What Spec Cable should connect BT to Master Socket?

Should there be twisted pair copper between my house telephone external box -where the wire arrives from the pole - & the master socket which I know that I must not touch? There is actually something like white sheathed very thin steel burglar alarm cable that is most certainly not copper nor twisted pair CAT????.

Edited by chris52 (Mon 14-Oct-13 14:36:28)

It should be to the appropriate BT spec - could be CW1308 if straight through a wall or CW1308B - external grade if it runs along walls. And in some cases I have seen them use CW1411/1417 drop wire for short lengths.

Burglar alarm cable will not do, especially if it is more that a few centimetres or DSL is involved.

Good

I am having fibre & I don't want there to be any argument about replacing the down lead and having the master socket moved. I know that when the phone was installed the engineer just used the wire that was there because of routing issues.

Could have been a "lazy" job where external grade cable should have to have been transitioned to internal grade cable if the NTE5 is some distance from an external wall?

It was a new build dormer bungalow and the builder left a wire (at my request) that went through the external wall across the top roof space, down the sloping part of the ceiling and ended up at floor level on the far side of the upstairs bedroom. I guess that the BT man was more than delighted to use it as he never said anything and this was long before I had even heard of Cat?? cable or queried what the builder had left. I know what it looked like however.

The installation involved dropping a wire from the telegraph pole to a junction box on the outside wall of the house and connecting a metre loop of the builders fitted cable to it and finally connecting a master socket on the other end. Thus the builders cable was used externally and no BT cable was used at all beyond the outside junction box.

That could give really bad results when it comes to VDSL. Probably fine for voice, ADSL might survive or operate at a lower level that it could, but VDSL will suffer.

I have Googled CW1308 which appears to be 2 twisted pairs & copper. This was 6 untwisted and not copper!

This is all the basis of a good case to have all new so thank you. Tea & choccie biccies might help as well.

PS I live in an area where 2Mb ADSL is good so it worked OK for that.

Edited by chris52 (Mon 14-Oct-13 17:08:25)

For domestic use you will find 2 or 3 pair - but it can be a lot more with the largest being 200 pair!

If you want him to rerun cables, make sure everywhere is easily accessible and cables can be pulled easily. Bacon rolls seem to make cable pulling easier too - something to do with the fat maybe!

In reply to a post by chris52:

The installation involved dropping a wire from the telegraph pole to a junction box on the outside wall of the house and connecting a metre loop of the builders fitted cable to it and finally connecting a master socket on the other end. Thus the builders cable was used externally and no BT cable was used at all beyond the outside junction box.

The vdsl installers should sort that out for you and use the correct wiring between the external junction box and the NTE5

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by chris52:

The installation involved dropping a wire from the telegraph pole to a junction box on the outside wall of the house and connecting a metre loop of the builders fitted cable to it and finally connecting a master socket on the other end. Thus the builders cable was used externally and no BT cable was used at all beyond the outside junction box.

The vdsl installers should sort that out for you and use the correct wiring between the external junction box and the NTE5

Not if it runs through walls and ceiling voids. They do not have to and it will be down to goodwill. Upset them and the master will end up close to the point of entry.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

The vdsl installers should sort that out for you and use the correct wiring between the external junction box and the NTE5

Not if it runs through walls and ceiling voids. They do not have to and it will be down to goodwill. Upset them and the master will end up close to the point of entry.

I see what you mean if the OP wishes to keep the NTE5 on the "far side of the upstairs bedroom."

In reply to a post by chris52:

I have Googled CW1308 which appears to be 2 twisted pairs & copper. This was 6 untwisted and not copper!

This is all the basis of a good case to have all new so thank you. Tea & choccie biccies might help as well.

PS I live in an area where 2Mb ADSL is good so it worked OK for that.

It probably is tinned copper which looks silver or grey, it's unlikely that a builder would have had non-copper. Is it stranded or solid core and do you know the core colours?

The point of entry is in the top loft - a dormer bungalow remember - and the room is very limited with no flooring etc. As I said before the lead then goes down behind the upstairs sloping plasterboard walls into the lower attic space again with no flooring & a long crawl & again very limited space - dropping to skirting board level before coming through the plasterboard into the upstairs room where the master socket is located.

Given all that I am looking at solutions.

Which picks up interference worse? :-
1 the incoming wire before the modem
2 the cable between the modem & the router
3 the cabling between the router and the final wall plate

I am guessing that the modem should be as near to the entry point into the property as possible but I don't know how important that is nor the relative importance of the above

I will see if I can see the colours.

Edited by chris52 (Mon 14-Oct-13 19:33:44)

Ok I have had a look. I cannot see the ends of the incoming cable but it looks identical to the extension cabling that comes out of the socket which was also installed by the builder.

I know that I cannot touch the Master Socket so I have cut a small length off one of the many unused wires of the extension socket cabling.

It is 6 solid with core green , blue & orange + mainly white with occasional stripes of each of the 3 colours.

I have had a good scrape with a Stanley knife & I can confirm it has a coppery sheen after scraping. It is not twisted pair.

Possibly just standard plain white 3 pair telephone extension cable and not really suitable for a vdsl installation via the routing and distance that you describe

In reply to a post by chris52:

The point of entry is in the top loft - a dormer bungalow remember - and the room is very limited with no flooring etc. As I said before the lead then goes down behind the upstairs sloping plasterboard walls into the lower attic space again with no flooring & a long crawl & again very limited space - dropping to skirting board level before coming through the plasterboard into the upstairs room where the master socket is located.

Given all that I am looking at solutions.

Which picks up interference worse? :-
1 the incoming wire before the modem
2 the cable between the modem & the router
3 the cabling between the router and the final wall plate

I am guessing that the modem should be as near to the entry point into the property as possible but I don't know how important that is nor the relative importance of the above

Interference ... i depends on where the source is relative to the cable. It also depends on the cable type. Flat untwisted will pick up interference easily, twisted will cause it to be rejected (without going into too much detail).

Of the three you have, only the incoming wire to the router will be susceptible to noise. Once it has left the modem it is Ethernet which runs at a much higher level and the noise level is right down so unlikely to cause any problems.

My personal preference and recommendation is to get the modem on the line as early as possible. If you can do that and then in your own time feed some Cat5e along the route of that cable you can then put your router where you want it.

In reply to a post by chris52:

Which picks up interference worse? :-
1 the incoming wire before the modem
2 the cable between the modem & the router
3 the cabling between the router and the final wall plate

I am guessing that the modem should be as near to the entry point into the property as possible but I don't know how important that is nor the relative importance of the above

I think that the answer to this might help as it looks like I might be getting the master socket moved.

I am assuming that they will still climb a ladder to an external box about 6 metres up. The original engineer fitted rings in the brickwork to secure his ladder.

Edited by chris52 (Mon 14-Oct-13 20:40:34)