers more accessible?

In reply to a post by WatchMan:

I still can't access files on my XP machine from Windows 7 even with the 'everyone' option selected.

I thought you said in your previous post "I have finally managed to see the files I need to access from Windows XP". What did did you change on XP to make it behave differently?

In Windows 7, I followed Black's advice

To add to the "everyone" group in win7 right click the folder/drive you want to share and click properties / sharing tab / advanced sharing / tick the box "share this folder / permissions / add / advanced (near the bottom) / find now / scroll down and double click "everyone" / ok / select desired permissions here if you want (full , change ,read / ok / ok /
Important is that you then repeat the above steps in the security tab going through "edit" then "add.
that should get it working if you follow exactly.

Or, shove everything into the public folder.

I can access the Public folder from XP, no problem. I still can't access XP shared folders from Windows 7 even though it can be seen on the network.

Is it XP home edition ? I have been testing with XP pro which of course has full use
of NTFS permissions. It is suggested XP home users just use the installed public folders for sharing.

I had similar problems initially when trying to network three pcs-

Acer Netbook with XP
Acer Laptop with W7
HP Tower with Vista

It took me some time to achieve and to be honest, I don't really remember how I achieved it.

However, one thing I did on each PC was to load a Photo of itself, also suitably named, so that as the network came in to operation, I could be sure that I was accessing another PC on the Netwotk, by seeing the appropriately named filename and if opened, the picture of that PC.

Made life a lot easier.

OK can we start with the basics.

Can you ping XP from Win7 and vice versa?
Can you ping XP from Win7 using the computer name and vice versa?
Can you connect to the XP machine IP using UNC path "\\computerIP"
Can you connect to the XP machine using UNC path "\\computername"
Create TEST account on both machines with SAME password, try again.
Can you ensure File and Printer Sharing firewall exception is active on both machines? (Do you have 3rd party firewall?)
Can you confirm Server service is running on both computers (right click my computer > manage > services)
Can you confirm Network profile for Windows 7 is Private?
Create different test folders and check whether they share successfully.

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

Can you connect to the XP machine IP using UNC path "\\computerIP"
Can you connect to the XP machine using UNC path "\\computername"

Connect how? Using what software/feature?

lol
take it Pipexer...it gets complicated for sure.

About the xp home issue i mentioned...ignore it..I just installed a fresh copy and without
changing anything I shared "my documents" and all win7 and vista pc's on the network have access.

I suppose I am stumped, the given suggestions should have worked.

start working your way through Pipexers list.

I will bow out of this one...

Using windows explorer silly

Can you ping XP from Win7 and vice versa?

Not sure if this is the same as

Can you ping XP from Win7 using the computer name and vice versa?

, but 'Yes' to the second question.
.

Can you connect to the XP machine IP using UNC path "\\computerIP"
Can you connect to the XP machine using UNC path "\\computername"
Create TEST account on both machines with SAME password, try again.

As for the next three questions I don't have sufficient technical experience to know how to answer these.

I do know that I don't use a third party firewall. I also checked the Server service on both machines and this is running.

Can you confirm Network profile for Windows 7 is Private?

How do I find this out? As far as I can see I only have three options, Home, Work or Public ... I have set this to Home. I have not created a HomeGroup!

Create different test folders and check whether they share successfully.

I have found I can share folders from within XP regardless of whether they are placed in a public folder providing the security settings are for 'Everyone'. I cannot access shared XP files and folders from within Windows 7. At present the only way I can do this is by using TeamViewer but this is not my preferred option. Before I switched to Windows 7 I never had a problem with networking between Linux or XP!

There was something odd about the XP machine CMD window which may have some bearing on the problem. Instead of C:\Users\name in the command line it had the following: C:\Documents and Settings\name-YOUR-0B11AB5F50>
Incidentally, the XP machine is my wife's but it is unlikely she could have changed anything in that respect.

Your help is much appreciated!!

Edited by deleted (Wed 06-Jul-11 22:11:14)

Your basics get us no further than the original basic method of trying to connect (that's via Windows Explorer BTW ) to XP from Vista/Win7's Network.

1 & 2: Yes, pings both ways.

3 & 4: No, gives the same "Login failure: user has nor been granted requested login type at this (unclear which this is) computer" as does trying to connect directly from Network.

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

5: Create TEST account on both machines with SAME password, try again.

Aye, there's the rub! As I indicated earlier, seems impossible to network XP with Vista/Win7 when they have no user names in common. One has to artificially create unnecessary users.

6, 7 & 8: Yes

9: No point.

In windows 7 if you can see the shared folders on the XP machine, then try right clicking on them and selecting the option to map the a network drive. select a drive and OK.

If it fails repeat, but this time tick the box to "connect with different user credentials". This time when you click OK it will come up with a username and password box. Enter the details that are usually used on the XP machine.

edit

I have it all working here W7,XP,Vista and linux, though adding a new linux machine can be a nightmare as I do not really understand Samba security and have probably left the machines rather to open for public use.

Edited by philippercival (Thu 07-Jul-11 19:29:26)

one more
The only obvious way I could stop win7 accessing shared files on xp was to untick the file
and printer sharing in the exceptions of the firewall. This should have got ticked though when
running the home network wizard, which, even if not done manually, should have happened when
the first folder was shared. Worth checking just in case.

Thanks to everyone who have tried to help me on this issue. I still haven't achieved my goal which is to access files and folders on my wife's XP computer from my Windows 7 machine. I am now using Teamviewer (Free) which, although not ideal, at least makes it easier to communicate between computers.

If all else fails then another solution is to set up a dropbox account on both machines with the same Dropbox login details. This will in effect give you a 2GB shared folder with the advantage that it is backed up to and available from the net.

Another possible advantage of this is if you set it up through this (was a link) then I will get a little extra free space others are welcome to click it as well.

Edit link removed Sorry

Edited by philippercival (Fri 08-Jul-11 23:16:46)

and break the BBS rules most likely, referrals etc are not allowed.

I have tried this as you have advised but it doesn't work for me either!!

This non-techie had the same problem with XP machine linked to home hub by Ethernet and home hub acting as router to my new W7 which has USB to printer.
Spent almost two days trying to get XP to print never mind network with W7 machine. Eventually found Kaspersky was blocking my efforts. After setting up permissions in KIS the network worked, sort of. Bought another W7 machine last month, network self-connected in seconds.
Sorry if this states the obvious but it drove me scatty!

One thing that I have to do occasionally to maintain networking (WORKGROUP) between XP sp3 32bit and Win7 Home Premium 32bit is: on the XP machine to go to My Network Places > view workgroup computers (both can sometimes be slow to open) and open the Win7 machine - this usually gets communication between the machines working again or indeed during the initial networking set up also.

A change of router can also cause problems: often I forget to change the Kaspersky IS 2011 firewall settings to local network on the Win7 machine which is connected wirelessly.

This might help if all the steps for setting up networking between XP and Win7 mentioned in this thread are not getting a result.

Here's the latest on my dilemma. I am now testing 4 computers on the network and the results are as follows:-

1. Advent 8315 Laptop, Vista with SP2 can see and access files and printers on all computers on the network

2. HP dv9000 Laptop, Vista with SP 2 - ditto -

3. Asus EeeBox B202, XP Home with SP3 - ditto -

4. HP Pavilion Slimline s3240uk desktop, Windows 7 SP1 can see all computers, can access the Vista machines but cannot access the XP machine.

What frustrates me is the fact that I have tried all the suggestions put forward on this and other forums (including Microsoft) yet Windows 7 still refuses to communicate with the Windows XP machine. Could it be a bad Windows 7 install or is it that Windows 7 just hates XP ... why is it that the other three get on so well together?

Had it been that none of the computers could interact I would have suspected router settings or antivirus software (I don't use a third party firewall) but the problem seems related to Windows 7 only.

Edited by deleted (Wed 10-Aug-11 20:22:49)

In reply to a post by WatchMan:

is it that Windows 7 just hates XP ... why is it that the other three get on so well together?

Can't be that because I network XP and W7 computers without problem.

BatBoy,

One small problem that I have found with XP C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents (Shared Documents) is when adding files to that directory (network drive) from the Win7 machine those files can not be organised into sub-folders working from the XP machine, it can only be done from the Win7 machine. Yet files added to XP Shared Documents from the XP machine can be organised, renamed, deleted and copied with either machine - guess it was because the network drive was setup from the Win7 machine perhaps?

It could be a firewall issue.

If you use a wireless adaptor win7 firewall seems to assign it a higher level of protection than it needs.

Try turning off the firewall acorss the network and see if that works.

Anonymous,

Sorry I should have been more specific: actually it isn't a problem with ALL the files copied into the XP Shared Documents folder from the Win7 machine. XP denies access to a number of them possibly because it reads them as corrupt yet they can be accessed from the Win7 machine, over the network, without any problems. Also those same files, e.g. mp4 videos, can be opened and played by XP and also uploaded to web sites, e.g. YouTube, from the XP Shared Documents folder even though XP can not access them - i.e. organised them into sub-folders, rename, delete etc.

There does seem to be a minor intermittent issue with files created on the Win7 machine copied into the XP Shared Documents folder, via the network, which stops XP from accessing them - maybe XP hates some of the Win7 files yet YouTube loves them LOL!

If this is playback of files in Windows Media Player, then it is likely that the codecs (needed to decode video) are not available on the XP Machine.

XP Windows Media Player is now older and does slightly less stuff than a Windows 7 one.

Thus as files they are ok, but in terms of decoding to play back locally under XP they wont work.

MrSaffron,

They are .mp4 files (H.264 - MainConcept AVC 1280x720 25p) exported from the Sony Vegas 10 editing program on the Win7 machine. ALL can be opened and played on the XP machine with QuickTime from the XP Shared Documents folder - the problem is one of accessing a number of those files (not all) in the Shared Documents folder to organise them into sub-folders, rename, delete, etc.

Decoding with QuickTime on the XP machine doesn't seem to be the problem, it's more one of the XP OS possibly reading a number of the files as corrupt and denying access.

I will have to check, but I think the files that can not be accessed by XP (even though they can be opened and played by XP) from the XP Shared Documents folder were copied across the network from the Win7 C:/ drive rather than from the Win7 E:/ drive - which I normally use for saving videos exported from Vegas - neither of which, incidentally, are shared/pubic drives.

Have you looked at the Security tab for the files, and seen which users have access rights to the files?

XP > Shared Documents Properties > Sharing > Network sharing and security > "Share this folder on the network" is checked and "Allow network users to change my files" is checked.

Will fire up the Win7 machine and take a look at the properties of the C:\ drive > User Documents, in particular, later...

Thanks MrSaffron.

OK, so opened the network drive (XP Shared Documents) from the Win7 machine. From one of the offending video files I selected File properties > Security and �Everyone� ( i.e. WORKGROUP) could open the file. Then went to Change Permissions > Edit > Permissions > �Modify� �Allow� which was unchecked so I checked it, �Write� �Allow� which was also unchecked so I checked that also, BUT Win7 said �unable to save permission changes to the file - Access denied.�

Don�t really want to mess with it any more because the network is working 99% - that�s unless there is a simple solution�

In reply to a post by 4M2:

the problem is one of accessing a number of those files (not all) in the Shared Documents folder to organise them into sub-folders, rename, delete, etc.

Then it's a permissions issue. You need to look at the permissions on XP directly, not from Win7.

PS: Why do you call XP Shared Documents a "network drive"? Do you just mean this folder is shared across the network?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 12-Aug-11 00:45:44)

XRaySpex,

Yes I did look at the permissions on XP directly - please see my reply to MrSaffron above. The problem lies in the fact that a number of the .mp4 video files were copied from the Win7 machine over the network to the XP Shared Documents folder, those video files can be opened and played on the XP machine with QuickTime but they can not be accessed in the sense of organising them into sub-folders, renaming, deleting, etc. by the XP OS. However they can be opened/played and fully accessed over the network working in the XP Shared Documents folder by the Win7 machine. Guess Win7 thinks they are it's files and doesn't like XP messing with some of them LOL!

Win7 WORKGROUP "sees" the XP C:\ drive as a network drive and it's only the Shared Documents directory (Documents Z: ) that it is allowed to open.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Yes I did look at the permissions on XP directly - please see my reply to MrSaffron above.

where you said

OK, so opened the network drive (XP Shared Documents) from the Win7 machine. ...

I'm advising you to do this from the XP PC.

XRaySpex,

It was this reply to Mr. Saffron above, above: " XP > Shared Documents Properties > Sharing > Network sharing and security > "Share this folder on the network" is checked and "Allow network users to change my files" is checked." When I did it directly from the XP machine.

Sorry to confuse you

Duh! I'm talking about permissions, not sharing.

You have problems accessing XP files from the XP PC itself. That's not a network sharing issue.

I refer you to your 2nd reply to Mr. Saffron where you talk about looking at XP permissions viewed from the Win7 PC. I keep trying to tell you to do this locally on the XP PC alone.

XRaySpex,

Right I'm with you now

As I said the offending mp4 video files were created on the Win7 machine and copied across the network into the XP Shared Documents folder. However many of those mp4 files are probably not a problem for XP because they were exported/saved to the Win7 E:\ storage drive from the Sony Vegas editor rather than to the Win7 C:\ OS drive before they were copied across.

Please explain how to look for permissions locally on the XP machine to resolve this issue.

Got another problem at the moment though: Kaspersky KIS 2011 has suddenly seen one of my video codecs, CineForm VFW, as a trojan. The hassle is with a executable file called renderVFX.exe\\Armadillo which Kaspersky believes to be a Trojan-Dropper - I've been on to CineForm about it and they say it is a false positive that has been a Kaspersky problem for years...

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 12-Aug-11 04:34:15)

Checking locally probably means to sit at the xp machine, log into it, and then check the permissions.

Where the files were created and which drive they came from is irrelevant!

These files now reside on XP and you are unable to manipulate them fully under your particular XP User. That User obviously has Read permission to them because you can open and play them with XP apps and copy them elsewhere. But it appears not to have Write permissions because you can't move, rename or delete them.

Obviously I mean sit at the XP, log into it and look at the permissions under the Security tab of the files' Properties.

But do you have XP Home? Cuz then the Security tab is not normally available. However I have 2 solutions to this:

1. Permanent & Preferred: There is a M/S download for Win2000, I think, that installs the Security tab in XP Home. You'll have to search for it. It's a long time since I got it and I forget. It is well worth doing if you can find it.
   
   EDIT: Here, I found it: ftp://ftp.dataforce.net/pub/support/WinNT4/Secure/sc...
   
   
2. Temporary & Deprecated: Boot into Safe Mode and the Security tab is present.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 12-Aug-11 11:36:39)

Should be playing around with the permissions on the computer where the files are PHYSICALLY located, i.e. the XP machine

XRaySpeX,

I'm now sitting comfortably next to and logged in to the XP machine (after having battled with Kaspersky and the CineForm VFW codec problem for hours, now thankfully solved) LOL!

Yes I am indeed running XP Home sp3 32bit and you are absolutely correct about me not having Write permissions for the offending mp4 files in the XP Shared Documents folder. It appears that XP does not read them as corrupt because this does not work:


1. Click Start > Run and type regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll and click OK.

2. Click Start > Run and type regsvr32 /u shmedia.dll and click OK.

3. Delete the file that is corrupted.

4. Click Start > Run and type regsvr32 shimgvw.dll and click OK.

5. Click Start > Run and type regsvr32 shmedia.dll and click OK.

which I have to use occasionally to remove corrupt video files when playing about with codecs etc.

It is definitely a Write problem, as you so precisely analysed, and I will try your solutions 1 & 2 and get back to you later...

Really appreciate your advice,

4M2.

Good! Tho' I didn't understand that stuff about regsvr32.

Me too a little, copying a file around the harddrive has nothing to do with support for video codec's, it is just a file.
The codec's only come into play once into some form of media player.

XRaySpex,

Booting into safe mode did the trick: had to check "Full Control" from Security. Those settings seem to have stuck after booting normally and I can now do what I like with those mp4 files in the XP Shared Documents folder whilst physically operating the XP machine.

regsvr32 is a technique for deleting any corrupted file when other methods fail with XP.

Will I have to download ftp://ftp.dataforce.net/pub/support/WinNT4/Secure/sc...
or do you think those settings done whilst in safe mode will last indefinitely, guess only time will tell?

Cheers,

4M2.

MrSaffron,

"...codec's only come into play once into some form of media player."

Sorry not quite true: if one uses, for example, a AviSynth script with the VirtualDub app and one tries to export unknowingly using a codec that is not licensed for a particular function then a corrupt file can result, e.g. working on 1920x1080 video file that needs resizing larger than that size for stabilization, cropping and resizing back to 1920x1080 a small file will be created with the correct extension but may be corrupt and can not be deleted by normal means. Its not always a decoding issue with media players.

I knew what regsvr32 is but didn't understand your reasons for using it; still I'll pass on that codec stuff.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Will I have to download ftp://ftp.dataforce.net/pub/support/WinNT4/Secure/sc...
or do you think those settings done whilst in safe mode will last indefinitely, guess only time will tell?

Those particular settings will stick, but you could have the same issues on other files transferred across the network in future, unless you can find out the root cause of why some such files end up with Full Control and some with Read Only. So I'd highly recommend installing that download to save having to boot into Safe Mode when this happens as well as giving you greater control of your own files in general.

XRaySpeX,

Thanks a million - now my networking between Win7 and XP has gone from 99% to 99.9% effective. As you say finding out why some files end up with full control and others don't should make it 100% effective.

I'll hold back on the download for a while until I'm sure that my Kaspersky false positive trojan issues with the codec are fully stable for a few days.

Many thanks for your excellent advice and patience,

4M2.

YVW!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

As you say finding out why some files end up with full control and others don't should make it 100% effective.

Idea: Did you login as different Win7 users to transfer files to XP? You talk about transferring from diff. Win7 drives. Do some these users share their names with XP users and some not?

XRaySpex,

Same user log-ins on both computers and all drives - only one user/adminstrator using the machines.

Will have to do a thorough check, but I feel that it is the files copied from the Win7 OS drive rather than those copied from the Win7 E:\ storage drive that didn't have full control by XP.

BTW. much prefer XP for general computing although Win7 32bit is great for editing videos with Sony Vegas

XRaySpeX,

Just done a quick test and I copied a 6 months old video file (contemporary with some of the ones that were troublesome) across the network from the Win7 OS drive to XP Shared Documents folder and it is under full control by XP (that file had not been previously copied via the network nor by any other means between machines) - the whole thing seems to be a mystery...definitely seems like the XP safe boot etc did the trick

Logging in on Win7, You could compare the Permissions of the original source of files, 1 that ended up as Full Control on XP and 1 that gave issues on XP by resulting as Read Only, and see if that gives you any clue; without doing any network transfers.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 12-Aug-11 21:40:33)

XRaySpeX,

Permissions are the same on both original source files when viewed on the Win7 machine, i.e. Properties > Security > Permissions for System: Full control, Modify, Read & execute, Read, Write, are all allowed and Special permissions is neither Allow nor Deny. Advanced Security Settings > Permission entries are also the same with both files.

Don't you just love all the settings available for each file with Win7!!!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Permissions for System:

It;s not System's permissions that matter here but those of individual Users and Groups of Users. Look for diffs in these particularly those that are common with XP's Users.

XP has just as many settings available for each file; they are a property of NTFS called Access Control Lists (ACL). They are just hidden in XP Home until you take 1 of my solutions. There is also a CLI for doing the same called CACLS.

XRaySpeX,

Both files have Group or user names with 8 entries and the list is the same in both, however, interestingly, 4 of those items in each list are "?Account Unknown..." with only Read & execute and Read allowed.

Mp4 files on the Win7 E:\ storage drive have only 4 listed entries without the 4 "?Account Unknown..." items which are included in the lists pertaining to the mp4 files on the Win7 OS drive.

Perhaps that is relevant to the problem?

In a Command Window, CD to the folder containing the 2 files in turn, then issue the command:

CACLS "filename"

and post results.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 13-Aug-11 05:18:49)

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6138/6036607867_0b19a... - didn't seem to work for individual files but this is the Win7 C:\....\Videos folder.

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 13-Aug-11 02:36:53)

It does work for individual files but if the name contains spaces you need to quote it in "s.

Make sure all other PCs are networked online at the time in case that is the Domain being looked for.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 13-Aug-11 05:36:53)

XRaySpeX

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6141/6038333008_28379... this command worked on the file that I copied across the network yesterday but it did not work on the offending file that I was having problems before.

Not sure what is going on with this procedure?

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 13-Aug-11 21:08:55)

No, that didn't work. You need to put the quotes round the whole of the file's pathname, as in:

CACLS "C:\Users\you\Videos\Redwing 13-01-10"

That's why I told you to CD 1st before doing CACLS, to avoid such problems.

Do this for both a file that was troublesome on XP and one that was not.

Never understood this post: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/multiuser/t/4031495... at all

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Both files have Group or user names with 8 entries

Which "both files"? From what you said earlier I thought you need to compare a file on Win7 C:\ that gave trouble on XP with one on Win7 E:\ that didn't give the trouble?

Yet here you go on to say that "both files" have the same 8 entries, yet files on E: have only 4 entries.

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6038710647_cce45... - was the problem.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6183/6038710493_d18be... - is good.

Note I had to use ICACLS and add the file extensions for it to work - both are H.264 encoded videos.

"Which "both files"? From what you said earlier I thought you need to compare a file on Win7 C:\ that gave trouble on XP with one on Win7 E:\ that didn't give the trouble?

Yet here you go on to say that "both files" have the same 8 entries, yet files on E: have only 4 entries."

This was to compare the permissions of video files on the Win7 C:\ and E:\ drives: i.e. files on the C:\ drive have 8 listed entries and files on the E:\ drive have only 4 listed entries, hope that is clear now

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6142/6039637465_62415... - used CACLS for both files but had to add the file extensions again and of course " " for "C:\...\Redwing 13-01-10.m2ts"

As in the previous test all networked PC's were online.

In all these things, you always have to specify the full filename incl. extension; it's just that you have "chosen" to hide usual extensions in Explorer only for display purposes. You can see the extensions by doing "DIR" in the Command window.

I thought that it was files on Win7 E:\ that don't cause trouble on XP. What does one of their CACLS look like?

I'd wish you'd do the "CD folder" before doing the "CACLS simple-file-name-without-the path"; it's much clearer to see the output on the left of display, e.g.

CD \Users\you\Videos
CACLS "Redwing 13-01-10.m2ts"

Are you still having Read Only permissions issues on XP with files transferred from Win7 C:\? In testing this you should 1st delete any previous XP copy in case your previous massaging of permissions on XP affects it.

XRaySpeX,

I really appreciate your help with this

I always hide file extensions in case I rename a few files and forget to add or leave them in place because later I may not remember what the hell a file is - especially true with the myriad of video file extensions...

I discovered that I needed extensions when I did this: ICACLS C:\Users\me\Videos\* and all the file names came up with extensions.

Will do the tests that you requested later, and I WILL "CD folder" first.

Off out to do some filming now, speak to you later,

4M2.

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6089/6042658727_68156... - I used both cacls and ICACLS for a video on the Win7 E:\ drive.

Also deleted the previously troublesome "clearcloud.mp4" file from the XP Shared Documents folder and copied it again across the network from the Win7 C:\...\Videos folder to the XP Shared Documents folder using the Win7 machine - which is my normal procedure. Now no problems working with that file using XP

Having a few problems with cd and cacls commands but that obviously didn't matter with the Win7 E:\ drive.

Looks like the the problem has gone away ... for now as I can't see that you have changed anything that would affect new files transferred from Win7 C:\ to XP.

The permissions of that file on Win7 E:\ looks perfectly normal.

I suspect the issue stems from the presence of those permissions for "WMPNetwokSvc" (which I've never seen before but I don't have Win7) amd the "Accounts not found". What happens if you just manually create an arbitrary text file (using Notepad) in C:\Users\you\Videos? What ACLs does it end up with?

How differently were the files on C:\ and E:\ originally created?

PS: No need to use ICACLS; I am more familiar with CACLS and they both do the same thing.
I forgot to say before doing a CD on E: you need to switch drive by just issuing "E:" alone, as you did.

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6080/6044123966_ba680... - new text file, as you can see I'm still having problems getting the cd and cacls commands to produce an easily readable display in Win7 Command Prompt

Regarding those "Accounts not found" I haven't mentioned this before, in order not to complicate the issue, but when I first connected up the Win7 machine to the LAN a couple of years ago I used the WORKGROUP setup. And much to my dismay I was able to read the entire Win7 C:\ drive from the XP machine, so I used this fix: http://scottiestech.info/2009/09/25/windows-7-file-s... It is perhaps possible that procedure has something to do with "Accounts not found"?

The video files on the Win7 C:\ and E:\ drives were all created by the Sony Vegas editor and exported using the H.264 AVC codec with only minor changes to parameters.

Looks like those funny ACLs happen to any file in that folder. They must be inherited down the line. Wonder what the ACLs are of the Videos folder itself and so on up the line until C:\.

That article looks perfectly reasonable. I doubt it would have caused those funny ACLs but it does say that file sharing was changed in Win7, so I guess it is Win7 itself that has produced them. As I said above, I wonder how far up they exist.

Other than that, I think we have gone as far as we can go on this. If XP permissions issues occur again you will just have to massage them as before. Or you can try deleting the funny ACLs on a test file in Win7 C:\ before transferring to XP.

PS: Forget what I said about having to do a CD 1st; it does not really help.
You know you can Mark & Copy from the Command Window by right-clicking on it?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Booting into safe mode did the trick: had to check "Full Control" from Security.

To which file or folder did you do this? And for which user/group?

If you did it to a folder it will explain why you no longer have problems with new files transferred to that folder.

XRaySpeX,

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6078/6045780044_f45d6... - XP Command Prompt showing the current status of one of the previously troublesome files, that I deleted and copied across again, and also of the Shared Documents folder.

Yes in XP safe mode I checked "Full Control" for the Shared Documents folder, i.e. C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents.

Will have a play around with the funny ACLs on a test file in Win7 C:\ etc. etc. later...

Thanks for the tip regarding Mark &Copy from the Command Prompt window should make things easier by pasting the text into Notepad

Virtual Dub app counts as some form of media player, i.e. it is actually decoding the frames help with in the file.

MrSaffron,

Apologies, you are indeed correct that VirtualDub decodes a supported codec when a file is opened for processing or playback, and it that sense it is certainly a media player.

Problems can occur however for some supported codecs when they are not licensed for a particular process using certain filters/plugins and then the display windows will fail and the processing will also fail. That, as you suggest, is a processing\encoding issue rather than a decoding issue....

4M2.

I meant what are the ACLs of the C:\Users\you\Videos and above folders on Win7?

XRaySpeX,

Yes, as I said I'll check out the ACLs of the C:\Users\you\Videos and above folders on Win7 etc. etc. later - got some editing of the videos I shot yesterday to do on that machine this evening.

Just thought the current status of XP Shared Documents folder and mp4 file might be relevant to the setting I made during the XP safe boot

OK. Sorry, I confused which post you were replying to.

Interesting: On my XP <-> Vista setup the ACLs of a Vista Shared non-Public Folder includes an entry for "MyVistaPC\MyVistaUserName". However when I CACLS this Vista Folder from XP, that entry appears as "<Account Domain not found>", which makes sense as my XP will have no awareness of Vista's user names. All the rest of the Vista's folder's ACL entries are recognised from XP as they are all generic, like "NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK".

So it looks as if your Win7 shared folder could have ACL entries for "foreign" users.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 15-Aug-11 22:31:40)

XRaySpeX,

You may find this interesting from my Win7 machine:

C:\Users\me>cacls C:\Users\me\Videos
C:\Users\me\Videos NT SERVICE\WMPNetworkSvc:(special access: )
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES

NT SERVICE\WMPNetworkSvc:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTE

<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)R
<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)R
<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)R
<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)R
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)(ID)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)(ID)F
My-PC\me:(OI)(CI)(ID)F


C:\Users\me>cacls C:\Users\me
C:\Users\me NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F
MY-PC\me:(OI)(CI)F
<Account Domain not found>R
<Account Domain not found>R
<Account Domain not found>R
<Account Domain not found>R
<Account Domain not found>R


C:\Users\me>cacls C:\Users
C:\Users NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Users:R
BUILTIN\Users:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
GENERIC_READ
GENERIC_EXECUTE

Everyone:R
Everyone:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
GENERIC_READ
GENERIC_EXECUTE

I will look into all the other stuff later when I've finished editing my video...

Edit: had to put a few spaces in to stop emoticons!

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 15-Aug-11 21:24:22)

So, ACL for "NT SERVICE\WMPNetworkSvc" appears 1st at level C:\Users\me\Videos.

And ACLs for "<Account Domain not found>" appears 1st at level C:\Users\me.

Which folder is the one shared? I presume C:\Users\me\Videos?

XRaySpeX,

No folders are shared on my Win7 machine - however I do have these public folders which are part of the Library: C:\Users\Public\Documents, C:\Users\Public\Music, C:\Users\Public\Pictures, C:\Users\Public\Videos. Those folders and contained files are accessible from the XP machine (folders are read only.) No other Win7 drives, folders nor files can be seen nor opened from the XP machine.

To transfer files across the network I copy to the network drive known as Documents (\\XP Computer's name) (Z: ) on the Win7 machine. This is in effect the XP Shared Documents folder to which the Win7 machine has full control. Win7 can not see nor access any other drives, folders nor files on the XP machine.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 16-Aug-11 02:08:47)

XRaySpex,

This might interest you from the Win7 machine (not all the text copied to notepad but I think you may be able to follow it) :

C:\Users\me>cacls C:\Users
C:\Users NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Users:R
BUILTIN\Users:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
GENERIC_READ
GENERIC_EXECUTE

Everyone:R
Everyone:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
GENERIC_READ
GENERIC_EXECUTE



C:\Users\me> cacls C:\Users\Public
C:\Users\Public BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F
CREATOR OWNER:(OI)(CI)(IO)F
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
NT AUTHORITY\INTERACTIVE:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special ac
DELETE
READ_CONTRO
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERI
FILE_GENERI
FILE_GENERI
FILE_READ_D
FILE_WRITE_
FILE_APPEND
FILE_READ_E
FILE_WRITE_
FILE_EXECUT
FILE_DELETE
FILE_READ_A
FILE_WRITE_

NT AUTHORITY\INTERACTIVE:(special access: )
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_WRITE_DATA
FILE_APPEND_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES

NT AUTHORITY\SERVICE:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access
DELETE
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_RE
FILE_GENERIC_WR
FILE_GENERIC_EX
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_WRITE_DATA
FILE_APPEND_DAT
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_WRITE_EA
FILE_EXECUTE
FILE_DELETE_CHI
FILE_READ_ATTRI
FILE_WRITE_ATTR

NT AUTHORITY\SERVICE:(special access: )
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_WRITE_DATA
FILE_APPEND_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES

NT AUTHORITY\BATCH:(OI)(CI)(IO)(special access: )
DELETE
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_GENERIC_WRIT
FILE_GENERIC_EXEC
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_WRITE_DATA
FILE_APPEND_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_WRITE_EA
FILE_EXECUTE
FILE_DELETE_CHILD
FILE_READ_ATTRIBU
FILE_WRITE_ATTRIB

NT AUTHORITY\BATCH:(special access: )
READ_CONTROL
SYNCHRONIZE
FILE_GENERIC_READ
FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_DATA
FILE_WRITE_DATA
FILE_APPEND_DATA
FILE_READ_EA
FILE_EXECUTE
FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES

Everyone:(OI)(CI)F


C:\Users\me>cacls C:\Users\me
C:\Users\me NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F
user-PC\user:(OI)(CI)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)F


C:\Users\me> cacls C:\Users\me\Videos
C:\Users\me\Videos NT SERVICE\WMPNetworkSvc:(OI)(CI)(special a
READ_CONTR
SYNCHRONIZ
FILE_GENER
FILE_READ_
FILE_READ_
FILE_READ_

NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)(ID)F
My-PC\me:(OI)(CI)(ID)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(OI)(CI)(ID)F


C:\Users\me> cacls C:\Users\me\Videos\clearcloud.mp4
C:\Users\me\Videos\clearcloud.mp4 NT SERVICE\WMPNetworkSvc:(ID
: )



AD



BUTES

NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(ID)F
My-PC\me:(ID)F
BUILTIN\Administrators:(ID)F

BTW The directory C:\Users\Public is shared but the Public folders are not.

Also, as you can see, I cleaned out those "Account Domain not found " entries from C:\ User\me, C:\User\me\Videos and C:\User\me\Videos\clearcloud.mp4.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Several posts on other forums had recommended I try disabling Media Streaming on my Windows 7 PC which I had tried but without success. I have just made another attempt and discovered that I should have disabled the devices on 'All Networks' as well as 'Local Networks'. Since I did this and rebooted my PC I can now access all computers on my network. What baffles me though is that by way of experiment I re-enabled 'Media Streaming' and I still have access to all the computers on the network. This indicates to me that it is high time Microsoft brought out a fix for 'Media Streaming' that would save us all a lot of time. As usual, Microsoft takes your money then leaves you to sort out the bugs.

My thanks to everyone who subscribed to this post ... I hope in some way it has helped those who have experienced the same problem I've been trying to solve for more than two months.

Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Aug-11 16:12:54)