fibre router/modem advice please

Hi all,

I am currently in the process of completing a new self build home for me and Mrs J58 and am about to select our FIBRE ISP. We have the option of both a BT line and a Virgin line and have both choices ready for connection dependant on who we go with. It will likely be either BT, Plusnet, Sky or EE (not TalkTalk or SSE because of their poor reviews) At our previous location we had both BT & EE & other than the lacklustre BT tech support, they were fine.

At the moment I am likely to get a BT line installed first, giving me the option to go with Virgin in the future if I decide to.

What I want to do, however, is not to have to rely on the supplied router/modem from whichever ISP I go with (whichever offers the best deal at the time!), so I would like to buy my own router modem.

Research / recommends have narrowed the choice down to either...
The Netgear D7000
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ZU1T8C0
or the ASUS DSL-AC68U
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00O27PHGY

I'm no technophobe, but my experience in networking / routers is not exactly great, so assume very low knowledge levels.

What is the view on these choices please? How difficult would they be to configure for example.

Cheers & thanks in advance.

When you say FIBRE do you mean FTTC/VDSL or FTTH?

And what does the BT checker actually suggest you can get? Based on address or postcode and that of neighbours phone numbers.

I mean FTTC either BT Infinity or similar - that means VDSL doesn't it?

As far as speed is concerned, with an all new connection & fibre definitely available I'd expect up to the maximum possible... 38mbs / 52mbs

Thanks for the reply

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-May-16 13:46:00)

Yes, VDSL2 is the technology, FTTC the generic name to describe the product and Infinity is BTs marketing name.

It might be a new connection and FTTC available that does not mean full speed! It will depend on, predominantly, how far you are from the cabinet plus a few other factors which will vary that slightly. Do you know where the cabinet is? And approx how far it is by road?

The Netgear D7000 and Asus DSL-AC68 are relatively old routers now and if you would get far far better performance if you went for something like the Netgear D7800 (if on a ECI FTTC cab) or TP Link VR2600 if on a Huawei FTTC cab. If money is no object and you want ultimate wifi coverage then go for the new Linksys EA9500 hooked up to the BT open reach vdsl2 modem.

Our connection is via one new BT supplied armoured cable directly from the build to the first BT pavement "junction box" which is a length of approximately 40m. The box is another 100m away.

In reply to a post by janner58:

Our connection is via one new BT supplied armoured cable directly from the build to the first BT pavement "junction box" which is a length of approximately 40m. The box is another 100m away.

Is that the FTTC cabinet?

If so, then at 140m and add another 60m to be really sure ... you should be able to get a full 80Mbps (sync) & 76Mbps (actual speed) with a good bit of headroom.

Yes that is to the green BT cabinet. Our Virgin media box is only 2m from the boundary of our plot!

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

The Netgear D7000 and Asus DSL-AC68 are relatively old routers now and if you would get far far better performance if you went for something like the Netgear D7800 (if on a ECI FTTC cab) or TP Link VR2600 if on a Huawei FTTC cab. If money is no object and you want ultimate wifi coverage then go for the new Linksys EA9500 hooked up to the BT open reach vdsl2 modem.

Are you thinking about any particular feature with these routers? I do want to be able to stream 4K TV

To be honest if streaming 4K TV then to ensure no issues you want to be using Ethernet, no matter how expensive the WiFi router, since WiFi will always be prone to interruption.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

To be honest if streaming 4K TV then to ensure no issues you want to be using Ethernet, no matter how expensive the WiFi router, since WiFi will always be prone to interruption.

Thanks Andrew,

I do plan to have a wired network with points adjacent to the TV, so that is fine. I'm connecting them through a patch panel and a NETGEAR GS608-400UKS 8 Port Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mbps Switch.

Is the router not important enough to pay a premium for then?

If you go with BT give the home hub 5 a try before you buy another router.

AC wifi and gigabit Ethernet mean it's pretty good for an ISP supplied device.

In reply to a post by janner58:

I do plan to have a wired network with points adjacent to the TV, so that is fine. I'm connecting them through a patch panel and a NETGEAR GS608-400UKS 8 Port Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mbps Switch.

Is the router not important enough to pay a premium for then?

8-port?

If it is not too late, think about putting in significantly more than that.

For example, where you want the TV - four ports as you may have TV, DVD player/recorder, multimedia player ... Other places in the lounge, a couple more pairs, bedrooms/study two or four in each, even the kitchen should be considered. Plus any large utility or store rooms - to connect to any intruder alarms or home automation. If you do not do it now, you will be cursing in a few years.

Think about the loft, or high points in the house such as stair wells - you can then site a WAP there to give decent Wi-Fi coverage.

I originally went, what some might consider, over the top. However 6 or so years later, I am happy although I have found a couple of places where I actually need additional connectivity.

And remember, Wi-Fi is laggy and variable in speed. Not something to use when a consistent high data rate is required for streaming - just use that for iPads/tablets/phones &c. Wired is always best for consistency.

Yes, I realise the need for future proofing. - hence the patch panel. Install several wired network points now and terminate them all in the patch panel. I can then add to (or replace) the Netgear switch easily as more of the points are required.

Good, at least run the cables in!

I have 2x24 patch panels wired fully and a third about to be installed.

For VDSL2 if not trying to break records for WiFi and critical kit is using Ethernet then almost any of the currently available routers will suffice.

The bigger question is over which have the most stable VDSL2 side. If you want to have gold plated then the best solution is a separate VDSL2 modem and standalone router. Since the modem can be cheaper and is the risky bit i.e. killed by lightning or outdated by changes to VDSL2 standard, but the investment in expensive router can survice all the way from VDSL2 to Gigabit fibre premium

Very true, surprising how many complain about a £1/m rise in phone/broadband price but splurge £150+ on their own kit without blinking an eye,

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Very true, surprising how many complain about a £1/m rise in phone/broadband price but splurge £150+ on their own kit without blinking an eye,

One of them is voluntary and results in something you can touch and feel, the other isn't and is just a steady drip to some faceless organisation... there's no rule that says people have to be logical

In reply to a post by MHC:

And remember, Wi-Fi is laggy and variable in speed. Not something to use when a consistent high data rate is required for streaming - just use that for iPads/tablets/phones &c. Wired is always best for consistency.

Sorry but that's rubbish, we are living in 2016 not in 2001 ie wifi technology has signficantly improved. Whilst I agree that wired is always preferable to wireless, using a high end 802.11ac Mu-Mimo router will give you wifi speeds which are more than adequate for HD streaming provided you're not living in a >5 floor mansion and choose the right channel . For example, in our 3 floor house we have 2 TVs connected to MAG IPTV boxes and they get all sky channels streamed wirelessly in HD without any buffering at all...router (Linksys EA8500) is on ground floor and TV's are on floors 1 and 2. So its bit of a sweeping statement to say ALL wifi is bad when it clearly depends on what type of router your have. I suspect you might be referring to wifi on mass market ISP supplied routers (hardly top end) or £19.99 routers you get from Argos.

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-May-16 11:25:21)

No it is not.

There is still significant lag in a WiFi system compared to a fully wired. There is no getting away from it.

You have no personal control over a WiFi link - there will always be competition for channels, users on the same channels will be trying to use the same bandwidth. We have systems in place which can deliver very high data rates, however, for critical activities including video streaming we use fixed wiring or fibre. And no I am not talking about cheap end systems.

So... to cut to the chase...

I will have a wired network & will connect all fixed items by cable.

Should I stick with the following ISP supplied hardware or buy my own?

BT HH 5 - keep or replace?
EE Brightbox - keep or replace?
Plusnet box - keep or replace?
SKY box - keep or replace?

Then perhaps you'd like to explain why i'm able to stream Sky HD channels wirelessly over 802.11ac without any buffering over 3 floors or why my desktop pc connected wirelessly gives me pings of 24ms to TBB, only 1ms worse versus a wired connection.

Some real world tests for you

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-rev...

Alas you are both correct, the variation depends on where you are and the RF environment and how nicely the different client devices play with the specific hardware.

So yes 802.11ac will cut the mustard for many people, but if planning to stream to main house TV still best to aim for an Ethernet connection for the device.

Thanks for all the comment. I've bought this...
TP-LINK Archer VR900 AC 1900 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit VDSL2/ADSL2+ Modem Router for Phone Line Connections (Compatible with 4K streaming/View IPTV/BT Infinity/TalkTalk/EE/Plusnet Fibre/LTE Support)
("Used-as new" from Amazon Warehouse for £77 )

In reply to a post by janner58:

We have the option of both a BT line and a Virgin line and have both choices ready for connection dependant on who we go with.

Probably too late now but I don't see why anyone would want to take on the horrendous rental charges for a BT line if they don't have to.

I have a mobile contract with 1500 minutes for £6, about 1/3 of the BT line rental most will charge. 1500 is more than I will use and calls to other mobiles which would likely account for the majority of chargeable calls on a land line are free.

From a value for money perspective Virgin for internet and mobile for phone is almost a no brainer.

In reply to a post by RB291:

I have a mobile contract with 1500 minutes for £6, about 1/3 of the BT line rental most will charge. 1500 is more than I will use and calls to other mobiles which would likely account for the majority of chargeable calls on a land line are free.

That looks like a good price, who is the provider?

From a value for money perspective Virgin for internet and mobile for phone is almost a no brainer.

The problems with mobile phones are that they need a signal, and their batteries go flat particularly when the signal is very weak.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

That looks like a good price, who is the provider?

Life Mobile through uswitch although their current offer is only 1000 minutes (and 5k texts/1G data) for 5p less. (1 month contract, EE 3G network).

Thanks. I must look at uswitch the next time I have to renew a contract.