Ring wire removal query.

Hi, my mate is having trouble with his broadband speed. He has Sky Unlimited but is only getting 0.9 Mbps downspeed & 0.5 Mbps upspeed. I live about 20-30 metres across from his flat and my line prediction for speed with Sky is between 5-11.4 Mbps. So as is obvious his down speed is crud!! With my knowledge of this and that from reading on here for one, I wanted to try a few things. The first being putting his router on to his NTE5 master socket, instead of being on an extension in the living room. So for a good few days it's been on his master socket in his bedroom, laptop connected by a strong wifi signal...no change. So then I thought of the ring wire removal thingy. I've took a photo of his socket to ask/query exactly if I'm right to remove the Orange wire in connector 3 in a possibly vain attempt to improve things. I ask because the web pages I've read say 4 wires, only needs 2 & 5, ok, but his master socket has 6 wires...so is just removing the orange one in 3 the thing to do or not? Or should I do something different, or not bother at all???

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37267119@N03/8833175764/

I personally think the problem here is at Sky's end, BUT tomorrow I won't to go over and try the router in his test socket, see if router stats are improved, then I believe the ring wire removal will help...tell me differently if you disagree.
I didn't want to just take out orange wire from 3 and cock up phone & broadband.

Oh yes also if ring wire removal is the way to go is it just necessary at the master socket, or any others? He has 1 line jack unit wired off from the master through into the living room. Then weirdly from the front of the line jack is a cable to a block terminal which then runs some more cable to the opposite side of the living room, which is where his router was plugged into until I moved it onto the master socket.

So advice very much appreciated please.

Regards,
Dave

Edited by deleted (Sat 25-May-13 23:51:17)

Remove all except wires 2 and 5. Also make sure the micro filter is plugged into the master socket. If there are any extensions attached to the master socket, take them out. If they are absolutely necessary, attach a plug and place into the microfilter in the phone socket. FInally, plug the ADSL RJ11 cable into the ADSL part of the master socket. You should be good to go.

The stats from the router are also important. With Sky llu can be harder to see if there is room for improvement

As MrSaffron says router stats are important - if you can plug the router into the test socket, shown in the lower left of your photo, using a dangle micro filter that would possibly be the best plan initially. Leave the faceplate off for the moment and that should eliminate any issues from the extension wiring. You can connect a phone to the micro filter also if needed.

Is it possible for your mate to have the router near the master NTE5 rather than on an extension in the long term?

As well as all of the other suggestions, try with different microflters in the Master Socket.

quite a bit of older wiring has all 6 cores. The outer greens are redundant and have no effect.

Thanks haggismn,
It might not be clear from my pic, his master socket is an older one, it isn't phone socket + adsl socket, just a phone socket on the front. I get what your saying though. Your saying like 4M2, I can connect a phone on a dangle microfilter from the test socket to cut out any issues on the cabling in the flat.
So just leave wires 2 + 5? I had read that but was reluctant as he has 6 wires and says there are normally 4?? kitz page shows this.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/ringwire2.jpg

Are the extra 2 wires the extension line jack unit in the living room?

Thanks yarwell,

That answers the question I just asked. So definitely ok just leaving 2 + 5 wires connected?

Thanks MrSaffron,

I'll get some stats first, then get some when the router is on the test socket to compare.

Only 2 and 5 are required for broadband and speech. That's the twisted pair that goes to the exchange.

Many phones pick up the ring signal from 2 & 5

Some phones (even some new ones) rely on 3 for the ring signal.

Most microfilters regenerate the ring signal on 3 via a capacitor..

So if you only have 2 & 5 throughout the only downside might be the occasional phone that doesn't ring, which can usually be resolved by feeding it through a microfilter.

Thanks 4M2, Yes i'll definitely try the test socket, and sorry I wasn't clear in OP I have already put the router on his master NTE5 and yes it is going to stay on there now. So far there wasn't any improvement. But i'll try the test socket later today.

Thanks eckiedoo, I'll try that, I think he has an unused one and I have one knocking around.

yarwell, do I just need to do it on the master NTE5?

I encourage people to read, understand and apply. Take another look and have a think.

Not trying to be rude, but if you understand it you'll see there's no merit in having anything other than 2 & 5 connected. In which case you may as well remove them all.

It may not be necessary, but it is a wise precaution against additional master sockets or other defects being present.

In my experience in about 80% of cases removal from the master socket is sufficient, in the others it needed to be disconnected throughout, for whatever reason.

Sorry Phil, I did look back and see you had written "throughout". I just asked as if I didn't have to do it at more than just the master it would be much easier for me as, without getting out my violin, i'm a full-time wheelchair user and also only have one hand, so if it only needed doing at one location all the better for me.

So anyway I'll have to do it at his NTE5, a LJU in the living room and in a block terminal that is connected to that.

What is the best thing to do with the wires I pull out, electrical tape the ends and try to move/tuck them away from the IDC terminals?

Just lift out of the IDC jaws and tuck back out of the way.

No need for insulation tape

Ok, thanks Andrew.

I would be inclined to get the router stats from the test socket first, together with doing a quiet line test with a corded phone, then remove the unneeded wires from NTE5 faceplate terminals, replace the faceplate, ensure that all extension phone(s) are filtered and plug the router into the NTE5 faceplate (and a phone if you wish) via a dangle filter and check the stats and throughput speed again. If the router stats indicate a lesser broadband performance then you may have to disconnect the unneeded wires from all the sockets.

Good luck.

shouldn't need tape with IDC but I usually wrap them round my little finger and fold them out of the way. Only needs disconnecting at sockets (or bells / ringers / other weird wired-in things), JB's etc won't then be connected to anything.

Thanks 4M2 & yarwell, I'm going over now to try and implement all the good advice.

May the Force be with me!

Perhaps if you prioritize getting the router stats from the test socket and recording them before getting involved with the extension wiring from the faceplate that might be a good first step - if the line is underperforming is always a good thing to have some results from the test socket before contacting an ISP.

Hi 4M2,
Here are the stats router plugged into front of master socket, on filter with phone etc.as it had been for nearly 8 days.

Connection Speed Down 1020 kbps, Up 606 kbps
Line Attenuation 47.5db 29.5db
Noise Margin 1.9db 12.3db

Stats now plugged into test socket on a dangle filter, no phones just the router

Connection Speed Down 1020 kbps, Up 606 kbps
Line Attenuation 47.0db 29.3db
Noise Margin 4.9db 15.9db

After I connected it up like this I did a factory default restart as sync speed hadn't improved, this made no difference. So things are as the above.
Speed test results 0.88 Mbps downspeed, 0.51 Mbps upspeed

still v. poor then

so any phone sockets work when the master faceplate is off ?

should be 4 times the speed

Sky may have capped the line speed via their dlm system and spare noise margin is often not visible due to power back off techniques.

In which case its get the wiring as good as it can be and wait for things to improve and their dlm sometimes does this automatically or phone sky and ask for a reprofile

a noise margin of 5 ??

seems a bit aggressive for power saving

Sorry to hear that, I thought the slow speeds that you reported in your opening post might be due to more than a ring wire issue alone.

Can you try a different router, adsl lead and micro filter in the test socket sometime?

Phil, neither of the phone sockets worked with the master faceplate off, those being the master socket front and LJU in the living room.

I've had to come away now, so put it all back as was, router in master socket but not in the test socket, phone back in etc. Haven't done any wiring removals, try another day I think.

I think Andrew is right my mate needs to get on the phone to Sky for a reprofile.

I'm across the road and get 5.18 down and 0.38 up with EE Adsl Max, so my mate should be getting something similar for down speed, his up is better than mine though.

4M2 I did try a quiet line test before from a corded phone on a micro filter in the test socket, and it came back as excellent line quality, mos 4.5 So I don't think there is a fault on the line, bit of noise margin difference master socket & test socket, but I didn't get an improved sync speed in the test socket, which I thought it would have done.
I did try one other micro filter he had around the house, but had no connection, so must have been a dud, so put the previous one back in. I think I have an old unused adsl lead, micro filter yes, different router, don't think so...think he binned his previous one. I have my old Livebox router but that was with Orange, would it work with his broadband being Sky? That may be a silly question, but I've no idea.

Probably best for your mate to contact the ISP and tell them that the sync speed is unacceptable when checked from the test socket and that a quiet line test was done with perfect results.

What the ISP will do about it is anybodies guess though...

Yes I think we'll give that a try next. I'm sure there are things they can do there end. He did ring once, the things they mentioned about doing, cleaning cache, cookies, browsing history, another phone on the line, moving it to the master socket all done with no improvement, in fact before I left with having done 3 restarts, the down sync speed actually dropped a fraction! I think they mentioned about sending him a new router, but I don't think there is anything wrong with it, the issue is exchange side I feel.

In the interim, if you get a chance, it would still be a good idea to sort out the extension wiring, i.e. remove the ring wire etc. I believe fitting an iPlate http://www.shop.bt.com/products/bt-iplate---bt-broad... might do a similar thing if doing any work on the wiring is inconvenient, although I've never used one...

Thanks 4M2, worth a look, might well be easier and @£7.64 delivered, cheap as chips!

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/videos/iplate-installa...

Your only problem might be that the NTE5 shown in your photo takes machine screws and the longer screws supplied with the iplate are probably self tappers. However one would have the same problem if trying to fit a filtered faceplate also. It's not a major problem but the brass female threads in the NTE5 might get a little chewed up.

4M2 Thanks for the video link. Always nice to see it being done first. I should be alright with that. He has ordered one, should be here Wednesday.

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-May-13 09:17:24)