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Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 16-Nov-17 00:05:37
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Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Please


[link to this post]
 
Recently I've added a Netgear Managed switch to my PlusNet HomeHub Modem, but unfortunately whilst the setup works it requires resetting at least every day.

It connects quite happily via cat6 20metres of cable at 1Gbps, but when it needs resetting, the Netgear Prosafe Utility indicates that it has changed to one of the Microsoft APIPA address range and cannot be reset from this utility either.
Some of the Netgear Info says "169.254.x.x is indicative of a DHCP failure". I have tried this managed switch in both DHCP on or off and the PlusNet Router is DHCP enabled.

I haven't been able to work out what's causing this issue and it is an area that I'm not that well clued up in.
I wondered whether it would be better to get an unmanaged switch or could I find the same issues?
I wanted to try a managed switch so that i could see just how much data certain devices were taking eg NowTV and Amazon Video..

When the setup is working there doesn't appear to be any issues and when I've think I've altered something and it's been stable it only goes to prove me wrong!

WiFi on 2.4Ghz and 5 Ghz is still on mainly for Mobile phones/tablets etc. The switch caters for the 1xPC, 1xLaptop (both at 1Gbps) and 1xDVD Player and 1XTV (Both at 100Mbps)

I appeciate any ideas - many thanks.

Edited by Vorlon (Thu 16-Nov-17 05:51:32)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 16-Nov-17 14:58:43
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
For fixed infrastructure like a switch much better to use a static local IP outside your DHCP range

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Nov-17 07:29:53
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
For fixed infrastructure like a switch much better to use a static local IP outside your DHCP range


Do you mean, assign the devices static IP addresses rather than using DHCP?


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Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Nov-17 09:39:32
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
It would make sense to assign the switch itself a static IP address. The address should be outside the range of any DHCP server that you have. The devices which are connected by the switch can use DHCP.

Michael Chare
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Nov-17 19:39:57
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
It would make sense to assign the switch itself a static IP address. The address should be outside the range of any DHCP server that you have. The devices which are connected by the switch can use DHCP.


So I'm assuming i assign a static IP address for the switch via the router settings intead of allowing the switch to use DHCP?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 17-Nov-17 19:51:44
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
No, in the configuration of the switch itself you are setting its IP address, gateway etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 17-Nov-17 20:48:35
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
No, in the configuration of the switch itself you are setting its IP address, gateway etc


I have tried that with different static IP addresses and the issue remains.

So for instance the PlusNet router is at 192.168.1.254
and the switch I have tried between 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.252

For instance it's been ok for 36 hours now and its IP is 192.168.1.82.

If I try anything like the default IP address of the switch to be of a different range, which is apparently it's default when not initially connected to a system of 192.168.0.239 I get messages that I'm not on the same subnet.
However I've included the switch after the system has been powered on and from what I've read it's new IP that I've picked is still ok?

I think what hasn't helped too is that it's intermittent. If it just didn't work I think it would be easier for me to see what was wrong.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 00:18:51
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
You need to set the switch to a fixed IP address which is outside the DHCP range of the router.

For example if the router IP address is 192.168.1.254 you could set the DHCP range to run from 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.99. You could then set the switch to have an address of 192.168.1.100, subnet 255.255.255.0, gateway and DNS server to 192.168.1.254

Michael Chare
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 00:43:50
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Thanks Michael, i'll give that a try.

I've just noted that there are two selectable ranges on the Plusnet router and the one ie the default one that I've been using is:- 192.168.1.64 - 192.168.1.253 (Default)

However i have tried fixed addresses on the switch of lower than 192.168.1.64 with the problem still happening. But I'll definetly do what you've suggested and see what happens smile

Ive tried those settings and everything works as before, however I just lost internet connection but this time the switch and laptop link remained without getting the yellow icon on the ethernet taskbar icon as before. I reset the switch and its working again?
In fact I'm having to reboot the Switch every 10 minutes now as Internet connectivity is lost, but the great thing is i don't have to reset the switches power or reset it using a pin, the Netgear Software Utility still works unlike before when problem occurred and I can use that to reset.

Edited by Vorlon (Sat 18-Nov-17 01:48:17)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 18-Nov-17 09:23:21
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Something is not right, managed switches should run for years once configured, so either you've messed something up or its broke.

Recommendation - send it back and just use an unmanaged switch. Unless you fancy a day spent figuring it out

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 10:49:41
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Something is not right, managed switches should run for years once configured, so either you've messed something up or its broke.

Recommendation - send it back and just use an unmanaged switch. Unless you fancy a day spent figuring it out


I have got a netgear unmanaged type so I may well end up using that. I was hoping it was going to be far more straightforward and help me see more about my network, but it's just odd, perhaps it doesn't like the PlusNet router for some reason.

I have tried the other fixed range the PN router offers ie 172.16.0.64 - 172.16.255.254 and it's on that now. I have initially set the Netgear switch to DHCP enabled as that was the more stable setting than specifying an IP address.

Am i right in thinking that in general when you Enable a Switches DHCP that is for instance in a setup like mine ie connected to a modem/router, that all the switch does is "say" <include me into the DHCP pool> .
Plus when you Disable the Switches DHCP it just allows you to assign the switch a fixed IP address.
What I'm trying to ask is, am I right in thinking that these cheaper managed switches don't have the same sort of DHCP function as a modem/router does in as much as the switch doesn't assign IP addresses as the modem/router does. If I am right the option to enable/disable DHCP on the switch isn't actually as literal as it is meant on a modem/router?
Standard User G2covers
(newbie) Sat 18-Nov-17 12:18:36
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
A DHCP client performs the first and third parts of a four-stage process that is a more complicated, though entirely straightforward, version of what you mean by "say".

The phases are 'Server Discovery', 'IP lease offer', 'IP lease request' and 'IP lease acknowledgement' - the second and fourth stages being performed by the DHCP server. This is commonly known as "DORA": discovery, offer, request, acknowledgement.

The client needs an IP so looks for any available DHCP server, the server receives this discovery request and offers an available IP from its DHCP pool, the client confirms it will take that IP and the the server acknowledges this.

As you commendably seem to be persevering with this (sorry, that sounds patronising and it's not meant to!) having as clear as possible an idea of what is actually going on will help. Moreover, this points out the difference between a DHCP client and a DHCP server in case there is any confusion there.

Which leads us into your last paragraph... no, switches don't work the way a modem/router does, and they don't assign IP addresses. They work at the Data-Link layer, sending data as 'frames' between MAC addresses, whereas routers work at the Network layer *, sending data as 'packets' between IP addresses.

As others have already said, you should manually assign your switch an IP that is outside the DHCP pool on your DHCP server (your PlusNet router), but it can get an IP via DHCP - and indeed probably defaults to that out-of-the-box for easier setup - and in this scenario it is functioning as a DHCP client. It is doing the D and R in 'DORA', not the O and A.

So many consumer devices these days are jack-of-all-trades, at least if you want them to be, so despite what I said above about layers 2 and 3 it is possible that your managed switch has a DHCP server bundled with it and that when you say you are "enabling DHCP" you are turning on an additional DHCP server (to the one on your router) rather than telling the switch to get its IP via DHCP. If so, this would be <Trump>Bad!</Trump> smile

As your PlusNet router is already functioning as your DHCP server you don't want anything else trying to do the same job. I'm oversimplifying but you can think of them as fighting over the DHCP clients and potentially causing DHCP failures. It could be at least part of your problem, if not the whole thing. Another reason to manually assign the switch's IP - so every 'DHCP' option on your switch can be disabled for minimal confusion.

* N.B. for other techies: yes, this is not the only over-simplification here but I have deliberately left out any mention of Layer 3 switches, subnets, VLANs, superscope etc. to try not to complicate matters any more than necessary

Edited by G2covers (Sat 18-Nov-17 16:38:22)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 13:18:15
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Vorlon:
Am i right in thinking that in general when you Enable a Switches DHCP that is for instance in a setup like mine ie connected to a modem/router, that all the switch does is "say" <include me into the DHCP pool> .
Essentially yes, but it would be better to say that the switch will look for a DHCP and then get assigned an address.

Plus when you Disable the Switches DHCP it just allows you to assign the switch a fixed IP address.
Yes, you have to assign an IP address etc.

What I'm trying to ask is, am I right in thinking that these cheaper managed switches don't have the same sort of DHCP function as a modem/router does in as much as the switch doesn't assign IP addresses as the modem/router does.
I doubt any switch would act as a DHCP server.

If I am right the option to enable/disable DHCP on the switch isn't actually as literal as it is meant on a modem/router?
Correct, the switch acts in the same way as almost everything else you can connect to an IP network. Devices that don't let you assign a fixed address are unusual.

Assigning a fixed address to a switch just makes it easy to access the web management. If you also assign a fixed address to your PC or whatever you are using to contact the switch, you would be able to make contact even if your router is not working, so long as there is a physical path.

Michael Chare
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 14:29:11
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Many thanks G2 Covers for the in depth explanation and thanks Michael for responding to my questions. Whilst I'm a bit of a geek in other areas, networking has always alluded me as I've not been involved with it during my career.

But these days with so many devices having data connectivity via Wifi/Wired and the market accommodating nicely I wanted to brush up on it, but now I'm wondering if this Netgear Smart Switch was a wise choice. I would have stuck with WiFi but with so many other connections in the building I found peak times the worst for things like TV video streaming.

The state of play at present is that it's been working without issues since this morning. The current set up is :-

PlusNet Hub One: DHCP IP range set to it's pre determined second option: 172.16.0.64 - 172.16.255.254
PlusNet Hub One: Own IP Address: 172.16.0.1
PlusNet Hub One: Own SubNet Mask: 255.255.0.0

Netgear GS108Ev3: It's IP Address: 172.16.0.65 DHCP is Enabled on this Switch.
I know you've all suggested this is a bad idea and I understand why, but oddly it appears to be the most stable setup.

The Odd thing was though when I did as Michael had written literally to the letter , ie set a range of IP addresses on the PN HH One and then set a fixed IP address on the switch which was outside of the PN One's set DHCP IP address range - the network would fallover after around 10 minutes. The thing that was very different is that the Netgear Utility would still access the Switch which it wouldnt do before. Also I found I could reset the switch from the Utility without having to muck around with a cotton bud stem or having to cycle the power. Plus the connectivity task bar Icon remained connected, but of course the internet wasn't being routed.

Any theories?
Should I throw the towel in and just connect an unmanaged switch as I do have a Netgear GS208 somewhere or would it be advisable to steer clear of the Netgear switches and Purchase something like a Dlink, Linksys or TPLink?

Edited by Vorlon (Sat 18-Nov-17 15:57:20)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 18-Nov-17 17:02:37
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
The subnet mask is important. I would set the router subnet mask to 255.255.255.0 and make sure that is what DHCP then allocates to all your devices such as your PC etc. I would do that for both the 172.16.x.x and the 192.168.x.x type addresses.

If you don't, you may find that thinks like Windows workgroups and Samba will not work. That may give trouble using local file servers (NAS).

Michael Chare
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Sat 18-Nov-17 18:42:28
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Vorlon:
it requires resetting at least every day.


There's been a lot of talk about how to go about allocating an IP address to the switch, but you don't actually say what goes wrong "when it needs resetting". Not in the first post, but you slightly allude to a problem later on.

What actually goes wrong? What are the symptoms?
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 19-Nov-17 08:43:40
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: WWWombat] [link to this post]
 
Yes,when it goes wrong, the devices like my PC, TV , Laptop etc will lose connectivity with the switch and for instance the windows taskbar icons will indicate a connectivity error by displaying yellow mark.
Also the switch will indicate using the Netgear ProSafe software an Apipa address under the heading of "Located on IP Network" which normally indicates the IP address of my Laptop which I have the said Netgear ProSafe software installed on.

Although when the Netgear Software will indicate this Apipa address I cannot use this utility to reboot the Switch, so that has to be reset via its reset switch or by recycling power.

It's still working at present using the PN home hubs second IP range selection choice of 172.16.0.64 - 172.16.255.254, where I believe a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 must be used and tht subnet mask is indicated too in the switch software. Also the switches "DHCP" is enabled.

So far it hasn't gone wrong on these settings, but if these IP's are not in an ideal address range for other hardware then i assume I'll see other issues down the road and maybe the unmanaged switch is the way to go?

Edited by Vorlon (Sun 19-Nov-17 08:46:02)

Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 20-Nov-17 09:56:43
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately I lost connectivity from the switch to all other devices after turning my PC on last night which is also connected to the switch via Cat 6 cable and at 1Gbps. In this case it was the same issue with the original set up ie when the Plusnet Hub One was set to its default IP range. I had been trying the Secondary range offered for selection by the PN HH ie 172.16.0.64 - 172.16.255.254 and my laptop and Smart TV also both connected to the switch had been working to that point. Again network connectivity was lost rather than the Internet going across it, indicated by the Ethernet taskbar Icons displaying the yellow mark.

I appreciate all the help you guys have given and I suppose there is the possibility that the Netgear switch doesn't play nice with the Home Hub. I wanted to at least get the switch going with the PN HH before I changed over to a TPlink VR900 VDSL/Router just to know if technical support ever insisted I had to use their router for fault finding I'd know how things were.

I have seen many a post with people commenting on switches defaulting to the Apipa addresses, but have found nothing that I think quite fits with my scenario.
Anyway I think the best bet for me is to use the Netgear GS208-100UKS unmanaged switch which I bought awhile ago and hope it'll be ok with the PlusNet HH.

The whole idea why I went for a managed switch is not that I really wanted to manage it, but rather I wanted something via it's software to give me an idea on the seperate connected items data usage, particularly when it comes to HD TV streaming. This problem for me switch does give some basic info via the Netgear Prosafe software, but it's very limited and to be honest i did not know what to expect from an entry level managed switch, as it's all fairly new ground for me.

Thanks for those who helped anyway, I've got a better understanding than I did have!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 20-Nov-17 12:11:27
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
If the fail is linked to a PC always turning on, then it may be something around the IP address the PC is using or trying to use clashing.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User WWWombat
(knowledge is power) Tue 21-Nov-17 10:05:44
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Vorlon:
Yes,when it goes wrong, the devices like my PC, TV , Laptop etc will lose connectivity with the switch and for instance the windows taskbar icons will indicate a connectivity error by displaying yellow mark.


If your devices are losing connectivity with other devices on the switch, then that is a problem with L2 switching, not with L3 IP address routing.

It looks like the switch *only* uses its L3 IP address as the target for maintenance activities. If that IP address changes, it should only affect attempts at maintenance, and it shouldn't affect any layer 2 switching activities.
Standard User jabuzzard
(learned) Tue 21-Nov-17 14:04:32
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: G2covers] [link to this post]
 
Well I have the GS116Ev2 which is the 16 port version of the same switch, and I can assure you that mine does not behave in this manner. Though to be clear I have never used the Netgear utility to set it up because yuck and there being no Linux version.

This is a Layer 2.5 smart managed switch. That is it managed but does not offer full layer 3 features. My recommendation is to forget the nasty piece of Netgear software point a web browser at the IP and make sure it is configured to a static IP address that way you can find it again easily in the future.

I would also recommend making sure the firmware is up to date.

The nasty Netgear software can find the switch because it talks to them at layer 2 aka no IPv4/IPv6 involved. It just sends raw ethernet packets out. In theory it makes setup easier because you don't need to find out what it's IP address is before you can configure it.

That said unless you are using any of the managed features then probably not a great idea to use a managed switch. Though that said the basic switch chipsets from the likes of Broadcom are all layer 2.5 managed these days. Moore's Law and all. Personally I use a VLAN for a guest WiFi network and QoS so my Vodafone SureSignal gets priority above everything else. I was going to use LAG but Netgear lied on the original spec sheet. Transpires it only supports static LAG which does not work with my Linux based server frown

On the subject of switches doing DHCP, well get a proper layer 3 managed switch and there is a very good chance that it will have a DHCP server that you can configure.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 21-Nov-17 15:08:54
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: jabuzzard] [link to this post]
 
Thanks guys, but at present I'm left just resetting the switch every so often and my switch experience doesn't reach the level (without more researching) i need to understand what's going on.

Two other things, could it be it doesn't get on with the plusnet home hub? and on the browser access mode, information seems limited in comparison to using the netgear software.

I will be connecting the unmanaged switch i have asap.

Edit: Switches Firmware is up to date - it was one of the first things I updated.

Edited by Vorlon (Tue 21-Nov-17 16:26:34)

Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Nov-17 15:08:49
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Couple of things I just wanted to add and check.

The Netgear switch connects to my PlusNet router and all my devices are connected to the switch including the Laptop I use to set up the switch with Netgear Software or Browser. So the switch has to be negotiated (or data go via it) in every case.

The other thing is, if my laptop should go into sleep or off mode and all the other connections are off which are connected to the switch could the switch be seeing it's default IP. Snippet from Netgear GS108ev3 pdf manual,
By default, the switch IP address works as follows:

If you cable the switch to a network with a DHCP server before you power on the switch,
the DHCP server assigns an IP address to the switch when the switch is powered on.

If you power on the switch when it is not connected to a network with a DHCP server, the
switch uses its default IP address, which is 192.168.0.239.
You can disable the DHCP mode in the switch and enter static IP address and subnet
mask values for the switch as well as the address of the gateway device used by the
switch.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Nov-17 15:51:06
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
The text you quote just explains how the switch gets an IP address. What your laptop is doing is irrelevant.

Michael Chare
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 22-Nov-17 17:12:16
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
The IP address of the switch management interface should also make zero difference to its ability to throw packets between the various ports on the switch

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 22-Nov-17 21:19:40
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
The text you quote just explains how the switch gets an IP address. What your laptop is doing is irrelevant.


I was just wondering as the default switch IP address is quite different from the default PlusNet Routers address range ie different subnet Mask?? that could possible cause an issue if the switch goes back to it's default mode if it loses connectivity (on purpose so to speak) if the connected devices are shutdown?

Just a thought, but I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 22-Nov-17 21:40:40
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
The management IP address of the switch management interface should not be affecting its ability to switch traffic between ports

This should only be a problem for accessing the switches management interface

The switch is meant to be plug and play, i.e. no need to access management interface unless you need the extra configuration and statistics monitoring.

So factory reset it, and see how it goes with just using it like a dumb normal switch for a while

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Nov-17 01:26:39
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes I do that Andrew. Whenever i have tried any suggestion and things have subsequently gone wrong I always reset the Switch. The only thing I've occasionally done is used the Netgear Utility after a reset to check it's status without altering anything.
However next time it does anything odd I'll reset it but not use the Netgear Utility at all and see if that alters it's operation.

The only other odd behavior that I haven't thought could of caused any issues is with my laptop that is connected to the switch and where the Netgear software resides.This has been after the Windows 10 Creators Update 1709 where I still intermittently lose my Start menu/Tiles. I wonder if there could be anything else effecting the switch that wouldn't normally jump to mind?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 23-Nov-17 08:52:06
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Unless the PC is trying to run its own DHCP connection, or a network interface has a cloned MAC address on it, or you've got a static IP clash the behaviour of the PC should be irrelevant

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User prlzx
(experienced) Thu 23-Nov-17 15:35:25
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Has anyone considered that the cables between switch and router and possibly other items may have a bad connection?

Modern operating systems tend to regularly poll for Internet connectivity and may behave differently when the gateway and/or DNS becomes unavailable.
Phones in particular will often have an advanced setting enabled by default to switch back to 3/4G rather than sit on a WLAN without gateway or with loss of Internet, though I admit these are likely connected directly to the router.
Even Windows monitors this and shows it in the Network and Sharing Centre status.

A device activating its link-local address could be one symptom of this as a layer 1/2 issue.

Resetting the switch to defaults should never be necessary unless you have lost access to the management interface and need to change a setting. Having to reboot the switch suggests that either it locks up or there is a more basic connectivity issue.

But I used to see the Netgear smart switches under load either leak mac tables between VLANs or lose their management interfaces, or lockup completely and stop passing traffic on a regular basis, and then they started coming with some pre-defined VLANs 1-3 which you couldn't delete (the first PoE .at switch we tried too).
Having problems that went away when changing to Cisco SG series (and having much better diagnostics on board including copper TDR and fibre signal checks) meant we stopped using Netgear quickly after that.

This was about 5-6 years ago, and I have a feeling the unmanaged stuff would just keep going being more about the underlying switch chip (e.g. Broadcom) and the retail branding only being about the case, not how the innards behave.



prlzx on iDNET: VDSL / 21CN at ~40Mbps / 10Mbps
with IP4/6 (no v6? - not true Internet)

Edited by prlzx (Thu 23-Nov-17 15:36:07)

Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Nov-17 16:43:47
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the good feedback.

If i was to point to one thing outside of the switch, router or setting etc that could be a weak spot it would be the cat 6 cable (flat type) that is connecting at 1Gbps between switch and modem with the run at 20metres. I've generally been careful in purchasing flat cables and generally buying the type that are supposed to exceed cat 6 and are sold as this phantom cat 7 rating.

I have noted though that when things are ok I get a good throughput via the cables. It will be easier to install the unmanaged switch than run another cable so that will be my first choice. But of course if there is any messing about after that I'll certainly see what I can do in regard to replacing that switch to router cable. I may also change the router over in the mix before any cable change to a TPlink VR900 - that would be the easiest route to go I believe.

Edited by Vorlon (Thu 23-Nov-17 16:46:15)

Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Nov-17 17:29:22
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by prlzx:
This was about 5-6 years ago, and I have a feeling the unmanaged stuff would just keep going being more about the underlying switch chip (e.g. Broadcom) and the retail branding only being about the case, not how the innards behave.

I hope the time will come when I can buy a 16 port Gigabit managed switch for less that £100. Will I be lucky?

Michael Chare
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 23-Nov-17 17:36:05
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Amazon

NETGEAR GS116Ev2 16-Port Gigabit Smart Managed Plus Switch, ProSAFE Lifetime Protection
by NETGEAR
£88.84
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Nov-17 18:57:42
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Thank you. There is also a Zyxel GS1900-16 which at the moment is not available on Amazon, I will have to study the specs.

Michael Chare
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Nov-17 22:58:31
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
I've tried connecting to different spare ports (ie swapping over) and have noted that any of the ports on the Plusnet router other than Port 1, the cable connects at 100Mbps. When connected to port 1 (my initial choice on the router) connection is at 1Gbps. Although these figures are not immediately obvious other than the Port 1 @ 1Gbps. The other router ports 2-4 seem to degrade to 100Mbps after several minutes after initially connecting at 1Gbps.
I've also noted that sometimes and regardless of if the setup is working is that the switch will appear as a device in the routers information screens and sometimes it won't!

Also using a browser to access the switch to use the cable check feature, all appears ok there. Although I have no idea as to how accurate these switches are in checking the cables condition.

Edited by Vorlon (Thu 23-Nov-17 23:02:43)

Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Fri 24-Nov-17 02:08:29
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:
Thank you. There is also a Zyxel GS1900-16 which at the moment is not available on Amazon, I will have to study the specs.
Zyxel don't appear to market the GS1900-16 in the UK. I bought mine via Amazon.com. Total cost including shipping and import duties was £100.02 (Switch £64.04, £17.06 Delivery, £18.45 Duty & VAT)
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Nov-17 10:05:55
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Do you like your Zylex GS1900-16? Have you made much use of vlans etc?

Amazon UK do sell the 24 port version for £90. The 16 port version from the USA was well over £100 when I tried.

Michael Chare
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Fri 24-Nov-17 15:42:33
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Michael,
To be completely honest I am using few of the facilities offered by the switch. Currently my only use of multiple VLANs is in using a separate VLAN for my guest wifi. Even now 18 or so months down the line I've still not got it configured quite how I initially intended but the fault there is mine not the switch.

I went for the 16 port rather than the 24 port due to the significantly smaller size of the 16 port. 216mm wide against 440mm. I currently have 13 devices connected plus the router giving me 2 spare ports. Due to my layout I have another 2 devices connected directly to the router.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 24-Nov-17 15:51:59
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
Everything has been sort of ok and it's increasingly looking like a cat 6 cable that isn't of the quality it should be. Connecting the cable (between switch an PN Hub) and simply trying a different ethernet port on the plusnet router seems to give different results. Ports 2-4 seem to intermittently slow to 100Mbps (yet start off at 1Gbps) whilst port 1 will remain at 1 Gbps all day.
I'll get a replacement cable of the flat type I have used since that are of a far better quality than the one I happened to use for this 20 metre run.
Standard User Vorlon
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 28-Nov-17 11:15:49
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Re: Netgear GS108Ev3 defaulting to APIPA address - Help Plea


[re: Vorlon] [link to this post]
 
After cleaning the PN Home Hub RJ45 contacts by using the dry wipe method, basically inserting/removing a decent quality new/clean RJ45 plug I now have a stable Netgear switch. The RJ45 plugs on the Cat 6 cable I've been using look like their contacts could be a lot better than they are.
I'll be altering things around when I can and I'll replace this particular cable with one of the Cat7 flat ethernet cables made by Primewire that i think I got from Amazon.

I appreciate all the feedback.
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