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Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Fri 19-Jun-20 18:45:50
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Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[link to this post]
 
I'm following up on this post regarding network speed testing using iPerf3 to test the connection speed between a desktop PC and a dock-connected MS Surface Pro 4 (so it's connected to gigabit ethernet), both running Windows 10 and both showing truly abysmal speeds in things like copying files/folders between machines.

After disabling AV and anti-malware on both machines, I tested again and found that the speed in either direction using iPerf3 was never more than about 600Mbps, though file copying from the desktop PC to the SP4 reported speeds of less than 1Mbps, which was a serious concern. Oddly enough, file operations between each of the PCs and my QNAP NAS are at least 70MB/s so the woeful PC-to-PC performance is a surprise.

As suggested by someone in my previous post on this subject, I installed Ubuntu and iPerf3 on a couple of bootable USB thumb drives and booted both PCs with them. iPerf3 speed testing shows around 950 Mbps in either direction between the desktop and SP4, so that discounts any hardware issues.

The above must mean that Windows 10 must have really poor inter-PC networking, but if so then I'm at a loss to know what to do about it. The performance is so bad that it's much quicker for me to copy my files from the desktop PC to a folder on the NAS, then copy those files from the NAS to my SP4 - copying directly between those two PCs is excruciatingly slow otherwise.

Has anyone else encountered similar issues with Windows 10 PC-to-PC networking?
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 19-Jun-20 19:03:12
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by joconnell:
Has anyone else encountered similar issues with Windows 10 PC-to-PC networking?

Yes, with Symantec, McAfee or any other third party antimalware installed. Do you have that sort of software?

If you don't and are just using Win10 with its built in Defender, then it could be a network card driver issue.

Given the PC to NAS is quick, but PC to laptop is slow, the problem could be the laptop writing to its disk?

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User prlzx
(experienced) Fri 19-Jun-20 20:16:20
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Have you already tried to reset the Windows networking stacks to defaults - I believe it is done via netsh commands?

In the past it was more common for people to tweak various settings for dial-up and then for DSL, in part to compensate for the asymmetry of Internet connections, rather than for general purpose networking / LAN.

But yes it does not surprise me, the BSDs tend to have more mature network stacks and, in common with Linux drivers, there is much less tendency to install things which affect packet processing as much as with Windows, where anti-malware and virtualisation tends to install various software-based filters.

Given that Windows can now be run from a USB stick, that might be another way to test a vanilla setup without having to factory reset the machine. As the iPerf tests are run using RAM and the network, disk speeds won't be a factor.

For file transfer performance, have you tried creating a small RAMdisk on both Windows machines. Old school I know, modern computers tend to have sufficient RAM to easily afford 1GB for temporary downloads and tests.

You could compare Windows file sharing with protocols like FTP and HTTP, to help show whether it's OS or protocol-specific.



prlzx on iDNET: FTTC (VDSL) at ~40Mbps / 10Mbps
with IP4/6 (no v6? - not true Internet)


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Standard User dan_miles86
(newbie) Fri 19-Jun-20 21:06:19
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
Seems quite normal to me. Disable windows defender and firewall and you might see a performance increase.

If its important to you, you could change to 10gbe.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Jun-20 11:17:09
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: dan_miles86] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by dan_miles86:
Seems quite normal to me.

I've seen 900 Mbps between two PCs running Win10 with Defender enabled. Not sure 600 is good, and 1 Mbps is obviously broken!

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Sat 20-Jun-20 11:49:42
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by dan_miles86:
Seems quite normal to me.

I've seen 900 Mbps between two PCs running Win10 with Defender enabled. Not sure 600 is good, and 1 Mbps is obviously broken!


Indeed, I've never needed to adjust any settings in a default Win 10 install in order to get full gigabit speed to my Synology DS918+

To me it looks like it could be an IP conflict
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Jun-20 12:18:24
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robertcrowther:
Indeed, I've never needed to adjust any settings in a default Win 10 install in order to get full gigabit speed to my Synology DS918+
Same with a DS214+.
To me it looks like it could be an IP conflict
I wondered about a broken NIC, but more likely faulty cable!

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Sat 20-Jun-20 12:26:35
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
I doubt it's a cable fault as they managed to get full speed on a Linux install.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Jun-20 13:08:25
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robertcrowther:
I doubt it's a cable fault as they managed to get full speed on a Linux install.
Then its got to be driver. Or some third party security software that may not have fully uninstalled (e.g. demo supplied with the PC).

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Jun-20 13:08:35)

Standard User robertcrowther
(committed) Sat 20-Jun-20 18:17:53
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
As they have said "The performance is so bad that it's much quicker for me to copy my files from the desktop PC to a folder on the NAS, then copy those files from the NAS to my SP4 - copying directly between those two PCs is excruciatingly slow otherwise."

It doesn't look to me like a driver or third party software, it does however show classic symptoms of either an IP address conflict, or I have seen in the past where laptops will still try and use wireless connection even though the ethernet is plugged in
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 20-Jun-20 19:07:48
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robertcrowther:
It doesn't look to me like a driver or third party software, it does however show classic symptoms of either an IP address conflict, or I have seen in the past where laptops will still try and use wireless connection even though the ethernet is plugged in

Yes, good points, and very likely, although Win10 is usually cleverer than that!

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User prlzx
(experienced) Sun 21-Jun-20 11:52:00
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
On Windows 7 and Windows 10 if a computer is connected to the same network by both Wi-Fi and gigabit wired, Windows will prefer and use the wired connection by assigning a better (lower) metric to that network adapter - use the "route print" command to confirm this.

The priorities can be manually re-ordered and some people do this intentionally or inadvertently when trying to solve some other problem, such as if they want to override a wired connection while tethered to their smartphone.

The situation might be different if the wireless channel width is configured so wide and the laptop and AP have enough spatial streams that the link can report a data rate faster than 1Gbps but this is an edge case.

On the IP conflict thing, if DHCP, one or both PCs will release the IP and restart DHCP discovery.
Checking for IP already in use on the network (ARP) before making an offer is part of the protocol, even if the DHCP server doesn't think it has already leased this IP.

Even if manually assigned IPs and conflicting, on the affected computers Windows would normally popup an alert as well as a flag on the network icon in system tray (in older versions at least).

And if there was an IP address conflict they would still have problems copying files to and from the NAS, because the affected computers would be constantly trying to assert "I have the L2 Ethernet address for that IP" (ARP), even if the second computer was not the source or destination of the file copy.


TL:DR (Wi-Fi?) you don't have to guess because you can run the command to check



prlzx on iDNET: FTTC (VDSL) at ~40Mbps / 10Mbps
with IP4/6 (no v6? - not true Internet)

Edited by prlzx (Sun 21-Jun-20 12:12:40)

Standard User Andrue
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 21-Jun-20 12:03:18
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Windows has always been utterly dire when copying large numbers of files (to be fair, other OSes suffer somewhat as well). There appears to be a bad overhead when it comes to finding and opening files. However the raw throughput is usually fine. So if you're copying large numbers of files (especially small files) it is a lot, lot better to compress them to an archive first.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/stor...

---
Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Edited by Andrue (Sun 21-Jun-20 12:05:39)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 21-Jun-20 13:38:27
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by prlzx:
On Windows 7 and Windows 10 if a computer is connected to the same network by both Wi-Fi and gigabit wired, Windows will prefer and use the wired connection by assigning a better (lower) metric to that network adapter - use the "route print" command to confirm this.
Not sure you meant to reply directly to me, but I’ve known this since Windows 3.11 for Workgroups with multiple ethernet adaptors, long before WiFi

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Sun 21-Jun-20 13:38:59)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 21-Jun-20 19:33:05
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Windows has always been utterly dire when copying large numbers of files (to be fair, other OSes suffer somewhat as well). There appears to be a bad overhead when it comes to finding and opening files. However the raw throughput is usually fine. So if you're copying large numbers of files (especially small files) it is a lot, lot better to compress them to an archive first.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/stor...

Or use robocopy with multithread option - that will normally allow you to maximise the network link.

Andrews & Arnold Home ::1 on Draytek 2862ac - Why settle for inferior?
Standard User prlzx
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 01:52:19
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Yes sorry,

I was responding to Robert's suggestions about Wi-Fi and/or IP conflicts however in doing so I was expanding on your comment that "Win10 is usually cleverer than that!" so my reply needed to follow that thread to stay in context for the sake of the OP following the suggestions.

I've viewing in flat mode so usually just bottom posting anyway, but I'll try to make better use of selective quoting and [email protected] hints.



prlzx on iDNET: FTTC (VDSL) at ~40Mbps / 10Mbps
with IP4/6 (no v6? - not true Internet)

Edited by prlzx (Mon 22-Jun-20 01:55:22)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 22-Jun-20 07:33:37
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by prlzx:
I was responding to Robert's suggestions about Wi-Fi and/or IP conflicts however in doing so I was expanding on your comment that "Win10 is usually cleverer than that!" so my reply needed to follow that thread to stay in context for the sake of the OP following the suggestions.

Thanks for the update!. I read somewhere that the speed of the connection would also influence. I remember setting interface metrics.

(I prefer netstat -rn but you get the same table)

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 08:36:26
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by joconnell:
Has anyone else encountered similar issues with Windows 10 PC-to-PC networking?

Yes, with Symantec, McAfee or any other third party antimalware installed. Do you have that sort of software?

If you don't and are just using Win10 with its built in Defender, then it could be a network card driver issue.

Given the PC to NAS is quick, but PC to laptop is slow, the problem could be the laptop writing to its disk?

It's the same issue whether copying files from the laptop to the PC or vice versa - both machines have SSDs so I'd be very surprised if that's an issue.
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 15:04:52
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: robertcrowther] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by robertcrowther:
It doesn't look to me like a driver or third party software, it does however show classic symptoms of either an IP address conflict, or I have seen in the past where laptops will still try and use wireless connection even though the ethernet is plugged in

Wireless on the laptop was switched off so only ethernet connection
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 15:26:55
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
Well there are no less than 7 ethernet adaptors showing when I do ipconfig in a CMD shell, though there's just one wired NIC on my desktop PC. The others are for things like Hyper-V, Neorouter, Kaspersky, NordVPN but only the Hyper-V and Realtek NIC ethernet connectons are enabled, there seems to be nothing I can do about the Hyper-V adaptors unless I uninstall Hyper-V
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 22-Jun-20 15:40:32
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by joconnell:
Kaspersky,

If you can, uninstall. Don't disable, you have to remove.

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User TrevorSP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 22-Jun-20 17:40:10
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
May I ask a stupid question of the OP, please? smile
I certainly don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs.

I had this problem years ago, and I changed my cables pinout to a different way and it worked a treat. I am unable to find the original diagram that I used to carry in one of my cases for future reference, but I found a similar one.

We should all know about T568A & T568B types of pinout, here is a simple three option guide, which looks similar to the one that I used to use!
Hope it helps, certainly worth it if you have the kit. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/696017317397807377/
PLEASE don't confuse this with the common phrase of a "Crossover Cable" as T568A & T568B both have Crossover pinouts!

If you have the kit to do your own wiring of Cat 5e or whatever and some RJ45 males around it may well be worth trying as it definitely worked for me, OR, triggered something in the Drivers or Windows, that made it work much better and faster!
Either, you decide! I still don't know to this day why such a simple change should make such a huge difference, but it did!

I take it you are going straight from one PC/Laptop to another PC/Laptop?
In which case it is the identical problem that I had and this cured it first time!

Regards,
Trevor

BT 80/20 and Mobile phone package. Happy with both
"Aquila non capit muscas uel timet latrantem canem"
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 17:56:32
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: TrevorSP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TrevorSP:
May I ask a stupid question of the OP, please? smile
I certainly don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs.

I had this problem years ago, and I changed my cables pinout to a different way and it worked a treat. I am unable to find the original diagram that I used to carry in one of my cases for future reference, but I found a similar one.

We should all know about T568A & T568B types of pinout, here is a simple three option guide, which looks similar to the one that I used to use!
Hope it helps, certainly worth it if you have the kit. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/696017317397807377/
PLEASE don't confuse this with the common phrase of a "Crossover Cable" as T568A & T568B both have Crossover pinouts!

If you have the kit to do your own wiring of Cat 5e or whatever and some RJ45 males around it may well be worth trying as it definitely worked for me, OR, triggered something in the Drivers or Windows, that made it work much better and faster!
Either, you decide! I still don't know to this day why such a simple change should make such a huge difference, but it did!

I take it you are going straight from one PC/Laptop to another PC/Laptop?
In which case it is the identical problem that I had and this cured it first time!

All my wiring is cat5e terminated according to T568B, I did it myself when the cabling with first installed, tested it using LAN testing hardware and it all works.

I'm going from desktop PC to laptop, indirectly connected via a managed switch.
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Mon 22-Jun-20 17:57:30
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by joconnell:
Kaspersky,

If you can, uninstall. Don't disable, you have to remove.

I'll try that on both machines.
Standard User TrevorSP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 24-Jun-20 17:00:11
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
My bad,
I missed the switch part, I thought you were going directly from one t' other!

Regards,
Trevor

BT 80/20 and Mobile phone package. Happy with both
"Aquila non capit muscas uel timet latrantem canem"
Standard User joconnell
(experienced) Thu 25-Jun-20 14:49:01
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread, I was about to uninstall the AV and anti-malware software from both PCs when I retried the tests and now all seems well. iPerf3 in either direction reports around 950Mbps and copying files from one PC to the other in either direction happens at a speed of around 105Mbps. Just to be clear, I didn't disable or uninstall anything on either PC, though both machines have ben through a Windows update since I first posted here, so maybe that made a difference?

Thanks again smile
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Jun-20 16:46:22
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Re: Network speed between two gigabit ethernet connected PCs


[re: joconnell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by joconnell:
though both machines have ben through a Windows update since I first posted here, so maybe that made a difference?

As one is a MS Surface, that is more likely since these machines receive driver updates through WU.

Good to know the speed is at a normal level!

20 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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