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Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 04-Dec-20 15:13:16
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CAT5 in a FTTP property


[link to this post]
 
We are always being reminded that for a speed test, you should use a wired connection and not WiFi. Seems to make good sense.

But what if, like me, you used CAT5 some years go (2002/3 in my case) to give a wired connection to various devices around the house?

So, if/when I can get FTTP, how much degradation will I see due to a 5 metre length of CAT5 and not CAT6 between the Router and a 24 port Gigabit switch? The Router being connected to the ONT via 50cm of CAT6? To replace that 5 metres of CAT5 would be a right pain.

Very hypothetical at the moment since no info on when FTTP will be available, nor of course at what speed.

Cheers!

Clive

Andrews & Arnold Home::1 FTTC DrayTek Vigor 2762ac Cisco SPA112 and HUAWEI E5776 with O2 Data SIM
Standard User JonRennie
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 15:25:48
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: Ancient_Mariner] [link to this post]
 
No degradation, ethernet either works at full speed or not at all, and over 5m you could use any cable you liked (not that I suggest you do).

wink Comms is hard wink
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 04-Dec-20 16:40:46
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: JonRennie] [link to this post]
 
Are you sure about that ?

I have a ‘flat’ 15m ethernet cable , supplied with a BT TV box some years ago. It will not allow throughput speeds over 100 meg ...... same two end points, and a pukka cable show just shy of 300.

If cat5 is/was OK for any speed, why has cat 6 and 7 been brought out ?


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Standard User brookheather
(member) Fri 04-Dec-20 16:46:36
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I have a ‘flat’ 15m ethernet cable , supplied with a BT TV box some years ago. It will not allow throughput speeds over 100 meg ...... same two end points, and a pukka cable show just shy of 300

Those BT TV ethernet cables are only wired with 2 pairs not 4 so only capable of Fast Ethernet speeds.

Cerberus FTTP + pfSense + UniFi nanoHD
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Fri 04-Dec-20 17:02:41
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: brookheather] [link to this post]
 
If cat5 is/was OK for any speed, why has cat 6 and 7 been brought out ?

You might get gigabit over cat5 but it could be a bit hit and miss.
I have HDMI extenders working over about 20m of cat6. Tried with cat 5 and was iffy on a 10m cable.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 17:29:13
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
You might get gigabit over cat5 but it could be a bit hit and miss.
I have HDMI extenders working over about 20m of cat6. Tried with cat 5 and was iffy on a 10m cable.


I've had read speeds of more than 700Mbps over the LAN when just using a 20 metre cat5e 100% copper ethernet patch cable for testing purposes during an installation...I would think 5 metres of solid core 100% copper cat5 would be adequate for the OP's hypothetical FTTP purposes assuming the positioning of the ONT etc.?

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 04-Dec-20 18:06:44)

Standard User JonRennie
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 17:35:50
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I am sure about that...the comment about 'any' cable was a but tongue in cheek but Cat5 over 5m will be no problem at 1Gbps. I have done it many times.

Ethernet connects at 10, 100, 1000Mbps - you may not get that throughput but a 1Gbps ethernet cannot 'negotiate' down to 300Mbps.

wink Comms is hard wink
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 04-Dec-20 18:23:57
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: JonRennie] [link to this post]
 
Are we talking Cat5 or Cat5e?

if the cable link speed is showing 1000 Mbps then the cable is good.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 04-Dec-20 18:30:27
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by witchunt:
You might get gigabit over cat5 but it could be a bit hit and miss.
I have HDMI extenders working over about 20m of cat6. Tried with cat 5 and was iffy on a 10m cable.

Depends on the length of cat5, but we routinely used cat5e to feed gigabit to the desk in corporate buildings.

Gigabit works fine on 5e in pretty much any domestic environment. Better to buy lengths to fit, with connectors pre applied (with boots to protect the tag) as the usual point of failure is the crimp point. I'm rubbish at crimping, but I do it twice a year, some colleagues can do 50 a day!

HDMI signals can run faster than gigabit, so a better cable is a good investment, especially if you're up to HDMI 1.4 or higher (e.g. 2.0 for 4K).

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM

Edited by jchamier (Fri 04-Dec-20 18:31:07)

Standard User MattL
(newbie) Fri 04-Dec-20 20:29:26
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I have CAT5e at home and as do many of the buildings at work, gives GB to the desktop from the switch and have no issue what so ever.

Them flat cables want putting in the bin and a proper network cable putting in its place.

CAT 6 can deliver 10GB but I think its only at less than 50m distance. CAT5e they recommend a run on no more than 90 to 100m all in from switch to device.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 21:13:56
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: MattL] [link to this post]
 
Only problem sometimes is playback of high bit rate video in the region of, for example, 375Mbps at 1080p 25fps, rather than transferring the file to another device's drive on the LAN where there is a dependence on write speed as opposed to the device's graphics playback capability.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 04-Dec-20 22:09:18
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I have a ‘flat’ 15m ethernet cable , supplied with a BT TV box some years ago.
If its truly flat then it can’t meet the required number of twists per cm, and wouldn’t pass as Category 5.

21 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Standard User tdw42
(member) Fri 04-Dec-20 22:42:59
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Link negotiation does not test the cable quality. If you had a cable made from four-pair CW1308 (equivalent to Cat3) the link would initially negotiate 1000Mbps if both ends advertise they are capable of operating at that rate. Either or both devices may decide to drop the link and stop advertising 1000Mbps to force renegotiation at 100Mbps if there are excessive errors but this is down to the interface drivers.

Most standards are designed to guarantee a certain performance at the worst tolerances of the components, as all the component tolerances are unlikely to all be at their worst you can exceed the guaranteed performance but by an indeterminate amount.
Standard User jabuzzard
(committed) Fri 04-Dec-20 23:22:14
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by witchunt:
You might get gigabit over cat5 but it could be a bit hit and miss.
I have HDMI extenders working over about 20m of cat6. Tried with cat 5 and was iffy on a 10m cable.

Depends on the length of cat5, but we routinely used cat5e to feed gigabit to the desk in corporate buildings.

Gigabit works fine on 5e in pretty much any domestic environment. Better to buy lengths to fit, with connectors pre applied (with boots to protect the tag) as the usual point of failure is the crimp point. I'm rubbish at crimping, but I do it twice a year, some colleagues can do 50 a day!


If they genuinely have just Cat5 cable then it's only good for 100Mbps smile

Originally 1Gbps Ethernet was going to need Cat6 over two pairs. However they then realized that using all four pairs and a slightly enhanced cable aka Cat5e (the 'e' being short for enhanced) and you could run 1Gbps Ethernet over it. That's what won in the market place.

10Gbps Ethernet really needs augmented Cat6 cable aka Cat6a, but it is rated for use on Cat6 as long as you don't have large bundles of cables and only up to about ~50m. For most domestic properties that's fine.

There is now a NBaseT standard that allows 2,5Gbps over Cat5e at the full 100m and 5Gbps at shorter distances. With Cat6 you can get the 5Gbps over the full 100m distance.

Cat7 is not certified by the IEEE for use on any Ethernet standard. In fact it needs special plugs and sockets to be used otherwise you will actually make things worse. Given that there is zero equipment available for purchase that has such sockets it is only use by the the gullible who think because it has a higher number it's better. A fool and their money are easily parted.

Cat8 is similar to Cat7 and needs special plugs and sockets not to make the situation worse. However this time there is an IEEE Ethernet standard for it's use, but it's only for use in a data centre, only for short distances and there are no products on the market for it use. I doubt it will ever get much use as evern 10Gbps over twisted pair is rarer than hen's teeth in a data centre. It's all direct attach twinaxe cables or actual fibre optic, as 10Gbps SFP's are as cheap as chips these, and both use less power.

Most domestic properties Cat6 is the way to go for future proofing. If you live in a mansion then Cat6a makes sense. My pro tip is to spend a little extra and get purple jacketed LSZH stuff. Makes it much easier to identify what the cables are for with a quick visual inspection in the future when you have your head under the floorboards.
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 05-Dec-20 17:05:21
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: JonRennie] [link to this post]
 
I have at least one RJ45 patch lead maybe 2m long which will not run a 1Gbps connection. The cables and RJ45 sockets I installed in 2004 are generally good for 1Gbps connections.

Michael Chare
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 05-Dec-20 18:38:45
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Re: CAT5 in a FTTP property


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Most likely one wire broke or not crimped right so running on just 2 pairs which limits you to 100 Mbps

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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