Two Buildings Wireless conection ?

I have a friend who had an old farmhouse, with a cottage in his yard which he rents out on a holiday basis.

He has broadband and wireless internet in his house though I suspect not all through the house because of thick walls.

The cottage is about 40-50m from the house and the signal peters out half way across the yard between them. I have no idea as to whether or not they are on the same electricity phase.

He would like to be able to provide internet access to his guests, without spending vast amounts of money.

There are a couple of other houses in the near vicinity.

Any suggestions for the best way of approaching this.

Edited by philippercival (Thu 29-Dec-11 13:41:21)

Would they be able to run a trench with a bit of hosepipe in it to be able to put in a CAT5 cable? Only problem is if they aren't both grounded to the same place it may cause electrical issues (not up on electrics but it can cause some sort of imabalance).

If they were on the same electricitry metre then you could use homeplug but sounds like this may not be the case.

Also, could use wireless links using a point to point wireless connection. But, have only done those on a business basis and they were quite expensive and for long distance. Using 2 standard wireless base stations with directional antennas may well be all you need.

Forget wireless - too expensive and will not be too effective.

Can he get high enough on both houses to run a single wire across? If so, use an external Cat5e or Cat6 cable with an internal strain wire. Fix to eaves brackets at both ends and terminate in a suitable RJ45 socket inside each building. Connect the house end to his router and fit a small/cheap managed switch at the other end.


I have just done similar (but underground in ducting) for a friend - 70m to the end of his garden.

Alternatively, use SWA Cat5e/Cat6 and burying it in the ground - being armoured means you don't need to install in ducting.

http://www.fscables.com/Data/Structured+Wiring/Exter...

List SWA and external - don't know if the standard has a strain wire though - picture suggests it does but there is no mention.

MHC, does this introduce the ground potential issues I mentioned if they are not on the same electrical phase? Quick google gives this - although I seem to remember reading something that suggested it was a non-issue?

Edited by ian72 (Thu 29-Dec-11 15:27:12)

The lightning issue is possible - but then how many people have had phones fed from a high drop wire and the phone line then connected to a PC via a 56k modem. How many were killed by lightning strikes?

Ethernet is a balanced pair Sig+ and Sig- go through a twisted pair and thus no reference to earth. Think about large buildings - network fed from central computer room to devices powered from differing phases supplied from multiple distribution boards with their own earths throughout the building ...

My understanding was that in large buildings the electricals went back to a common earth allowing copper connections between them. Where they are campus style buidlings then fibre tends to be used.

I honestly don't know if it is an issue and have seen conflicting arguments but I wouldn't want to advise something that wasn't a good solution.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Unfortunately they have vanished for a week, so I can not ask for any further details. When I spoke he said that his electricity was old and strange. He did not think homeplugs would work.

The yard is Farmyard depth concrete, but overhead might well be possible. A cable would have been my answer but I was worried about creating a dangerous situation if there were different phases and a fault somewhere else.

The Farm is definitely fed by an overhead phone line. I don't actually know what his router/modem arrangement is, but as they have wireless already in the house, I would guess it is fairly standard.

If lightning was the sole concern there are specific Cat5 surge arrestors available (same concept as the GPO used to use).

Is there a particular reason no one has suggested standard Cat5E at each end, with media converters to/from fibre to get across the yard and eliminate the safety and signal integrity issues of the long Cat5 cable? It won't be as cheap as bodging it though.

Anybody know any trustworthy Part P certified sparkys with a decent knowledge of datacoms? Or datacoms folks who are Part P certified?

"Ethernet is a balanced pair Sig+ and Sig- go through a twisted pair and thus no reference to earth."

Lots of things have balanced differential inputs, lots of them don't work right when the wanted input signal is (occasionally?) swamped by a DC or 50Hz signal resulting from less than ideal grounding arrangements.

"differing phases ... their own earths throughout the building ..."

The Cat5 cable runs must be (relatively) short. The power cables and in particular the ground arrangements must be pretty much equipotential by design. E.g. have a look at the required earth arrangements where serious lift motors are involved. If there are network signal quality problems occasionally in a building environment, TCP hides many of them, and the IT department can usually be blamed for the rest.

If its fed from an overhead supply its highly unlikely to be three phase so the power, unless the farm house has two meterswill be on the same supply after the meter the power plugs should work but I do not know thier maximum cale lenth.

Wireless will work perfectly well over 40-50m, provided you have windows approximately facing each other. Just place the router / wireless transmitter on the window sill of the farmhouse, the signal would be available within line of sight trough the oposing window. You may need to use USB WiFi dongle which can again be placed on the window sill with up to 5m of cable to the computer.

I have been using just such a setup for 4 years.
Regards,
Martin

I agree 50m is easy for wireless when you have line of sight,
though using a external antenna is often better. ( I found good old lead glass masks wifi quite well)

Yes an external directional antenna would work fine at this range.

The OP could use something such as a NanoStation M2 Loco just one on the outside of the main building if the guest building walls are not too thick or if the signal can be seen from a guest window.

Or could use a pair one on each building to form a link. In that case, one could use the M5 version (5GHz) for less interference.

Whatever the method to link the buildings, the OP may want to consider the choice of router / firewall in the main building if the guest access needs to have its own LAN distinct from the owners, but that is a separate question.

These guys
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?...
do a 150Mbps up to 4km line of site wireless for £125. This is probably the cheapest solution

If both buildings are on different phases this could well be an issue

How about two of these units

http://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-outdoor-bridging-e...

Have a look at the video.

Hi all,

I have done a very good article on my site about establishing multi-building home networks like your setup with the farmhouse and the cottage. It is on my site at http://homenetworking01.info/2008/11/feature-article... and have looked at the use of a dedicated-wire run, a wireless run or a HomePlug powerline setup. I have written it also to encompass the use of those charming old caravans that some people like to buy as a way of creating extra living space, with my preference fo HomePlug as a preferred link for those vans.

With regards,

Simon Mackay

Most of the possible options are listed above. Here's my take on each (caution, contains opinions)

As-is wireless - Fiddly to keep reliable over that distance without dedicated kit. Driving a tractor and trailer across the yard would probably cause the link to drop.

Wirelsss w. external antennae - Feasible, would require specific kit at each end and some configuration. A day's work plus the equipment costs, probably. Still some risk of interruption, but much less with careful siting.

Homeplug - Really, really simple if it works. No "sunk" costs, you can remove and re-site the kit easily.

CAT5 - risk of physical damage, not the cheapest solution, and some risk from different earth potentials between buildings, and lightning strike. Can be mitigated with surge protection, but this is becoming expensive. Definitely worth it if there is a need for Proper Bandwidth betwen the buildings, rather than enough to drive email and web browsing.

Fibre - the safest, highest-bandwidth option. You can buy a ready-made cable and a couple of converters, but again, it's not a particularly cheap option.


For that distance, I would try Homeplugs first. My own garage is connected to the house's main board with a longer cable than that. Works perfectly and has done for years. Buy a pair of the 200mbps ones from Argos and try it. (£50 for tp-link, £75 for Netgear)

If you rummage through some of my old posts you'll find numbers for distance and bandwidth acheived with 85Mbps plugs. More than good enough for general internet and email access, it's the ADSL that's the likely bottleneck.


edit - The reason I sugegsted Argos instead of somewhere cheaper was the low-hassle returns policy.

Edited by deleted (Mon 30-Jan-12 20:14:06)

Thank you for all the replies and information. I will get back to him with the suggestion of trying Argos as if the homplugs do not work, he can always return them.

I wouldn't usually recommend Argos you understand

If they want wireless in the "shed" these may be worth a look, one plug also contains a wireless access point,

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/558...