Old GPO socket, unused line

Hi,

I'm looking to rationalise the internal wiring in a flat that hasn't been significantly updated since the 60s. The line runs in to an old gpo 'lozenge'. Miles further down a maze of internal and external wiring there is a more recognisably modern socket, and a void where it appears there was a second socket.

I know that in modern terms the line belongs to BT up until the master socket, in this case I'm guessing that what comes out of the old gpo box is mine and everythin before that belongs to BT? This would mean that I can mount a more modern socket above it, and run a wire from one to the other?

Ideally I would like to modernise the wiring and ditch the 50 year old plastic retro-chic, leaving me with a single master in the same place that the lozenge shaped thingy is atm. The line is not currently in use (no line rental being payed), and I'd rather it stayed that way for now. Is there a way to do this that doesn't involve handing BT a week's rent for 30 seconds work?

TIA.

Theoretically (and legally) you can't rearrange it yourself.

Practically Openreach NTE5 boxes (master sockets) are available for purchase
e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BT-telephone-socket-NTE5-a...

it's only a matter of popping the lid off the lozenge and removing it, then connecting two wires to the A and B connections at the very back of the new socket and screwing it to the wall. Or mount the new socket close to the lozenge and cut the internal facing cable from it down to the right length to connect to the new socket.

As long as you don't do something stupid such as connect the incoming cable to mains power then there's very little to go wrong.

Up to you

Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Aug-12 19:01:02)

In reply to a post by git:

Ideally I would like to modernise the wiring and ditch the 50 year old plastic retro-chic, leaving me with a single master in the same place that the lozenge shaped thingy is atm.

Think I would certainly be inclined to leave the GPO lozenge thingy in place, fitting a NTE5 adjacent to it may or may not be permissible even though the line is not in use. If in the future the line is used and there is found to be a problem with the unauthorized NTE5 installation then there could be serious consequences

I had this sort of problem. My line is with Sky. They recommended getting a local company to tidy up the wiring which they did from the 'lozenge thingy'. They fitted a new NTE5 socket. I am not sure of the legality of all this but I kept copies of the Sky email and the contractors invoice. The whole job was done professionally and my BB speed has increased from 3.5 to 6.2!

The cost was under £60 while I believe Openreach would have cost £100 to £180.

In reply to a post by git:

...This would mean that I can mount a more modern socket above it, and run a wire from one to the other?

Why keep the lozenge? It will not enhance an ADSL signal.
Replace the lozenge with a NTE5 + filtered faceplate combination. e.g. this (shop around - you may find a less expensive/more appropriate combination)
Choose an appropriate NTE5 (screw or IDC) for the incoming pair inside your premises.

N.B. Filters containing active components are more prone to failure. Choose wisely!

Thanks.

Surely if the NTE5 is my side of the lozenge I'm within my rights? I'm guessing the only realistic consequence is having to pay BT £130 to fit their little plastic box to my wall?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Why keep the lozenge? It will not enhance an ADSL

First off I want to check that the lozengeis the boundary between my wire and theres, and secondly its a consideration because it is quick, easy, and legal...

In reply to a post by GeeTee:

As long as you don't do something stupid such as connect the incoming cable to mains power then there's very little to go wrong.

Up to you

I'm going to be so carefully avoiding such an absurd action that thats exactly what I'll end up doing now....

I basically redid all of my internal wiring. I got BT to put a new box in when the new line was installed. Then I rewired the whole lot as it was hideous.

Ripped out every extension and moved the master where I wanted it. Used all official BT standard cables and if a BT guy came around (which he has) he would not have any idea that it wasn't genuine BT work.

When I had fibre installed he looked at my wiring, smiled and job done within around 15 mins. No questions or issues raised with my work.

If anything BT did a worse job when sorting the line out. They left the new master hanging mid air & taped the line together outside. Was a total mess. Also found out they left star wiring in at a later date.

Do everything by the book and to the letter & you'll be fine. Plus you can always say 'it came like this.'
There's not too many wires. It's a matter of same colour to same terminal etc.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 15-Aug-12 20:56:06)

In reply to a post by git:

Miles further down a maze of internal and external wiring there is a more recognisably modern socket...

Is that a NTE5?

NO ... the "lozenge" is not the boundary but the first socket is. It may not be an NTE5 but an older style master but that is the boundary.

Frustrating - yes but the rules are there for a very good reason.

Having suffered a 400v (rectified AC) shock whilst working with technician on a telephony switch (exchange) trying to understand some strange issues, I can assure you it is not much fun when someone gets it wrong!

I don't want to kill anyone, but I do have tens of meters of cabling running over walls, around doors, in and out of the property etc. which makes the place look untidy. I would be a lot more sympathetic (to the company, obviously taking 400v. was n0t a good thing) if there were a way of having the problem rectified which bore some resemblance to the cost incurred to the company in doing so.

There were 2 sockets wired on seperate spurs, one of which has already been taken out. I'm not quite sure how this works regarding master sockets because the 2 sockets are not connected.

If the line hasnt been in use for some time, you dont want to use it and you have purchased the property reasonably recently why not just rip out everything from the old "lozenge" onwards and if you should want to use the line in the future simply claim "it was like that when I moved in".

If the line is completely dead (no dial tone) and has not been used for a while a new NTE5 would be fitted as part of a new provide and hopefully the new provider would meet the charge.

It's more recent than the original wiring, but not uber recent since the property has been unoccupied for around a decade. I'll have a closer look next time I'm there.

Can you just tidy up all the surplus wiring and leave the GPO lozenge, master and their connecting cable in place?

If the master is a NTE5 then there should just be two wires connected to A & B on the back plate feed from the GPO lozenge. Unwanted extensions may just be feed from the back of the NTE5 faceplate...

Right had a chance to have another look...


The line is dead, there is no ringtone.

Hmmm... I'm not sure if it is a NTE5, but it is a BT branded white box, from which the bottom half screws off to reveal 2 banks of 3 pins, and molded in to it the words 'uk regd des no 1036885'.

It appears that the spur that has had its socket removed and the spur with a socket are completely independant. The wires to the existing socket appear to run from the lozenge, through a wall, down the hall, going up and over every door enroute, in to the back room, around the top of the skirting, then hit the floor to run around a built in wardrobe before rising over the skirting to the modernish BT box on the far wall. The wires to the removed socket, appear to go out the front of the house, over the porch, and in to the front room via a hole in the window frame. I'm fairly sure they are not connected at all once the leave the lozenge....

I might just end up leaving it, but the most annoying bit is the cable running right the way down the hall, which just happens to be the cable between the lozenge and the socket.... In these days of DECT phones, theres not really a need for more than one socket in such a small flat, and the logical place to leave it would be where the lozenge is in the living room.

If someone were to break in and maliciously remove the lozenge, replacing it with the more modern BT box, in theory, I'm guessing the line would still work once reconnected?

Oh, and this isn't even the worst wiring in the house.... I've already had wires from a 5A circuit and wires from the lighting circuit that were running underneath the wallpaper removed...


Thanks for your continued help.

Thanks, one of the purposes of this thread is to infer the contents of the book. TAnother is to learn the silly little mistakes like leaving the socket unattached that will give any tinkering the air of true authenticity....

As the line is dead AND if you are getting a new line installed...

Best advice
Literally rip it all out. Every single thing. Even the lozenge.
This is assuming you haven't made an order for broadband already. You need to rip it out, then order broadband & phone as a new line.

Just cut the wire before it and rip everything out. Then when BT openreach come there is nothing old to use. They have no option but to put new equipment in. You can then tell them where you want the master etc.

When a new lines put in, if there's no old equipment you can specify where you want the master socket (within reason).

Sky would install a new line for £10 if you have LLU available on a 12 month contract. So it's really not a bad idea and gets rid of all of this mess.

BT do it for free on 18 month phone and broadband contracts.

If anyone asks, it came like it

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 23-Aug-12 03:33:16)

In reply to a post by git:

Hmmm... I'm not sure if it is a NTE5, but it is a BT branded white box, from which the bottom half screws off to reveal 2 banks of 3 pins, and molded in to it the words 'uk regd des no 1036885'.

UK Registered Design 1036885 is, I believe, a NTE5 Linebox and is the property of BT.

Would it's current location be potentially suitable for connecting a modem/router to it at some point in the future?