Question about extending home network

I have a question, but it needs some explanation before I ask it, so please read this intro first:

If I need a second wireless point in a house, I can use a Wireless Access Point or a second broadband router, configured to not provide DHCP. I've done this several times with success. But I have always had the wiring like this:

Main broadband router connected to phone line and connected to a Switch.
Cables from Switch to various other places.
Some of those places have PCs etc.
Some of those places have wireless routers, set appropriately.

Now for my question. In a simple setup without the need for an extensive network, does one need a switch? In other words will this work:

Main broadband router connected to phone line.
Cables from main router to various other places.
Some of those places have PCs etc.
Some of those places have wireless routers, set appropriately.

In other words can you connect router to router directly, or must one have a switch between?
Wouldn't this depend on whether the router can handle a reversed wiring on the cable?
Are they all clever enough to do that? e.g. BT routers?

Edited by Growltiger (Fri 25-Jan-13 18:25:10)

The switch at the simplest explaination level is just like an extension socket, i.e. letting you plug multiple devices into one socket on the original router.

So if what you are doing when adding this extra wireless routers works, it will also work directly plugged into the main routers switch

Judging by what you are asking, yes it should work.

Thanks. The reason I was worried was that I remember the days when people would sometimes connect two machines directly with an ethernet cable. This required a cable with some of the wires reversed, because ethernet cables are wired straight though, 1 to 1, 2 to 2 and so on. I even have a cable like that somewhere.

So connecting two routers together is equivalent, normally it is always router to PC.

So perhaps they are all clever enough nowadays to detect a reversed cable.

Edited by Growltiger (Fri 25-Jan-13 18:29:38)

Reversed cable is an old thing, almost every ethernet port on a device or switch supports MDI-X so auto detects if a switch over is needed, hence why consumer switches don't have an uplink port anymore.

Exactly what I needed to know. Presumably that includes the BT broadband routers.

I've remembered the name of that cable - a crossover cable.

You can still get 'em if needed, as cables or adaptors- Amazon link

Yeap includes them

Thanks everyone.

I know it is already answered but a quick additional comment.

The router if it includes more than one ethernet port actually is a switch. Essentially it has a built in switch that is no different in reality to an external switch. So, even without the separate switch you are actually just connecting 2 switches to each other, it just happens those switches have some additional bits in them to make them routers as well.

In reply to a post by ian72:

The router if it includes more than one ethernet port actually is a switch. Essentially it has a built in switch that is no different in reality to an external switch. So, even without the separate switch you are actually just connecting 2 switches to each other, it just happens those switches have some additional bits in them to make them routers as well.

Very true - though my point was that it is best to avoid unnecessary switch-switch links in the local network, as they act as a potential bandwidth restriction between local computers. So long as the Internet bandwidth available is not faster than a single port on the router switch can manage, having your router's switch connected to the local switch via a single port isn't a potential bandwidth restriction.

More expensive switches allow aggregation of multiple links, but no home or small business Internet connection is capable of saturating a single gigabit port at present.

In reply to a post by David_W:

So long as the Internet bandwidth available is not faster than a single port on the router switch can manage, having your router's switch connected to the local switch via a single port isn't a potential bandwidth restriction.

Isn't that a little misleading? (Assuming I've understood you correctly!)

There's no reason I can see that intra-net transfers may have a much higher speed requirement than any connection to the internet, thus these "internal" links may slow things down.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by David_W:

So long as the Internet bandwidth available is not faster than a single port on the router switch can manage, having your router's switch connected to the local switch via a single port isn't a potential bandwidth restriction.

Isn't that a little misleading? (Assuming I've understood you correctly!)

There's no reason I can see that intra-net transfers may have a much higher speed requirement than any connection to the internet, thus these "internal" links may slow things down.

If WAN traffic is incapable of saturating one port on the router switch, having a single router switch to main switch link is not a bandwidth restriction to this traffic. I am recommending (but did not say explicitly) that the remaining router switch ports are not used.

This leaves all the local clients on a single switch. Any decent modern switch can manage line speed on any combination of traffic.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I know it is already answered but a quick additional comment.

The router if it includes more than one ethernet port actually is a switch. Essentially it has a built in switch that is no different in reality to an external switch. So, even without the separate switch you are actually just connecting 2 switches to each other, it just happens those switches have some additional bits in them to make them routers as well.

I understood that multiple connections could be made via a switch or a hub, a switch being quicker as it knows what is at the end of each wire. Are all routers actually switches, or are some of them hubs? (assuming I am not barking up the wrong tree.

Of all those routers in retail stores in 2013 they will all have switches rather than the more old fashioned ethernet hub

Thank you

I have a couple of slightly older routers, and I think they will do nicely for adding capacity at the end of one of the runs in the house. I also have a couple of older hubs which I had been avoiding using, but for the traffic requirements, I don't think it would make a great deal of difference.